Atari vs C64 // was: 8-Bit Computer Poll

[TMR]

So thats proof then that the ZX was the best. The best graphics, best sound, best hardware specs etc.

Looking forward to the Worst 8-bit Computer Poll next...........

funny you should say that, I was thinking earlier of starting that one with all the machines mentioned in this thread - all hell will no-doubt break loose as it's likely to really get people on the attack...

[Thinks i can't actually think of a "worst" personally... then again, i don't have a least favourite Doctor, either.

[neuromancer]

[Thinks i can't actually think of a "worst" personally... then again, i don't have a least favourite Doctor, either.

as you wrote that I'm just watching 'an unearthly child' - how's that for retro doctor who!

[TMR]

[Thinks i can't actually think of a "worst" personally... then again, i don't have a least favourite Doctor, either.

as you wrote that I'm just watching 'an unearthly child' - how's that for retro doctor who!

Aired or banging doors? =-)

[arkhan]

Looking forward to the Worst 8-bit Computer Poll next...........

[/quote]

Didnt the spectrum just win it?......oh wait, this is the BEST computer poll.

....oops.

[neuromancer]

Aired or banging doors? =-)

I think I'd better lay off the beers... not quite with you there, but if you're asking is it being broadcast or if I'm watching my own copy, then it's the latter!

[TMR]

Another question then: it appears that these techniques are well known as the names appear in various books and articles I've read recently, but I haven't seen a book or article which defines them (as you have) or provides worked examples. Is this stuff passed on person to person or has it actually been codified somewhere?

i'm not sure if it's been documented anywhere to be honest, there's not even full-time official names for some of this stuff; i picked up the term "compiled sprites" from one of the comp.sys.sinclair / comp.sys.cbm crossposting flamewars a few years ago (i think it was an Amstrad CPC coder who was talking about it) and hadn't heard the phrase before despite having dealt with machines that used software sprites previously. And i worked out unrolling of code and some of the gist of sprite compliation on my own without knowing any terminology, whilst C64 demo coders usually refer to unrolled loops as "speedcode" more often than not...

i mean... the books cover it so theoretically it must be documented somewhere, although i've yet to see somewhere that does. i considered writing something myself since i've done programming tutorials in the past, but the need has never really come up and my own lack of Z80 knowledge prevents me producing examples for the machines where some of the terms originate.

[TMR]

Aired or banging doors? =-)

I think I'd better lay of the beers... not quite with you there, but if you're asking is it being broadcast or if I'm watching my own copy, then it's the latter!

Remember how i hinted that i was a fanboy...? Well, "banging doors" is the unofficial nickname amongst fans and some of the BBC bods i believe for the unaired pilot version of Unearthly Child, called so because, when the Doctor closes the TARDIS doors from the console, one doesn't do what it was supposed to do and bangs against another part of the set a bit; the other noticeable difference is Susan's costume. =-)

[neuromancer]

Aired or banging doors? =-)

I think I'd better lay of the beers... not quite with you there, but if you're asking is it being broadcast or if I'm watching my own copy, then it's the latter!

Remember how i hinted that i was a fanboy...? Well, "banging doors" is the unofficial nickname amongst fans and some of the BBC bods i believe for the unaired pilot version of Unearthly Child, called so because, when the Doctor closes the TARDIS doors from the console, one doesn't do what it was supposed to do and bangs against another part of the set a bit; the other noticeable difference is Susan's costume. =-)

Ha! seems I had better get reading on Outpost Gallifrey...
I have the unaired and the first episode, but haven't watched them both - is there any significant difference?

[TMR]

I have the unaired and the first episode, but haven't watched them both - is there any significant difference?

Apart from Susan's costume and some variation in a couple of lines of dialogue (all in the TARDIS if memory serves) that say how far away from home she and the Doctor are (and the doors of course) no, although everyone does come across as a little more sure of themselves in the aired version.

Worth a watch if you're a bit of an anorak... and i once went to a Doctor Who convention wearing a t-shirt that read "my parents went to Skaro and all they got me was EXTERMINATED" so i think you can guess where i stand. =-)

[neuromancer]

Another question then: it appears that these techniques are well known as the names appear in various books and articles I've read recently, but I haven't seen a book or article which defines them (as you have) or provides worked examples. Is this stuff passed on person to person or has it actually been codified somewhere?

i'm not sure if it's been documented anywhere to be honest, there's not even full-time official names for some of this stuff; i picked up the term "compiled sprites" from one of the comp.sys.sinclair / comp.sys.cbm crossposting flamewars a few years ago (i think it was an Amstrad CPC coder who was talking about it) and hadn't heard the phrase before despite having dealt with machines that used software sprites previously. And i worked out unrolling of code and some of the gist of sprite compliation on my own without knowing any terminology, whilst C64 demo coders usually refer to unrolled loops as "speedcode" more often than not...

i mean... the books cover it so theoretically it must be documented somewhere, although i've yet to see somewhere that does. i considered writing something myself since i've done programming tutorials in the past, but the need has never really come up and my own lack of Z80 knowledge prevents me producing examples for the machines where some of the terms originate.

Ah, ok - thanks for elaborating. I've read De Re Atari and parts of Mapping the Atari, but they aren't really aimed at such techniques which are applicable to basically any machine.

[neuromancer]

I have the unaired and the first episode, but haven't watched them both - is there any significant difference?

Apart from Susan's costume and some variation in a couple of lines of dialogue (all in the TARDIS if memory serves) that say how far away from home she and the Doctor are (and the doors of course) no, although everyone does come across as a little more sure of themselves in the aired version.

Worth a watch if you're a bit of an anorak... and i once went to a Doctor Who convention wearing a t-shirt that read "my parents went to Skaro and all they got me was EXTERMINATED" so i think you can guess where i stand. =-)

[TMR]

Ah, ok - thanks for elaborating. I've read De Re Atari and parts of Mapping the Atari, but they aren't really aimed at such techniques which are applicable to basically any machine.

That's the problem with 8-bits as regards books or any kind of tutorial to be honest; they have to be tailored to the target platform. But usually a trainee programmer is meant to know their way around machine code already, so it might be the general 6502 or Z80 books that cover it... i learnt from a VIC machine code book and the C64 Programmer's Reference Guide personally. =-)

[neuromancer]

Ah, ok - thanks for elaborating. I've read De Re Atari and parts of Mapping the Atari, but they aren't really aimed at such techniques which are applicable to basically any machine.

That's the problem with 8-bits as regards books or any kind of tutorial to be honest; they have to be tailored to the target platform. But usually a trainee programmer is meant to know their way around machine code already, so it might be the general 6502 or Z80 books that cover it... i learnt from a VIC machine code book and the C64 Programmer's Reference Guide personally. =-)

depends on the job I guess - I've been a professional programmer for years but was never expected to know any assembler. I'm just learning it because I always wanted to know how it was done (being a code in basic (and variants of it) on the '81, Speccy, Atari 8 bit, BBC micro and ST) - everything I do commercially is a far cry from assembler - the closest I have come recently is C on PDAs, but that's rare.

[Emperor Fossil]

hmmmm , that ip looks familiar gtsamour, your the one who's voted 9 times in the last hour for the spectrum. cheating aye. typical

you could of voted for the bbc

Voting for the Speccy 9 times (actually, it was more than that...) is hardly cheating.
A machine like that deserves +100 votes

Anyway the mag was already out so it didn't make any difference. Thats why I did it and made it obvious it was the same person that voted (similar usernames). heheeeeee

Oh yes of course, you did it cos the mag was already out. That's why on WoS you urged speccy fans to "DO SOMETHING!!!!!!! VOTE so that we can ditch this C64 s***"

And then when Smila pointed out that the mag is out and the speccy won, you replied: "Forgive me I'm a bit uninformed. What mag?"

heheeeeeeee, indeeed.

[TMR]

Oh yes of course, you did it cos the mag was already out. That's why on WoS you urged speccy fans to "DO SOMETHING!!!!!!! VOTE so that we can ditch this C64 s***"

And then when Smila pointed out that the mag is out and the speccy won, you replied: "Forgive me I'm a bit uninformed. What mag?"

That's the problem with these Speccy people, they take polls like this far too seriously! [Smiles sweetly =-]