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Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:35 pm
by joefish
I get that by the end, the Amiga sold more than the ST, but it's as if the ST didn't feature at all reading this forum. Did a lot of people have STs, then pick up an Amiga later, after it was redesigned and offered up cheaper? Or did you all just come into it later, rather than earlier on when an Amiga could cost you as much £200 more than an ST?

I, for one, liked the openness of the ST architecture for programming. There are plenty of Amiga games that certainly look amazing in screen shots. Some of them even look great when moving. Though rarer still are ones that play as well as you might have anticipated. That and some absolutely terrible el-cheapo conversions by Psygnosis of their showcase Amiga titles, make the ST look a lot worse than it was.

I find it funny how people bragged about the Amiga's sound capabilities at the time, yet nowadays appreciate chiptune music more than the over-stretched and off-key sampled sounds that were butchered about to make music on the Amiga.

Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:36 pm
by Megamixer
Rayne wrote:As a 90's kid this whole thread is pretty fascinating. My first system was a Sega Mega Drive, followed my a PS1. I hear all about the SNES vs MD battles, the boutique Neo Geo AES but the Amiga is rarely talked about on gaming sites or forums. It's interesting to see something so, seemingly, universally loved that until recently I always had pegged as an obscurity.
Well in the Retro Gamer mag's "Back to the 90's" section, it is up to around 1998/1999 and still featuring an Amiga magazine in the magazines section. I honestly had no idea that these magazines were still going that late into the 90's. Where on earth did you buy them from?!? Did anybody on here have those issues?

Genuinely interested in how they filled the pages with no new games releases. I'm assuming it was all about public domain, demos and utility programmes.

Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:41 pm
by joefish
I can't remember how long ST Format kept going, but yes, it was little more than a subscriber's pamphlet with a glossy cover and a pile of PD reviews. Though they did keep going on about something called a 'Falcon', and showing the same screenshots of some sort of F-Zero clone over and over.

Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:58 pm
by The Laird
joefish wrote:I can't remember how long ST Format kept going, but yes, it was little more than a subscriber's pamphlet with a glossy cover and a pile of PD reviews. Though they did keep going on about something called a 'Falcon', and showing the same screenshots of some sort of F-Zero clone over and over.
I remember them reviewing Jaguar games too for a while, kept me buying it.

I totally agree with you in regards to the ST too, a lot of people seem to talk these days like it never existed. When in fact it was enormously successful and the best selling computer in the UK for a couple of years.

Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:08 pm
by Sephiroth81
The Laird wrote:
I remember them reviewing Jaguar games too for a while, kept me buying it.

I totally agree with you in regards to the ST too, a lot of people seem to talk these days like it never existed. When in fact it was enormously successful and the best selling computer in the UK for a couple of years.
Is there an easy to use Atari ST emulator that you'd recommend for both PC and other platforms? I remember trying one on the PSP because the Amiga emulator was crap, but it was a bit fiddly.

Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:28 pm
by The Laird
Sephiroth81 wrote:
The Laird wrote:
I remember them reviewing Jaguar games too for a while, kept me buying it.

I totally agree with you in regards to the ST too, a lot of people seem to talk these days like it never existed. When in fact it was enormously successful and the best selling computer in the UK for a couple of years.
Is there an easy to use Atari ST emulator that you'd recommend for both PC and other platforms? I remember trying one on the PSP because the Amiga emulator was crap, but it was a bit fiddly.
I use SainT, very easy to set up and use.

Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:40 pm
by General Opulence
joefish wrote:
I, for one, liked the openness of the ST architecture for programming. There are plenty of Amiga games that certainly look amazing in screen shots. Some of them even look great when moving. Though rarer still are ones that play as well as you might have anticipated. That and some absolutely terrible el-cheapo conversions by Psygnosis of their showcase Amiga titles, make the ST look a lot worse than it was.

I find it funny how people bragged about the Amiga's sound capabilities at the time, yet nowadays appreciate chiptune music more than the over-stretched and off-key sampled sounds that were butchered about to make music on the Amiga.
Psygnosis games in general pushed the Amiga to the limits, there is no way the ST could do have accurate versions of their games, even the STE would struggle, but the ST market was too split by then to bother supporting the STE.
The ST was a decent machine still when used for certain games, single scroll games or 3D polygon games it was good at, but its lack of dedicated gfx hardware made multiplatform games look worse on the ST, even games that looked the same on screenshots didnt play the same, Nitro only had two way scrolling vs four on the Amiga etc The ST had a good run though, i think they both pushed each other along against the consoles in the early days.

I have never liked the chiptune ST music, take something like No Second Prize, take a listen on Youtube vastly different, the Amiga being far superior imo the ST just sounds like a 8-bit Micro with 16-bit graphics, its a weird combination!

Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:44 pm
by General Opulence
Megamixer wrote:
Rayne wrote:As a 90's kid this whole thread is pretty fascinating. My first system was a Sega Mega Drive, followed my a PS1. I hear all about the SNES vs MD battles, the boutique Neo Geo AES but the Amiga is rarely talked about on gaming sites or forums. It's interesting to see something so, seemingly, universally loved that until recently I always had pegged as an obscurity.
Well in the Retro Gamer mag's "Back to the 90's" section, it is up to around 1998/1999 and still featuring an Amiga magazine in the magazines section. I honestly had no idea that these magazines were still going that late into the 90's. Where on earth did you buy them from?!? Did anybody on here have those issues?

Genuinely interested in how they filled the pages with no new games releases. I'm assuming it was all about public domain, demos and utility programmes.
Amiga Format lasted until 2000, CU Amiga 1998 i think. I used to continue to buy until about 1998 for the cover cds mucking around making songs and video titling.

Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:51 pm
by The Laird
I think the STE would have done just fine, look at some of the STE only stuff like Zero 5, Substation and Stardust - very impressive.

Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:36 pm
by PostieDoc
I disagree with joefish about the sound, generally the music and effects are much better in the Amiga version of games than the ST.
I'm another who doesn't get what all the fuss is about chiptune.

Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:49 pm
by Gigifusc
A younger colleague asked me last week what my favourite ever games machine was. The Amiga was my answer. I thought about exactly why that was to explain my answer. I realised of it was because the Amiga was the last bastion of the games computer (I never had an ST so forgive me my clear bias ST fans). So we went from something that was used as both a full computer with KB and mouse to machines that we're used only for gaming. The loss to computer literacy is something that we never recovered from IMO. People of the generation after me didn't have as much knowledge of computers as I did - how to configure them, how the operating systems worked etc.

So that was definitely a part of it. But more than that, the biggest reason why I will remember the Amiga as the best games machine ever is simply because of the breadth and depth of top quality games on it.

The fact is - the Amiga had it all. Gamers today think that 3D was invented by Nintendo or Sony. But the truth is we were playing full open world 3D games years before the N64 and Playstation. The Amiga had full on complex 3D simulations right up to in your face arcade games from pretty much every genre you can name.

Shoot em ups, adventures, platform games, coin ops, flight sim, tank sims, arcade racing, racing simulations, text adventures, point n click adventures, joystick controlled adventures, RTS, puzzle games, cute games, realistic games, RPGs. The Amiga didn't just have all those but it had them in abundance and in high quality game play AND with high quality visuals. Even today you can play Amiga games on emulator and most of them still look great thanks to its high resolution (for that time at least).

Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:09 pm
by RodimusPrime
Gigifusc wrote:A younger colleague asked me last week what my favourite ever games machine was. The Amiga was my answer. I thought about exactly why that was to explain my answer. I realised of it was because the Amiga was the last bastion of the games computer (I never had an ST so forgive me my clear bias ST fans). So we went from something that was used as both a full computer with KB and mouse to machines that we're used only for gaming. The loss to computer literacy is something that we never recovered from IMO. People of the generation after me didn't have as much knowledge of computers as I did - how to configure them, how the operating systems worked etc.

So that was definitely a part of it. But more than that, the biggest reason why I will remember the Amiga as the best games machine ever is simply because of the breadth and depth of top quality games on it.

The fact is - the Amiga had it all. Gamers today think that 3D was invented by Nintendo or Sony. But the truth is we were playing full open world 3D games years before the N64 and Playstation. The Amiga had full on complex 3D simulations right up to in your face arcade games from pretty much every genre you can name.

Shoot em ups, adventures, platform games, coin ops, flight sim, tank sims, arcade racing, racing simulations, text adventures, point n click adventures, joystick controlled adventures, RTS, puzzle games, cute games, realistic games, RPGs. The Amiga didn't just have all those but it had them in abundance and in high quality game play AND with high quality visuals. Even today you can play Amiga games on emulator and most of them still look great thanks to its high resolution (for that time at least).

Loss of computer literacy, generations not having the knowledge of computers. Really?

Are we going to ignore the many young gamers who get into PC gaming and all the complications that can come with it.

Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:19 pm
by killbot
The Laird wrote:
joefish wrote:I can't remember how long ST Format kept going, but yes, it was little more than a subscriber's pamphlet with a glossy cover and a pile of PD reviews. Though they did keep going on about something called a 'Falcon', and showing the same screenshots of some sort of F-Zero clone over and over.
I remember them reviewing Jaguar games too for a while, kept me buying it.

I totally agree with you in regards to the ST too, a lot of people seem to talk these days like it never existed. When in fact it was enormously successful and the best selling computer in the UK for a couple of years.
I did know a couple of ST owners as a kid. It seemed to be toe-to-toe until about 91 or 92 when more and more games started to be Amiga only. Whether that was because the ST couldn't keep up technically by that point or whether it was just that the Amiga was pulling away in terms of user-base I don't know. But the ST was a capable machine, and is attractive now because it's comparatively easy to emulate. I have a lot of time for the ST, I just prefer the Amiga because (as is usually the way with these things) it was what I had at the time.

Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:21 pm
by Gigifusc
RodimusPrime wrote:
Gigifusc wrote:A younger colleague asked me last week what my favourite ever games machine was. The Amiga was my answer. I thought about exactly why that was to explain my answer. I realised of it was because the Amiga was the last bastion of the games computer (I never had an ST so forgive me my clear bias ST fans). So we went from something that was used as both a full computer with KB and mouse to machines that we're used only for gaming. The loss to computer literacy is something that we never recovered from IMO. People of the generation after me didn't have as much knowledge of computers as I did - how to configure them, how the operating systems worked etc.

So that was definitely a part of it. But more than that, the biggest reason why I will remember the Amiga as the best games machine ever is simply because of the breadth and depth of top quality games on it.

The fact is - the Amiga had it all. Gamers today think that 3D was invented by Nintendo or Sony. But the truth is we were playing full open world 3D games years before the N64 and Playstation. The Amiga had full on complex 3D simulations right up to in your face arcade games from pretty much every genre you can name.

Shoot em ups, adventures, platform games, coin ops, flight sim, tank sims, arcade racing, racing simulations, text adventures, point n click adventures, joystick controlled adventures, RTS, puzzle games, cute games, realistic games, RPGs. The Amiga didn't just have all those but it had them in abundance and in high quality game play AND with high quality visuals. Even today you can play Amiga games on emulator and most of them still look great thanks to its high resolution (for that time at least).

Loss of computer literacy, generations not having the knowledge of computers. Really?

Are we going to ignore the many young gamers who get into PC gaming and all the complications that can come with it.
Getting games to run through Steam is pretty easy I'd say. As are the pre patchedExe's you buy from Gog.
There are of course lots of people who are computer literate but for me, the mass market youngsters lack the computer knowledge that we gained as a direct result of consoles and of course the advancement in UI design that makes software very simple to use.

Re: Why are there so many Amiga fans on this forum?

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:32 pm
by Nemesis
Because it was a hugely popular computer in the UK and Europe. Not really much of a mystery tbh.