Atari vs C64 // was: 8-Bit Computer Poll

Discuss and discover all the great games of yesteryear!

Moderators: mknott, NickThorpe, lcarlson, Darran@Retro Gamer, MMohammed

Locked

Best 8-Bit

ZX Spectrum
109
41%
Commodore 64
121
46%
Amstrad CPC 464
25
10%
BBC Micro
8
3%
 
Total votes: 263

User avatar
dr_bob
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:44 am
Location: Dublin,Ireland

Post by dr_bob » Fri May 04, 2007 8:08 pm

The Atari 800xl was my first proper computer , so I'll always hold a torch for it .It was /is a great machine and had a collection of rather excellent games etc .
It seemed to have a fair presence in Ireland , possibly as Atari was based here for a long time.(And I've very fond memories of buying games for it[ZYBEX! draconus!!] and buying mags like Page 6 and all)So in ireland anyway the core four wouldnt have had a BBC , but had an atari as well
But , as is pointed out there just werent any games /conversions available for it after the mid eigthies probably as it had a very small userbase in the U.k. etc ,and the managemnet of Atari seemed to only want to push the rubbish consoles and the ST , so it pretty much died a death , I sold mine with a collection of about 50 odd games and bought a c64 , not as the commy was a better machine but becuase it was easy to get games for .
I'd love to be able to get my hands on an atari 800xl today
Also if you ever get a chance - check out the "drunk chessboard" demo - its as far as I'm aware run on a bog standard atari 800, and has some awesome 3d etc effects.

User avatar
Emperor Fossil
Posts: 1705
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 7:23 pm
Location: Already rockin the Christmas cap, WOOOOH!

Post by Emperor Fossil » Fri May 04, 2007 11:03 pm

gury wrote:I will post interesting links here, of course. And I will also show you many games, which are better on Atari then Commodore 64.
This kind of puzzles me. Every now and then I come across someone hailing the Atari 8-bit machines to be some kind of treasure trove of gaming delight with fantastic capabilities, and so off I go looking for screenshots of games I can't seem to find any. All I can find are early-mid '80s Atari 7800 games, which range from fairly primitive looking to decent.

When people talk about Atari 8-bit machines, they're usually referring to what... the 800? The 800XL? The 1200XL? There seems to be like a dozen different models. Is there a site with screenshots of games for these things that I can check out? Never let it be said I'm not open to new experiences. :wink:

I checked Mobygames, but under the Atari 8-bit section the most impressive looking game I've found so far is international karate.... which looks like the c64 version.

StyleCHM
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 12:24 am

Post by StyleCHM » Sat May 05, 2007 12:45 am

gury wrote: Star Raiders got honoured. Such a game is simply impossible on C64, because of lack of speed. Atari has all it needs.
You tried to write Star Raiders on c64 and failed?

This sounds like a statement of faith, no of fact.

If youre talking the same Star Raiders I know (from A2600 with its own keypad controller) then I think you're a little off :)

oswald
Posts: 652
Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 7:55 am

Post by oswald » Sat May 05, 2007 2:28 am

gury wrote:O, I see, C64 people. I have so much links to show, but I will put it on hold, because I am the only one Atarian actively (for 2 days) here and I will step down. Actually I have more links for pics and great demos, but I would make C64 inferior machine and I don't like to make people depressive.

About the games... Atari wins big! And as I said before, the numbers doesn't count (userbase, commercial games, demos...) The community counts... And Atari scene is very alive and kicking!
maybe there's a reason why is the atari users number lower here? :)

about the games... Atari looses big. Atari game market died in early 80s, which leaves you with games whose c64 versions on the c64 are considered as below or about average. Not because the c64 versions are worse, but because the c64 had seen much better ones later.

and fact is that because of the video/sound capabilities of the atari these games can not be done on the same quality on it.

some of the finest games on the c64, ingame screenshots, the atari couldnt even display the majority of these shots even as still images, while most of these games runs at 50fps on a c64:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


coming back to the sid chip, any pokey music played by orchestra? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sVPK7dX2-c

that shows some level of love&respect towards the sid's capabilities innit?

User avatar
Emperor Fossil
Posts: 1705
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 7:23 pm
Location: Already rockin the Christmas cap, WOOOOH!

Post by Emperor Fossil » Sat May 05, 2007 2:52 am

oswald wrote:some of the finest games on the c64, ingame screenshots, the atari couldnt even display the majority of these shots even as still images, while most of these games runs at 50fps on a c64:

(broken images)
Images are broken. Lemon doesn't allow hotlinking I'm afraid.

oswald
Posts: 652
Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 7:55 am

Post by oswald » Sat May 05, 2007 4:27 am

Emperor Fossil wrote:
oswald wrote:some of the finest games on the c64, ingame screenshots, the atari couldnt even display the majority of these shots even as still images, while most of these games runs at 50fps on a c64:

(broken images)
Images are broken. Lemon doesn't allow hotlinking I'm afraid.
argh, the images works for me... probably needs a user login, or that they are already cached at me :(

User avatar
Dudley
Posts: 8716
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:53 pm
Contact:

Post by Dudley » Sat May 05, 2007 5:08 am

Or they were already cached in your browser.
Yesterzine - The Literal Magazine Show
http://yesterzine.co.uk | @Yesterzine on Twitter | yesterzineshow@gmail.com

User avatar
Opa-Opa
Posts: 4304
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:35 pm
Location: Kent UK
Contact:

Post by Opa-Opa » Sat May 05, 2007 5:34 am

Dudley wrote:I would imagine this'll go the same as the Retro Fusion version and the C64 Mafia will stage a mass forum invasion.
I'm so glad this never happened and the poll is a good representation of how the fourm/magazine readers feel... ;)

User avatar
SirClive
Posts: 20261
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:25 pm
Location: Planet Sinclair
Contact:

Post by SirClive » Sat May 05, 2007 5:35 am

yes, the difference here is that you have to register before you can vote.
Image

Graz
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 2:29 pm
Location: Bognor Regis

Post by Graz » Sat May 05, 2007 6:04 am

Some nice static images, but that seems to be about it. It only reinforces my memories about playing on the C64. Nice loading pic, and great tunes, but little else. Its the reason why my C64 owning pal kindly asked if he could borrow my Speccy 128 and actually play some decent games.

We'd also both buy the same games for our respective machines, and make comparrisons. 9 times out of 10, the Speccy would win outright. He eventually gave up buying games for his machine, and hung on to the Speccy for a while longer.

When the C64 gets it right, it's brilliant... But it seldom happens.
Unal Nathrakh, Urthvas Bethad, Dokh'jel Dienvae.

User avatar
Emperor Fossil
Posts: 1705
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 7:23 pm
Location: Already rockin the Christmas cap, WOOOOH!

Post by Emperor Fossil » Sat May 05, 2007 6:26 am

Graz wrote:Some nice static images, but that seems to be about it. It only reinforces my memories about playing on the C64. Nice loading pic, and great tunes, but little else.
Yeah... stupid c64 with its juddery scrolling and jerky software driven sprites... ...OH WAIT!

Really, the bulk of c64 games look better in motion than speccy games do. But as it happens I'm after some good speccy games to play in zxadvance, so I'd open to hearing some of these examples where the speccy version of a game beats the c64 version outright. I know there are a couple. The speccy usually does a decent job with 3d vector games and isometric jobbies. Some of the racing games aren't too bad either, provided monochrome graphics don't bother you.

User avatar
neuromancer
Posts: 1581
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:04 pm
Location: /dev/null
Contact:

Post by neuromancer » Sat May 05, 2007 6:45 am

dr_bob wrote: Also if you ever get a chance - check out the "drunk chessboard" demo - its as far as I'm aware run on a bog standard atari 800, and has some awesome 3d etc effects.
Drunk Chessboard is a really impressive piece of coding. It's one of the demos I alluded to in an earlier post - I was blown away by it when a colleague introduced it to me a couple of years ago.

I've never owned a C64, although a lot of friends had them (and a lot of others had Speccys). I've not had any direct exposure to the C64 demo scene (although I have a collection of Amiga demos on DVD and on emulators)

Whilst this debate is raising some very fascinating technical data regarding the core hardware and the effects which can be obtained from it, it's a shame it has taken the form of a muted argument. Unfortunately, as others have said, the Atari 8bits were never huge in the UK. I was only one of a handful of people I knew who owned them; the scene was massive in America and in Germany though.

No doubt the debate will rage on, but I'm happy to be amazed and impressed by the incredible audio and visual demos devised on machines that are no spring chickens.

This highlights an aspect of computers which has been lost to a degree with the rise of the consoles and pcs with graphics capabilities that were only in super-computer territory not so long ago. Machines used to have long lifespans; during this time (and beyond) coders were able to hone their skills, optimising routines, learning *exactly* how the hardware operated and extracting every last ounce of power from the available resources.

The shining example of this for me (as it was the first I witnessed) was the games from Software Farm for the ZX81 which managed to turn the 81's character-based graphics into a fully bitmapped display - effectively the machine became a black and white Spectrum. It was an unexpected, astonishing accomplishment - almost like you loaded up the cassette and it rebuilt the hardware (trust me, as a ten year old kid I was incredulous)

The Saturn could well have been one of the last machines to harbour latent power which wasn't evident until the coders learned to harness the unique capabilities available (witness the amazing leap from Virtua Fighter to Virtua Fighter 2) - suddenly a machine that looked inferior to the Playstation was able to produce effects that Sony's machine couldn't touch. It's all about learning the system and directing the available power at a suitable target...

There's no need (and it's probably no longer possible) for programmers to get close to the metal, to learn the chips inside out - with new hardware being churned out constantly, if a routine isn't quite fast enough you've got the option of waiting for a faster processor, more cores, more pipelines, more ram...

...until Microsoft launches a new O/S and chews up all the power!

markstclair2010
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 3:58 pm

Post by markstclair2010 » Sat May 05, 2007 7:33 am

It only reinforces my memories about playing on the C64. Nice loading pic, and great tunes, but little else. Its the reason why my C64 owning pal kindly asked if he could borrow my Speccy 128 and actually play some decent games.
What a load of ____. These MOVING in-game pictures clearly show C64 is the better machine, technologically. (That Spectrum image looks as bad as the old Atari VCS/2600 version!!!!) The Commodore 64 had some of the best simulations - Red Storm Rising, Silent Service, F15 Strike Eagle. It was basically a videogame system with a keyboard (so I could type book reports). I loved the C64.

The only 8-bit system that is "better for games" than the C64 is the Sega MS (since it was developed in the late 80s using the latest technology).
Image Image
Emperor Fossil wrote:Every now and then I come across someone hailing the Atari 8-bit machines to be some kind of treasure trove of gaming delight with fantastic capabilities, and so off I go looking for screenshots of games I can't seem to find any. All I can find are early-mid '80s Atari 7800 games, which range from fairly primitive looking to decent.
The Atari computers were eventually repackaged as Atari 5200. So if you see 5200-screen shots, then you are seeing what the old Atari 400/800 computers could do. Link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_5200 ----- Ataris had good Video and Sound chips, but they were developed during the 1970s. So they don't look or sound as good as the video/sound found in 1980s machines (C=64, NES, Sega MS).


STAR RAIDERS:

If my lowly Atari 2600 (1977) could handle Star Raiders, I'm sure later computer models could. Although SR was my favorite game of that time period, it was later eclipsed by the vector-based game Elite. I spent well over 100 hours on that game!!!!
Last edited by markstclair2010 on Sat May 05, 2007 8:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Emperor Fossil
Posts: 1705
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 7:23 pm
Location: Already rockin the Christmas cap, WOOOOH!

Post by Emperor Fossil » Sat May 05, 2007 7:54 am

neuromancer wrote:The Saturn could well have been one of the last machines to harbour latent power which wasn't evident until the coders learned to harness the unique capabilities available (witness the amazing leap from Virtua Fighter to Virtua Fighter 2) - suddenly a machine that looked inferior to the Playstation was able to produce effects that Sony's machine couldn't touch. It's all about learning the system and directing the available power at a suitable target...
I'm curious to see how the 360 and the ps3 fare over time. With their multi-core jiggerypokey and cell processors, perhaps we'll experience a flashback to the days of machines displaying increasingly fancy new tricks during their lifetimes as programmers come to grips with the hardware.

oswald
Posts: 652
Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 7:55 am

Post by oswald » Sat May 05, 2007 9:00 am

Graz wrote:Some nice static images, but that seems to be about it.
not those are ingame shot of many 50fps games. maybe show something similar your machine can do instead of telling us stories about your imaginary c64 friend. but you will fail to do that.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests