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Re: Yoshis Island - WOW!

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:54 am
by TwoHeadedBoy
Sephiroth81 wrote:
merman wrote: It also used the SuperFX chip.
Indeed - which means it is unlikely to be ever released on Virtual Console due to licensing issues. Its a shame, as I think the GBA release was a slight compromise reading up about it - or does anyone think its as good or better?
This is new information to me... was the Super FX chip a third party thing?

Re: Yoshis Island - WOW!

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:02 am
by Sephiroth81
TwoHeadedBoy wrote:
This is new information to me... was the Super FX chip a third party thing?
I believe it was made by, or licensed to, British company Argonaut Software. Hence why no Starfox or any other SNES game using the chip is on the VC. Sadly.

Re: Yoshis Island - WOW!

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:04 am
by LonDan
Sephiroth81 wrote:
TwoHeadedBoy wrote:
This is new information to me... was the Super FX chip a third party thing?
I believe it was made by, or licensed to, British company Argonaut Software. Hence why no Starfox or any other SNES game using the chip is on the VC. Sadly.
I always thought the reason FX chip games rarely make it to the VC was the complexity of emulating it properly?

Re: Yoshis Island - WOW!

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:17 am
by Sephiroth81
LonDan wrote:
I always thought the reason FX chip games rarely make it to the VC was the complexity of emulating it properly?
I had previously assumed that as well, but Super FX emulation has been nailed for quite some time now. The Wii is more than capable as well, since Snes9x GX emulates all the main SFX games solidly so I'd imagine if a homebrew emulator can do it without much effort, Ninty could too. But sadly it's a licensing issue between Argonaut and Nintendo.

Re: Yoshis Island - WOW!

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:11 am
by pratty
Sephiroth81 wrote:
LonDan wrote:
I always thought the reason FX chip games rarely make it to the VC was the complexity of emulating it properly?
I had previously assumed that as well, but Super FX emulation has been nailed for quite some time now. The Wii is more than capable as well, since Snes9x GX emulates all the main SFX games solidly so I'd imagine if a homebrew emulator can do it without much effort, Ninty could too. But sadly it's a licensing issue between Argonaut and Nintendo.
I suppose Ninty could remake it themselves if they really wanted to, but it's probably not worth the effort at this point. Might as well make an all new game if they were going to that trouble.

I just started this for the first time a few years ago via the GBA version. Really enjoyed it but got distracted and forgot about it, really need to get back to it and finish it off.

Re: Yoshis Island - WOW!

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:37 am
by the_hawk
I never got into Yoshi's Island at the time, I borrowed it off someone & didn't take to it, but then again I was never a big Mario fan.

However I absolutely adore Yoshi's Wooly World so maybe it's worth a revisit.

Re: Yoshis Island - WOW!

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:14 am
by LonDan
Sephiroth81 wrote:
LonDan wrote:
I always thought the reason FX chip games rarely make it to the VC was the complexity of emulating it properly?
I had previously assumed that as well, but Super FX emulation has been nailed for quite some time now. The Wii is more than capable as well, since Snes9x GX emulates all the main SFX games solidly so I'd imagine if a homebrew emulator can do it without much effort, Ninty could too. But sadly it's a licensing issue between Argonaut and Nintendo.
That seems a very odd situation from both parties then. You'd imagine that Argonaut have very little to gain by being obstreperous about licencing. Either that or it's very difficult to get in contact with the licence holder due to them being defunct for a decade.

Re: Yoshis Island - WOW!

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:04 am
by adippm82
LonDan wrote:That seems a very odd situation from both parties then. You'd imagine that Argonaut have very little to gain by being obstreperous about licencing. Either that or it's very difficult to get in contact with the licence holder due to them being defunct for a decade.
Neither Argonaut Games or Argonaut Technologies exist anymore, the former was liquidated in 2006, and the latter became ARC (Argonaut Risc Core), this was acquired by Virage Software in November 1999, they in turn were acquired by Synopsis in 2010.

So the problem is not Argonaut, it is the license for the technology being buried in such a deep legal hole because of buyouts and takeovers, that it is simply not worth Nintendo trying to unpick the legal mess for a handful of games, no matter how good they may be.

Re: Yoshis Island - WOW!

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:13 am
by Antiriad2097
You'd think it'd be easy enough to reverse engineer something for the emulation so they could replace the Argonaut code with their own. It was used in quite a few games, so they have a spread of sales to recoup the costs once they implement it.

Re: Yoshis Island - WOW!

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:23 am
by adippm82
Antiriad2097 wrote:You'd think it'd be easy enough to reverse engineer something for the emulation so they could replace the Argonaut code with their own. It was used in quite a few games, so they have a spread of sales to recoup the costs once they implement it.
The Super FX chip was only used in eight games and the Super FX 2 in only three, and it must be said that most of them were not very good, so they may need two sets of reversed engineered code, and would probably only get much revenue from five of those games at best.

Re: Yoshis Island - WOW!

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:26 am
by Sephiroth81
Antiriad2097 wrote:You'd think it'd be easy enough to reverse engineer something for the emulation so they could replace the Argonaut code with their own. It was used in quite a few games, so they have a spread of sales to recoup the costs once they implement it.
Sounds like probably more work than Ninty would care to do on these (they usually just dump a ROM and thats it, at most they've done some translations and minor alterations to the code). I guess its only really Starfox, Yoshis Island and Stunt Race FX that would be of genuine interest. Yoshis Island they're better off just porting the GBA version to the Wii U VC (which they may have done already, as it sounds like its a solid port). Starfox was amazing in 1993, but its become very obsolete now - more than the majority of SNES games, same for Stunt Race FX. Plus Starfox 64 was always much better and has aged really well.

I'd like to see them all available, but its not super essential, and if anyone MUST play them, they work well on emulators, and Starfox is dirt cheap to buy 2nd hand (not sure about the others). Its a pity that a flash cart hasn't got Super FX chips on them yet as well, but same issue as already discussing about the legal licensing of it.

Re: Yoshis Island - WOW!

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:58 am
by LonDan
adippm82 wrote:
Antiriad2097 wrote:You'd think it'd be easy enough to reverse engineer something for the emulation so they could replace the Argonaut code with their own. It was used in quite a few games, so they have a spread of sales to recoup the costs once they implement it.
The Super FX chip was only used in eight games and the Super FX 2 in only three, and it must be said that most of them were not very good, so they may need two sets of reversed engineered code, and would probably only get much revenue from five of those games at best.
Such a shame. Starfox in its original state, enhanced for the 3DS would be excellent.

Re: Yoshis Island - WOW!

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:00 am
by Darran@Retro Gamer
I think this is going to be the next game I buy (providing I lose some weight this week). I always had it back in the day, but I never really played it. Will aim to rectify that shortly.

Re: Yoshis Island - WOW!

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:15 am
by gman72
I just got this for the DS. Not the new island one but the old SNES one. Cool. :D

Re: Yoshis Island - WOW!

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:24 am
by Sephiroth81
gman72 wrote:I just got this for the DS. Not the new island one but the old SNES one. Cool. :D
How did you manage that? I only thought it was released on the SNES.