Retro PC gaming

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SJ_Sathanas
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Re: Retro PC gaming

Post by SJ_Sathanas » Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:14 am

I didn't like the graphics of Doom3. I found the very detailed texture of normal mapping jarred against the obviously very low-polygon shapes of the actual models. You can see it especially in the shape of the heads of any bald characters, such as that scientist fella in the intro of the demo video.

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outdated_gamer
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Re: Retro PC gaming

Post by outdated_gamer » Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:30 am

Well I was firmly in the "graphical effects over polygon counts" camp back in those times, if they made more detailed models (which they had, just not added to the game) even the best PCs would choke on the game so the decision to make them low-poly was made. The whole point of Doom 3 was it's lighting/shadowing engine which covered up those ugly low detail polygons, it was one of the first games to showcase how with advanced effects you can achieve amazing visuals which were also tied to the gameplay itself since they created the tense atmosphere. Doom 3 without it's lighting is really not Doom 3 at all, and while it's cool that even a 3dfx Voodoo 2 can run the game without all effects it's clearly not the same game anymore.

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MattyC64c
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Re: Retro PC gaming

Post by MattyC64c » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:54 am

Doom 3 totally knackered my graphics card. I think I had one of them new graphics cards from ATI, can't remember the model number but I do remember I paid like £300 for it. I've never paid that much for a graphics card since. Not sure what happened, but it used to overheat and it was next to useless in under 12 months. :(

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ArchaicKoala
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Re: Retro PC gaming

Post by ArchaicKoala » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:11 am

MattyC64c wrote:Doom 3 totally knackered my graphics card. I think I had one of them new graphics cards from ATI, can't remember the model number but I do remember I paid like £300 for it. I've never paid that much for a graphics card since. Not sure what happened, but it used to overheat and it was next to useless in under 12 months. :(
It's funny you say that, I purchased a Geforce 6800 just to play Doom 3 at a decent frame rate. It ran great for the first 6 months and then my card starting heavily artifacting :x I'm convinced it was Doom 3 that caused the issue. Interestingly enough, I RMA'd the card and the manufacturer replaced it with a 6800gt as apparently the card I purchased had an unreported issue which caused the card to degrade quickly when under heavy load for long periods of time.

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theantmeister
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Re: Retro PC gaming

Post by theantmeister » Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:35 am

ArchaicKoala wrote:It's funny you say that, I purchased a Geforce 6800 just to play Doom 3 at a decent frame rate. It ran great for the first 6 months and then my card starting heavily artifacting :x I'm convinced it was Doom 3 that caused the issue. Interestingly enough, I RMA'd the card and the manufacturer replaced it with a 6800gt as apparently the card I purchased had an unreported issue which caused the card to degrade quickly when under heavy load for long periods of time.
My brother had a 6800. It sounded like a hair dryer :lol:

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ArchaicKoala
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Re: Retro PC gaming

Post by ArchaicKoala » Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:47 am

theantmeister wrote: My brother had a 6800. It sounded like a hair dryer :lol:
Hair Dryer? He was lucky! Mine sounded like a jet plane! :lol:

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outdated_gamer
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Re: Retro PC gaming

Post by outdated_gamer » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:58 pm

I had a 6800 GS and it didn't really sound that loud to me. A 5800 Ultra though, those were really like hair dryers. :wink:

Aftermarket coolers for graphics cards used to be quite popular back then, such as this Zalman one which I also had at some point.

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SJ_Sathanas
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Re: Retro PC gaming

Post by SJ_Sathanas » Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:25 pm

outdated_gamer wrote:Well I was firmly in the "graphical effects over polygon counts" camp back in those times, if they made more detailed models (which they had, just not added to the game) even the best PCs would choke on the game so the decision to make them low-poly was made. The whole point of Doom 3 was it's lighting/shadowing engine which covered up those ugly low detail polygons, it was one of the first games to showcase how with advanced effects you can achieve amazing visuals which were also tied to the gameplay itself since they created the tense atmosphere. Doom 3 without it's lighting is really not Doom 3 at all, and while it's cool that even a 3dfx Voodoo 2 can run the game without all effects it's clearly not the same game anymore.
I just couldn't get on with it and I realize it's a personal thing. I found it very slow and cumbersome and the only tactic they had was to spawn a bad guy directly in front and behind which became very predictable and ruined any chance of atmosphere. I would instinctively check my back as soon as something appeared ahead and, 9 times out of 10, there was another monster trying to catch me unaware. Nearly always a bloody Imp, too. I just felt there were much better, atmosphere driven games than D3.
I haven't tried it yet but the recent reboot looks much more appealing to me, and much truer to Doom's legacy, though I'm not generally a fan of all-out, "twitch" shooters.

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theantmeister
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Re: Retro PC gaming

Post by theantmeister » Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:51 pm

Doom (2016), despite the stupid name, is probably my game of the year. Doom 3 was good, but nowhere near that good.

I still remember walking into a room where I could see a monster hiding in his little cupboard. I hadn't hit his trigger I guess. It took all the fright out of it for me. Until then I was really enjoying the atmosphere.

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outdated_gamer
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Re: Retro PC gaming

Post by outdated_gamer » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:52 pm

SJ_Sathanas wrote: I just couldn't get on with it and I realize it's a personal thing. I found it very slow and cumbersome and the only tactic they had was to spawn a bad guy directly in front and behind which became very predictable and ruined any chance of atmosphere. I would instinctively check my back as soon as something appeared ahead and, 9 times out of 10, there was another monster trying to catch me unaware. Nearly always a bloody Imp, too. I just felt there were much better, atmosphere driven games than D3.
I haven't tried it yet but the recent reboot looks much more appealing to me, and much truer to Doom's legacy, though I'm not generally a fan of all-out, "twitch" shooters.
Doom 3 went in another direction, it focused on semi-realism and horror. It was very different from the first two games which were really shoot-em-ups in a first-person perspective and with maze-like levels. It's understandable that the majority didn't like that approach too much, but it's what they decided for at the time. And at the time, there were few games that could match it's atmosphere, even though I guess you could call it more "Resident Doom" than a proper successor of Doom II.

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SJ_Sathanas
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Re: Retro PC gaming

Post by SJ_Sathanas » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:53 pm

outdated_gamer wrote:
SJ_Sathanas wrote: I just couldn't get on with it and I realize it's a personal thing. I found it very slow and cumbersome and the only tactic they had was to spawn a bad guy directly in front and behind which became very predictable and ruined any chance of atmosphere. I would instinctively check my back as soon as something appeared ahead and, 9 times out of 10, there was another monster trying to catch me unaware. Nearly always a bloody Imp, too. I just felt there were much better, atmosphere driven games than D3.
I haven't tried it yet but the recent reboot looks much more appealing to me, and much truer to Doom's legacy, though I'm not generally a fan of all-out, "twitch" shooters.
Doom 3 went in another direction, it focused on semi-realism and horror. It was very different from the first two games which were really shoot-em-ups in a first-person perspective and with maze-like levels. It's understandable that the majority didn't like that approach too much, but it's what they decided for at the time. And at the time, there were few games that could match it's atmosphere, even though I guess you could call it more "Resident Doom" than a proper successor of Doom II.
Actually I was going to cite Resi. 4 as a positive. A game that used atmosphere and immersion in a way not seen in the franchise before (and didn't need to hide everything in shadow to do so).
Doom 3 was certainly forward looking, however. The basic game structure could describe 99% of modern FPS (all about the realism) while the reboot apparently goes to the other extreme. Either way, I just didn't like it.

I also hated Deus-Ex 2 and Thief 3, which all released about the same time, and killed my interest in PC gaming.

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outdated_gamer
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Re: Retro PC gaming

Post by outdated_gamer » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:40 pm

SJ_Sathanas wrote: Actually I was going to cite Resi. 4 as a positive. A game that used atmosphere and immersion in a way not seen in the franchise before (and didn't need to hide everything in shadow to do so).
Doom 3 was certainly forward looking, however. The basic game structure could describe 99% of modern FPS (all about the realism) while the reboot apparently goes to the other extreme. Either way, I just didn't like it.

I also hated Deus-Ex 2 and Thief 3, which all released about the same time, and killed my interest in PC gaming.
I wouldn't say most modern shooters are focused on realism, the popular ones are mostly very arcadey and unrealistic. The realistic ones are mostly found on PC (ArmA, Red Orchestra, Squad, Verdun, etc). You are right that Doom feels the best when it's more arcade-like though, it was never really about realism but about massacring hordes of monsters with an arsenal that would make Rambo feel envious. The slower paced Doom 3 was deff. a diversion in the series.

Deus Ex: Invisible War and Thief: Deadly Shadows were hardly representative of PC gaming since they were both designed for a console audience. This came out directly from the producers mouths so I'm not making this up. If you want a more genuine Thief experience, get The Dark Mod, a free Thief-like game made on the Doom 3 engine. I have no interest in Deus Ex personally, but I hear the newer ones aren't that shabby.

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outdated_gamer
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Re: Retro PC gaming

Post by outdated_gamer » Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:36 am

New interesting video how IBM PC outlived all other home computers (sans Apple's Mac which is now also more or less, a IBM compatible):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trt5ibsBeXo


+ a vid showing a 8086 XT PC running "PC Man", a Pac Man clone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aygonAdGCrg


The Intel 8086 was the processor by which the architecture was named after (x86) and is one of the unifying standards on the platform. Interestingly, the 8086 was a 16-bit chip, despite pre-dating the more wide-spread 8088, which was 8-bit. Nowadays, x86 is found in many places, from PCs, Macs to game consoles (both, Xbox One and PS4 use AMD's x86 processors; original Xbox used a x86 one too), but they aren't really present in mobile devices (sans laptops) because ARM is seen as the more power efficient and cheaper alternative. But wherever there is need for high consumer-level processing power, there is x86 at work.

Also of interest - various in-depth vids about the Intel 4004, the first commercial, 4-bit processor which was, more or less, a calculator processor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVD5qKIY6ZM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrBtEeD7B_A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j00AULJLCNo

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outdated_gamer
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Re: Retro PC gaming

Post by outdated_gamer » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:43 pm

One for retro collectors - 600 giant PC game boxes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy8bo6d6fvs

Of course to play these you also want one of these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqucCFtgva0&t=464s

The rest will have to do with GoG.com and Abandonia.com :wink:

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SJ_Sathanas
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Re: Retro PC gaming

Post by SJ_Sathanas » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:24 pm

I'm incredibly nostalgic about about big box releases as I got into pc games just before the DVD style case took over.
I'm not about to start paying lots of money to have them again though.

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