BBC Master, An appreciation Thread

Discuss and discover all the great games of yesteryear!

Moderators: mknott, NickThorpe, lcarlson, Darran@Retro Gamer, MMohammed

User avatar
Xesh
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:50 pm
Location: Canterbury, Kent

Post by Xesh » Sun May 13, 2007 7:21 pm

Matt_B wrote:The Electron is actually clocked at the same speed. It's just that the video hardware generates so many wait states that you lose half the processing power when executing code from RAM. ROM code runs at full speed though, so BASIC on the Electron is almost as fast as the BBC.
Just had a read of the Advanced user guide for the Elk. It does mention the interrupts, but it also says that in certain modes the processor will slow down to 1MHz. So, in a way, we're both right. :)

User avatar
Lorfarius
Posts: 3599
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:06 pm
Location: Glossop - North West
Contact:

Post by Lorfarius » Mon May 14, 2007 7:23 am

Whoo hoo! Just had an email to say the Master has been posted. I can hardly wait!!
For all your mad retro gaming needs, regular content on a daily basis!

https://www.youtube.com/user/Lorfarius

User avatar
Lorfarius
Posts: 3599
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:06 pm
Location: Glossop - North West
Contact:

Post by Lorfarius » Tue May 15, 2007 3:50 am

Just bought myself a 2 way adaptor type ROM cartridge thingy from Ebay. Its seemed cheap and Im betting they dont come up often so seemed a good investment. So what should I buy next? Besides games are there any handy ROMs I should have?
For all your mad retro gaming needs, regular content on a daily basis!

https://www.youtube.com/user/Lorfarius

User avatar
MikeHaggar
Posts: 4787
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:02 pm
Location: Norway
Contact:

Post by MikeHaggar » Tue May 15, 2007 3:56 am

Oops
Last edited by MikeHaggar on Tue May 15, 2007 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Matt_B
Posts: 5335
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:30 am
Location: 5 minutes from the beach, 30 seconds from the pub

Post by Matt_B » Tue May 15, 2007 4:19 am

BBC/Master Games usually come on disk or tape. ROMs are used for utilities such as the DFS and ADFS disk filing systems, applications such as View and Viewsheet and programming languages like Pascal and BCPL.

The Master came with a whole bunch of these as standard although there are plenty more to collect.

The cartridges aren't that useful as the Master has space to fit plenty of ROMS internally. I guess if you had more than 16, it'd allow you to chop and change them more rapidly, although loading copies of them into sideways RAM from disk is an even more convenient way to do it.

User avatar
Lorfarius
Posts: 3599
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:06 pm
Location: Glossop - North West
Contact:

Post by Lorfarius » Tue May 15, 2007 4:44 am

Matt_B wrote: The cartridges aren't that useful as the Master has space to fit plenty of ROMS internally. I guess if you had more than 16, it'd allow you to chop and change them more rapidly, although loading copies of them into sideways RAM from disk is an even more convenient way to do it.
What's sideways RAM?
For all your mad retro gaming needs, regular content on a daily basis!

https://www.youtube.com/user/Lorfarius

User avatar
Matt_B
Posts: 5335
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:30 am
Location: 5 minutes from the beach, 30 seconds from the pub

Post by Matt_B » Tue May 15, 2007 5:39 am

Lorfarius wrote:What's sideways RAM?
Sideways RAM is RAM that's located outside the main 64K address space. It can be paged in and out as necessary in the same way as the ROMs. The Master 128 has plenty of it, so sticking a ROM image or two in there isn't going to affect the performance of any other applications.

User avatar
Lorfarius
Posts: 3599
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:06 pm
Location: Glossop - North West
Contact:

Post by Lorfarius » Tue May 15, 2007 6:02 am

Matt_B wrote:
Lorfarius wrote:What's sideways RAM?
Sideways RAM is RAM that's located outside the main 64K address space. It can be paged in and out as necessary in the same way as the ROMs. The Master 128 has plenty of it, so sticking a ROM image or two in there isn't going to affect the performance of any other applications.
So its not RAM that you plug into the machine?
For all your mad retro gaming needs, regular content on a daily basis!

https://www.youtube.com/user/Lorfarius

User avatar
GarryG
Posts: 3231
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:33 am
Location: The cold wet bit above England...

Post by GarryG » Tue May 15, 2007 6:29 am

I would recommend getting ‘Repton’, a very good ‘Boulder Dash’ type game.
Oh and ‘Chuckie Egg’ as well.


I remember using the Teletext adaptor for the BBC, but don’t know if this would still work nowadays.

User avatar
Matt_B
Posts: 5335
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:30 am
Location: 5 minutes from the beach, 30 seconds from the pub

Post by Matt_B » Tue May 15, 2007 6:34 am

Lorfarius wrote:So its not RAM that you plug into the machine?
The standard memory layout of the BBC Micro (any model) is 32K RAM and 32K ROM. This fills the entire address space of the 6502. So, any additional RAM is sideways RAM, whether it's installed inside the machine or added externally.

You'll also see references to "shadow" RAM which a special case of using sideways RAM to store the display outside the main address space. Anyway, since the Master 128 has 96 K of shadow and sideways RAM, you shouldn't need to install any extra.

Mozart
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 7:31 pm

Post by Mozart » Tue May 15, 2007 6:36 am

Lorfarius wrote: So its not RAM that you plug into the machine?
Well it is, and it isn't :D

The basic idea behind Sideways RAM is you plonk it in one of the Beeb's ROM sockets which then enables you to use it in the same way as a ROM except that you can continually write and erase images to that RAM as if it were an EPROM (but without the hassle).

However, as it is essentially just a paged area of memory, it could be used to expand the system RAM (which I think is what they did in the BBC B+ and possibly on the Tube(?)).

I'm not sure that there were that many games on the Beeb or on the Master that could take advantage of any added extra capacity, but it was certainly a useful feature if you were into home coding.
Though I Fly Through the Valley of Death ... I Shall Fear No Evil. For I am at 80,000 Feet and Climbing

User avatar
yethboth
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:51 am

Post by yethboth » Tue May 15, 2007 9:48 am

Granny's Garden on the BBC Micro was a great game.

User avatar
Lorfarius
Posts: 3599
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:06 pm
Location: Glossop - North West
Contact:

Post by Lorfarius » Tue May 15, 2007 9:51 am

yethboth wrote:Granny's Garden on the BBC Micro was a great game.
It was also one of the most widely copied games ever created. Yet can I find a copy or original nowadays? Can I buggery.
For all your mad retro gaming needs, regular content on a daily basis!

https://www.youtube.com/user/Lorfarius

User avatar
Xesh
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:50 pm
Location: Canterbury, Kent

Post by Xesh » Thu May 17, 2007 3:10 pm

Mozart wrote:However, as it is essentially just a paged area of memory, it could be used to expand the system RAM (which I think is what they did in the BBC B+ and possibly on the Tube(?)).
Actually sideways RAM is used more for storing ROM images and/or data. It saves using the system RAM and enables more complex programs to be written (the Tube version of Elite). A lot of Master specific games are re-written Beeb versions designed to take advantage of the extra storage space. One that comes to mind is Stryker's run. The Master version had better and more varied graphics as well as longer/more complex levels. :)

Mozart
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 7:31 pm

Post by Mozart » Thu May 17, 2007 5:22 pm

Xesh wrote:
Mozart wrote:However, as it is essentially just a paged area of memory, it could be used to expand the system RAM (which I think is what they did in the BBC B+ and possibly on the Tube(?)).
Actually sideways RAM is used more for storing ROM images and/or data. It saves using the system RAM and enables more complex programs to be written (the Tube version of Elite). A lot of Master specific games are re-written Beeb versions designed to take advantage of the extra storage space. One that comes to mind is Stryker's run. The Master version had better and more varied graphics as well as longer/more complex levels. :)
Ummm... isn't that what I said? Nevermind :D

Did anyone else notice that they never got the frame buffering quite right on Stryker's run, no matter the version, and yet Codename: Droid was silky smooth (possibly with the addition of the notion of screens)? I'd love to hear the development progress between the two :)
Though I Fly Through the Valley of Death ... I Shall Fear No Evil. For I am at 80,000 Feet and Climbing

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests