Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

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paranoid marvin
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Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Post by paranoid marvin » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:00 pm

Back in the day, when 8 bits were coming to the end of their natural life and we were looking for something to upgrade to, the ST seemed a decent prospect. There were as many games for ST as for Amiga, there was no real noticable difference between them. Plus games wee usually slightly cheaper on ST and the machine itself a couple of hundred pound cheaper - a significant difference back then. It was only really around 88-89 that Amiga games started to become noticeably better, but also when some AAA titles weren't released on Atari's machine at all; the writing was on the wall and it was time to move on.
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Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Post by knight_beat » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:07 pm

General Opulence wrote:
Megamixer wrote: Well in the Retro Gamer mag's "Back to the 90's" section, it is up to around 1998/1999 and still featuring an Amiga magazine in the magazines section. I honestly had no idea that these magazines were still going that late into the 90's. Where on earth did you buy them from?!? Did anybody on here have those issues?

Genuinely interested in how they filled the pages with no new games releases. I'm assuming it was all about public domain, demos and utility programmes.
Amiga Format lasted until 2000, CU Amiga 1998 i think. I used to continue to buy until about 1998 for the cover cds mucking around making songs and video titling.
There's also Amiga Active, written by former CU Amiga staff, which was published until Oct 2001. AA covered the last gasps of the commercial market, including titles such as Wipeout 2097, Payback (a GTA clone), Heretic and other titles written for high-end Amigas.

@MegaMixer Amiga Format, CU Amiga and Amiga Active could be bought in WH Smith, John Menzies and the odd railway station.

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Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Post by killbot » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:27 pm

paranoid marvin wrote:Back in the day, when 8 bits were coming to the end of their natural life and we were looking for something to upgrade to, the ST seemed a decent prospect. There were as many games for ST as for Amiga, there was no real noticable difference between them. Plus games wee usually slightly cheaper on ST and the machine itself a couple of hundred pound cheaper - a significant difference back then. It was only really around 88-89 that Amiga games started to become noticeably better, but also when some AAA titles weren't released on Atari's machine at all; the writing was on the wall and it was time to move on.
Yes, I think the Amiga (and to a lesser extent the ST) benefitted from being seen as the obvious successors to the 8-bit micros. It's easy to forget that consoles just weren't seen as a big deal in the UK until the 16-bit machines appeared; the Master System gained some traction but the NES, despite cleaning up in the US and Japan, didn't make many inroads here. Most people liked micros because games were cheap and plentiful, piracy was a doddle and you could tinker with them and write your own software if you wanted which seems to have been far more of a 'thing' here than in some other countries. So when people were looking to upgrade they generally went with something that offered more of the same, only more powerful. Initially this was the ST - it was cheaper and had more games - but Commodore were the better of the two at marketing and things like doing a deal with Ocean to inclide Batman as a pack-in during the Bat-Mania craze sold a ton of Commodore machines. That was when they started to pull away from the ST, IMO.
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Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Post by knight_beat » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:36 pm

The Laird wrote:I totally agree with you in regards to the ST too, a lot of people seem to talk these days like it never existed. When in fact it was enormously successful and the best selling computer in the UK for a couple of years.
I also agree. The ST was a great machine that introduced many people to 16-bit computing, but is too often dismissed as a poor man's Amiga. I only wish the Falcon had been cheaper and offered better compatibility with the ST. We might have seen the Atari scene lasting for a few more years if it had.

Incidentally, theST Format Shrine is a great website with scans of most issues.

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Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Post by RodimusPrime » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:44 pm

Gigifusc wrote:
RodimusPrime wrote:
Gigifusc wrote:A younger colleague asked me last week what my favourite ever games machine was. The Amiga was my answer. I thought about exactly why that was to explain my answer. I realised of it was because the Amiga was the last bastion of the games computer (I never had an ST so forgive me my clear bias ST fans). So we went from something that was used as both a full computer with KB and mouse to machines that we're used only for gaming. The loss to computer literacy is something that we never recovered from IMO. People of the generation after me didn't have as much knowledge of computers as I did - how to configure them, how the operating systems worked etc.

So that was definitely a part of it. But more than that, the biggest reason why I will remember the Amiga as the best games machine ever is simply because of the breadth and depth of top quality games on it.

The fact is - the Amiga had it all. Gamers today think that 3D was invented by Nintendo or Sony. But the truth is we were playing full open world 3D games years before the N64 and Playstation. The Amiga had full on complex 3D simulations right up to in your face arcade games from pretty much every genre you can name.

Shoot em ups, adventures, platform games, coin ops, flight sim, tank sims, arcade racing, racing simulations, text adventures, point n click adventures, joystick controlled adventures, RTS, puzzle games, cute games, realistic games, RPGs. The Amiga didn't just have all those but it had them in abundance and in high quality game play AND with high quality visuals. Even today you can play Amiga games on emulator and most of them still look great thanks to its high resolution (for that time at least).

Loss of computer literacy, generations not having the knowledge of computers. Really?

Are we going to ignore the many young gamers who get into PC gaming and all the complications that can come with it.
Getting games to run through Steam is pretty easy I'd say. As are the pre patchedExe's you buy from Gog.
There are of course lots of people who are computer literate but for me, the mass market youngsters lack the computer knowledge that we gained as a direct result of consoles and of course the advancement in UI design that makes software very simple to use.
I think you are doing a massive disservice to many youngsters out there creating games, doing Computer aided design work, and editing and creating video content etc.

Loads of young kids interested and learning how to do things with computers. I have a 16 year old nephew who likes to build his own PCs, his brother has learnt himself how to do stop motion videos, and he is only 11.

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Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Post by Matt_B » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:44 pm

paranoid marvin wrote:Back in the day, when 8 bits were coming to the end of their natural life and we were looking for something to upgrade to, the ST seemed a decent prospect. There were as many games for ST as for Amiga, there was no real noticable difference between them. Plus games wee usually slightly cheaper on ST and the machine itself a couple of hundred pound cheaper - a significant difference back then. It was only really around 88-89 that Amiga games started to become noticeably better, but also when some AAA titles weren't released on Atari's machine at all; the writing was on the wall and it was time to move on.
Yeah, the ST definitely started stronger. It's often forgotten that although the Amiga 1000 was a highly innovative machine it was hamstrung by a high pricetag, a lack of RAM and a buggy OS, while the ST was seen as very good value in comparison. Even the Amiga 500 launched at around £200 more than the STFM and it was only as the gap narrowed and gaming fashions tended towards sideways scrollers that the Amiga.

I'd put the tipping point around the release of Shadow of the Beast in 1989. It's a terrible game by most people's standards, of course, but as a tech demo of what the Amiga was capable of it did a very good job. The attractive bundles Commodore UK put together, starting with the Batman pack, did their bit to smooth over the, by then relatively small, price gap between it and the ST too.

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Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Post by skodathegreat » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:52 pm

I loved the Amiga, even though I didn't own one at the time (my older brother had one).

The thing that always stood out was the fantastic sound, especially when compared to my Master System, or the newish Mega Drive.

The grind of the A500 floppy drive (ooo-er missus) is unforgettable, and its great that UAE emulates that too.
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Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Post by Matt_B » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:53 pm

RodimusPrime wrote:I think you are doing a massive disservice to many youngsters out there creating games, doing Computer aided design work, and editing and creating video content etc.

Loads of young kids interested and learning how to do things with computers. I have a 16 year old nephew who likes to build his own PCs, his brother has learnt himself how to do stop motion videos, and he is only 11.
Oh, totally. A friend of mine asked if I could help his ten year old kid out with his computer recently and it turned out he was making game demos with Unity.

That makes a nice change from uninstalling crapware and virus-ridden pirate copies of Photoshop.

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Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Post by OldSkoolCoolFool » Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:53 pm

paranoid marvin wrote:UK forum. Plus it was the first time that we could see games that looked like perfect arcade ports, but in your home; you don't forget that. The shift from 8-16 bit computers cannot be underestimated, and it's by far the biggest shift in audio,visual etc etc quality than at any other time; even NES/MS to SNES/MD was not as great as was Spectrum to Amiga.
Totally agree with this. I would have been about 11 when my friends and I noticed the Amiga and ST and the hype was unreal. As a Spectrum owner looking through multiformat games magazines from the late 80's the Amiga and ST looked like super computers running games that my Spectrum owning friends and I could only dream of. There were absolutely no limits in our heads as to what these machines were capable of.

In the early 90's some of us got ST's, some of us Amigas and some of us got consoles. Although I prefer the ST theres no denying that the Amiga is generally the better games machine with so many multiformat games being superior.
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Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Post by thingonaspring » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:00 am

gman72 wrote: Of course I don't mind you asking, mate.

Funnily enough the reason I purchased the A1200 was because it came with an HD (cant remember the size but I'm guessing it was MB rather than GB) and the chap I purchased it from who was in fact a freelance coder - and still is... he makes a great living - had put a SID player on the desktop and installed loads of SID tunes in the HD. It was a great SID player too as it allowed muting and soloing of individual channels on the fly so you could hear what each track was actually playing, very handy for those of us who like to try our hands at SID remixing. So, Yeah, I certainly didn't buy it for the games... Eventually the SID player stopped working correctly and the Amiga was sold on.
The A500 I had before was used totally albeit briefly as a gaming machine however.
Cheers :D
I think by the time the 1200 was an "affordable" prospect for me, I bought myself my first PC. If I remember correctly, it was a Pentium 1, 75Mhz. :lol:
Never got as attached to that though. I'd love to go freelance, but just can't take the risk with kids and mortgage etc!
I was always vaguely interested in the cd32, but not sure it would ever be worth it, over either a 600 or a 1200 with the modified drive etc.

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Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Post by General Opulence » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:03 am

thingonaspring wrote:
I think by the time the 1200 was an "affordable" prospect for me, I bought myself my first PC. If I remember correctly, it was a Pentium 1, 75Mhz. :lol:
Never got as attached to that though. I'd love to go freelance, but just can't take the risk with kids and mortgage etc!
I was always vaguely interested in the cd32, but not sure it would ever be worth it, over either a 600 or a 1200 with the modified drive etc.
The A1200 lowest price was £299 in 1993, if you couldn't afford that i don't know how you afforded a Pentium 75 which didn't come out until 1994, i doubt you would have got change from £1200+

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Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Post by thingonaspring » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:07 am

General Opulence wrote:The A1200 lowest price was £299 in 1993, if you couldn't afford that i don't know how you afforded a Pentium 75 which didn't come out until 1994, i doubt you would have got change from £1200+
couldn't tell you a year i'm afraid, i went to university in 1996, and a PC was a far more "serious" option to be able to work on, as well.
i think i got it just before then. £299 was a lot for what (seemed at the time) as more of a games machine, than a machine to work on, so i never really looked at it as an option (£299 was essentially an "upgrade" on the amiga i already had). if you see what i mean...

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Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Post by General Opulence » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:10 am

thingonaspring wrote:
General Opulence wrote:The A1200 lowest price was £299 in 1993, if you couldn't afford that i don't know how you afforded a Pentium 75 which didn't come out until 1994, i doubt you would have got change from £1200+
couldn't tell you a year i'm afraid, i went to university in 1996, and a PC was a far more "serious" option to be able to work on, as well.
i think i got it just before then. £299 was a lot for what (seemed at the time) as more of a games machine, than a machine to work on, so i never really looked at it as an option (£299 was essentially an "upgrade" on the amiga i already had). if you see what i mean...
Well in 1996 it of course would have been cheaper, i got my P200 in 1997 for £1200 (with printer woo!) But £299 wasn't that much for a A1200, you could pay more than that getting a decent Soundblaster for the PC!

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Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Post by NorthWay » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:58 am

But as people are pointing out, this is a UK based publication. That should have meant a lower ratio of Amiga vs ST love. (Did I word that correctly?)
I know 2 people who had STs. One of them is a German, and the other is a consultant here at work that I met just this year. OTOH I knew lots of Amiga users, most of which were programming too...

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Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Post by joefish » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:07 am

I wasn't trying to claim the ST sounded better! The Amiga's multi-channel samples were much better, for the time. What I mean is, to play a tune, it stretched or shortened the samples to vary the pitch, and nowadays sounds quite rough when doing so compared to modern synthesised music. It's just ironic that the simpler tones of chip music you might class as 'electronica' today are pretty much unchanged...

As for Psygnosis games, I know they really pushed the Amiga graphics as far as they could go. The problem with the ST versions was, instead of targetting the capabilities of the ST hardware, they just tried to emulate the Amiga's hardware effects in software and failed atrociously. The obvious thing they could have done was have an artist re-draw the graphics in fewer colours to make them quicker to draw and overlay on the ST's screen layout, but they never did. I think only Leander and The Killing Game Show ever got a decent ST version, but both are great demonstrations of what could be done with a bit of care.

I had an ST because I couldn't afford an Amiga, simple as that. By the time I'd finished my degree and could afford something else, the Playstation was out!

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