Atari vs C64 // was: 8-Bit Computer Poll

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Best 8-Bit

ZX Spectrum
109
41%
Commodore 64
121
46%
Amstrad CPC 464
25
10%
BBC Micro
8
3%
 
Total votes: 263

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Sega2006
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Post by Sega2006 » Wed May 09, 2007 2:11 pm

I take it he never saw a BBC then :wink:
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Antiriad2097
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Post by Antiriad2097 » Wed May 09, 2007 2:18 pm

Pengwin wrote:
Antiriad2097 wrote:I own both an original Oric-1 and an Atmos, and I'd have to say I prefer the stylings of the original. Nice clicky keyboard compared to the Speccy fro typing, but retaining a nice feel for games. A neat halfway house between dead flesh and full keyboard.

The Atmos keyboard is a 'proper' keyboard for typing, but its rubbish for games and the red keys look garish.
The Atmos keyboard was rubbish for games??? Do I sense another argument brewing? :wink:
No argument to be made. It was rubbish for games. Fantastic for typing, but when gaming the keys were too big with too much travel, it slowed the response time. Same as with any other system with a proper keyboard, C64, BBC and TI-99 included
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Post by oswald » Wed May 09, 2007 2:28 pm

neuromancer wrote:
gury wrote:This is link is not for you Oswald, but for others to check. I didn't request for your opinion and making it inferior again and saying how superior C64 is, which is quite untrue. But that doesn't make sense anyway. This link is just here for others.

Yeah neuromancer, it's fine to see various types of images for Atari.
I've checking out an online copy of De Re Atari - it's nice to see how the ANTIC actually works (I'd also like do the same for the VIC-II if anyone can point me in the direction of a good book covering it)

I'm tempted to jump from z80 assembler over to 6502C as the Speccy's screen memory is all over the place!
be warned that this is as indepth as possible, explaining all unexposed inner counters, shift registers, flip flops, and the whole underlying mechanism on a level where all VIC tricks may be explained with them. The vic is more hardwired, and is a less clean design than other 8 bits, but I see this as an advantage, as it manages to incorporate the best from the various present designs at that time, also the wast number of possible hardware trickery comes from the hardwired design. I really thank god that the number of displayable colors on the c64 is not parallel with the pixel size :)


https://sh.scs-trc.net/vic/

wikipedia for a more brief doc:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIC-II

"About 3/4 of the chip surface is used for the sprite functionality." and we're still able to display nicer gfx than other 8 bits ;)

on commodore.ca you may find a nice article about designing the c64, including the VIC, its worth be reading. I cant give you a direct link as it seems to be down atmo.

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Post by oswald » Wed May 09, 2007 2:32 pm

Antiriad2097 wrote:
Pengwin wrote:
Antiriad2097 wrote:I own both an original Oric-1 and an Atmos, and I'd have to say I prefer the stylings of the original. Nice clicky keyboard compared to the Speccy fro typing, but retaining a nice feel for games. A neat halfway house between dead flesh and full keyboard.

The Atmos keyboard is a 'proper' keyboard for typing, but its rubbish for games and the red keys look garish.
The Atmos keyboard was rubbish for games??? Do I sense another argument brewing? :wink:
No argument to be made. It was rubbish for games. Fantastic for typing, but when gaming the keys were too big with too much travel, it slowed the response time. Same as with any other system with a proper keyboard, C64, BBC and TI-99 included
sure... cheap ass keyboard is better then a proper one. :shock: who will believe you other than the rest of the fellow worshippers ? :lol:

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Post by oswald » Wed May 09, 2007 3:45 pm

neuromancer wrote:
gury wrote:Indeed, this old retro stuff is great.

New atari 8-bit pictures on
http://atari.online.pl/v01/index.phtml? ... ct=nowinki

Very nice!
Thanks Gury, there's some top pictures there, some showing off Atari's wide variety of hues (for an 8 bit machine it's wide ;) )

I'll never forget seeing a digitised photo of a windsurfer using all the colours the Atari could muster - I'd never seen a home machine do this before and the impression it made has stuck with me to this day (sometimes whilst watching a dvd and considering that this is basically an evolution of the technology which I first witnessed on my 130xe)
http://www.commodore.ca/gallery/magazin ... design.htm

here's the mentioned article, it not only gives deep insight into the design, but also gives you a feel what decisions and why was taken.

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Xesh
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Post by Xesh » Wed May 09, 2007 7:56 pm

Antiriad2097 wrote:No argument to be made. It was rubbish for games. Fantastic for typing, but when gaming the keys were too big with too much travel, it slowed the response time. Same as with any other system with a proper keyboard, C64, BBC and TI-99 included
I've never had any problem with my Elk, or the Beeb, keyboard. I suppose it's what you get used to. I never could get on with my mate's Speccy keyboard. The feel of the keys and the travel always felt wrong to me but he said the same about my Elk (so we're even then). :)

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Post by TMR » Wed May 09, 2007 8:39 pm

Xesh wrote:I've never had any problem with my Elk, or the Beeb, keyboard. I suppose it's what you get used to. I never could get on with my mate's Speccy keyboard. The feel of the keys and the travel always felt wrong to me but he said the same about my Elk (so we're even then). :)
Keyboard... keyboard... don't remind me, it'll come to me... oh yes! That thing you use if you don't have a couple of 9 pin digital joystick ports as standard, that's the bunny! =-)

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Post by Xesh » Wed May 09, 2007 8:42 pm

TMR wrote:Keyboard... keyboard... don't remind me, it'll come to me... oh yes! That thing you use if you don't have a couple of 9 pin digital joystick ports as standard, that's the bunny! =-)
I did have some of those but with most games I could outplay my mates using the keyboard. :wink:

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Post by THB » Thu May 10, 2007 12:10 am

1. Commodore 64
2. Atari 8-bit range
3. MSX
4. Apple IIe
5. Amstrad CPC

Only computers I have seen and used in the flesh in those days, from what i have seen from the speccy I am unimpressed, must be just a UK and russian thing because it looks, sounds and plays like absolute garbage from an outsiders perspective.

I am Aussie by the way and no one I knew had a spectrum, lucky souls.

:twisted:

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Post by gury » Thu May 10, 2007 3:16 am

You are welcome to visit http://gury.atari8.info/

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Post by neuromancer » Thu May 10, 2007 4:49 am

oswald wrote:
neuromancer wrote:
gury wrote:This is link is not for you Oswald, but for others to check. I didn't request for your opinion and making it inferior again and saying how superior C64 is, which is quite untrue. But that doesn't make sense anyway. This link is just here for others.

Yeah neuromancer, it's fine to see various types of images for Atari.
I've checking out an online copy of De Re Atari - it's nice to see how the ANTIC actually works (I'd also like do the same for the VIC-II if anyone can point me in the direction of a good book covering it)

I'm tempted to jump from z80 assembler over to 6502C as the Speccy's screen memory is all over the place!
be warned that this is as indepth as possible, explaining all unexposed inner counters, shift registers, flip flops, and the whole underlying mechanism on a level where all VIC tricks may be explained with them. The vic is more hardwired, and is a less clean design than other 8 bits, but I see this as an advantage, as it manages to incorporate the best from the various present designs at that time, also the wast number of possible hardware trickery comes from the hardwired design. I really thank god that the number of displayable colors on the c64 is not parallel with the pixel size :)


https://sh.scs-trc.net/vic/

wikipedia for a more brief doc:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIC-II

"About 3/4 of the chip surface is used for the sprite functionality." and we're still able to display nicer gfx than other 8 bits ;)

on commodore.ca you may find a nice article about designing the c64, including the VIC, its worth be reading. I cant give you a direct link as it seems to be down atmo.
Excellent, thanks for the links Oswald

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Post by neuromancer » Thu May 10, 2007 4:52 am

Page 6 - I used to subscribe to that, great magazine

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Pengwin
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Post by Pengwin » Thu May 10, 2007 7:11 am

Antiriad2097 wrote:No argument to be made. It was rubbish for games. Fantastic for typing, but when gaming the keys were too big with too much travel, it slowed the response time. Same as with any other system with a proper keyboard, C64, BBC and TI-99 included
I'm not going to argue with you. There are so few so us Oric users on here we can't afford to argue amongst ourselves. Let's leave that to the C64 owners :wink:

Seriously though, I used an Oric-1 before I got my Atmos and being interested in programming I found it a pain to use. The Atmos keyboard was a blessing for the line of computers (IMHO), it allowed the Oric to become a more srious machine, unfortunately, it didn't really achieve that status.
Last edited by Pengwin on Thu May 10, 2007 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Pengwin » Thu May 10, 2007 7:13 am

I have cover scans of the original Atari User magazines on my site (http://www.krazypengwin.co.uk/atariuser.php), I am in the process of listing the contents and then I may scan the pages in, if I have the time.

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Post by neuromancer » Thu May 10, 2007 7:28 am

oswald wrote:
neuromancer wrote:
gury wrote:Indeed, this old retro stuff is great.

New atari 8-bit pictures on
http://atari.online.pl/v01/index.phtml? ... ct=nowinki

Very nice!
Thanks Gury, there's some top pictures there, some showing off Atari's wide variety of hues (for an 8 bit machine it's wide ;) )

I'll never forget seeing a digitised photo of a windsurfer using all the colours the Atari could muster - I'd never seen a home machine do this before and the impression it made has stuck with me to this day (sometimes whilst watching a dvd and considering that this is basically an evolution of the technology which I first witnessed on my 130xe)
http://www.commodore.ca/gallery/magazin ... design.htm

here's the mentioned article, it not only gives deep insight into the design, but also gives you a feel what decisions and why was taken.
That's an interesting article. Funny how both Sinclair and Commodore designed down to a price, but the machines are so different. The usual problem of American products costing the effectively the same in pounds as in dollars (rather than actually being affected by the exchange rate) seems to have applied!

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