Best 16-bit Machine?

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What is your favourite?

PC Engine/TurboGrafx
2
2%
DOS PC
3
3%
Super Nintendo/Famicom
22
25%
Commodore Amiga
29
33%
Atari Lynx
1
1%
Sega Mega Drive/Genesis
21
24%
Apple Mac
0
No votes
SNK Neo Geo
3
3%
Atari ST
3
3%
Other?
4
5%
 
Total votes: 88

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nakamura
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Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Post by nakamura » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:10 pm

Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:With regards to the Amiga.

I grew up in arcades, so my favourite games were all arcade based, with a particular love for shoot-em-ups.
I graduated to the Master System and then fell into the SNES and Mega Drive as they both offered me the types of games I craved.

The Amiga by comparison typically had ropey arcade conversions, not enough buttons, but more importantly, games that simply didn't stimulate me.
I loved playing Eye Of The Beholder 1 and 2, Monkey Island and a few others. But I soon realised that aside from those, the real games I enjoyed playing simply weren't as good on the Amiga. Yes you got the occasional good example (Rainbow Islands), but not enough for me, and I regretted trading in my American SNES for it.

Now I don't hate the Amiga, far from it, I'm just looking at it from a purely selfish viewpoint. It simply doesn't offer enough of the games I enjoy playing. I've still played and owned plenty of great games that originated on the Amiga and ST first, but I really didn't like the load times, disk swapping and all the other faff associated with the home systems of the time.
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theantmeister
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Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Post by theantmeister » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:32 pm

nakamura wrote:I always enjoy this story! :D
Schadenfreude?

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OldSkoolCoolFool
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Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Post by OldSkoolCoolFool » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:36 pm

I'm not surprised the Amiga is getting such a good response. Most Amiga owners had huge (mostly pirated) game collections and wouldn't ever be able to own such a huge library of games for any console, even if they could afford it. I can't argue certain games and genres worked better on consoles but the opposite is also true.
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Hiro
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Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Post by Hiro » Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:02 am

Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:With regards to the Amiga.

I grew up in arcades, so my favourite games were all arcade based, with a particular love for shoot-em-ups.
I graduated to the Master System and then fell into the SNES and Mega Drive as they both offered me the types of games I craved.

The Amiga by comparison typically had ropey arcade conversions, not enough buttons, but more importantly, games that simply didn't stimulate me.
I loved playing Eye Of The Beholder 1 and 2, Monkey Island and a few others. But I soon realised that aside from those, the real games I enjoyed playing simply weren't as good on the Amiga. Yes you got the occasional good example (Rainbow Islands), but not enough for me, and I regretted trading in my American SNES for it.

Now I don't hate the Amiga, far from it, I'm just looking at it from a purely selfish viewpoint. It simply doesn't offer enough of the games I enjoy playing. I've still played and owned plenty of great games that originated on the Amiga and ST first, but I really didn't like the load times, disk swapping and all the other faff associated with the home systems of the time.
Fair enough. And you'll happily concede that the amount of coverage the Amiga gets in the mag is way too smaller than the one Nintendo and Megadrive get? :mrgreen:
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Sephiroth81
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Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Post by Sephiroth81 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:09 am

OldSkoolCoolFool wrote:I'm not surprised the Amiga is getting such a good response. Most Amiga owners had huge (mostly pirated) game collections and wouldn't ever be able to own such a huge library of games for any console, even if they could afford it. I can't argue certain games and genres worked better on consoles but the opposite is also true.
Yep, I was an Amiga and SNES owner, but I had far more Amiga games thanks to having copies (I did genuinely buy some Amiga games, but only a handful). The most expensive Amiga games, like Monkey Island 2, were still dirt cheap (£25-30 brand new) compared to games like Street Fighter 2 which were extortionate (50-60 quid).

As for quality, the Amiga had its strengths and weaknesses, just as the SNES had which are well documented here. The Amiga could do things that the SNES would struggle with and vice versa (the A500 at least). Strategy games, point and click adventures and simpler stuff was always better on the Amiga, while the SNES was always superior in terms of RPGs, platformers and fighting games.

I don't see the "faff" argument for the A500. You put a disk in, it launches.....if its a multi disk game, you'd be sensible in getting a second disk drive, but its just a case of removing a disk, then putting another in. Its as easy as you make it really.

If there were ever 2 libraries of games I could ever just "settle with", it would be the Amiga and the SNES. These are the cream of the crop for me. Speedball 2 and Super Mario Kart are two of the most playable games ever created.

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Darran@Retro Gamer
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Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Post by Darran@Retro Gamer » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:20 am

Sephiroth81 wrote:
OldSkoolCoolFool wrote:I

I don't see the "faff" argument for the A500. You put a disk in, it launches.....if its a multi disk game, you'd be sensible in getting a second disk drive, but its just a case of removing a disk, then putting another in. Its as easy as you make it really.
Except when a lot of games require multiple swaps before you even get to the title screen... Also, I recall second disk drives being quite expensive (it certainly took a while for me to get mine).
Again, it's fine if that's what you're used to, but after jumping to consoles, disk swapping felt amazingly archaic, even back then.
Playing games like Body Blows is a joke. The constant loading kills any atmosphere the game might build.
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Sephiroth81
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Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Post by Sephiroth81 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:30 am

Darran@Retro Gamer wrote: Except when a lot of games require multiple swaps before you even get to the title screen... Also, I recall second disk drives being quite expensive (it certainly took a while for me to get mine).
Again, it's fine if that's what you're used to, but after jumping to consoles, disk swapping felt amazingly archaic, even back then.
Playing games like Body Blows is a joke. The constant loading kills any atmosphere the game might build.
True, some games are worse than others, but many games are just 1 or 2 disks. Lets not let a small batch of games ruin what was a great machine.

Not sure the disk drive price, my brother got that. But yea, probably wasn't cheap. I probably would find it a lot more painful now using a real Amiga 500 again....but at the time, it felt like a giant step up from the C64 (with a tape drive and truly long load times), and WINUAE has made the whole Amiga library easily accessible on a number of platforms and reduces load times, physical disk swaps etc etc. I appreciate "emulation" probably wasn't part of the discussion though....but if you factor in WINUAE, the Amiga has aged remarkably well IMO.

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The Laird
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Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Post by The Laird » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:32 am

Hiro wrote:
Fair enough. And you'll happily concede that the amount of coverage the Amiga gets in the mag is way too smaller than the one Nintendo and Megadrive get? :mrgreen:
Would be cool to see more ST/Amiga stuff in the mag.

I have a couple of nice Making Ofs ready to go :mrgreen:

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thingonaspring
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Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Post by thingonaspring » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:43 am

Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:Playing games like Body Blows is a joke. The constant loading kills any atmosphere the game might build.
to be fair, Body Blows was a bit of an exception. I don't remember too many other games that were as ridiculously slow or painful as that one. I was going to mention it before I read your comment, in fact. But for games like Monkey Island 2 and Beneath A Steel Sky, I jsut didn't care that I had to insert disk 11. Or 15, because they were great games 8)
I don't actually remember buying my extra external hard-drive, so not sure if mine came with my 500+ when I bought it, as a package. but definitely a lifesaver as it were.

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joefish
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Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Post by joefish » Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:01 am

Ah, the joys of disk swapping! The Amiga had a notably slow and noisy drive, coupled with the way some developers would compulsively include a long-winded animated graphical intro to their games, then a similarly excessive title screen, that would just add to the time wasted. And then it wouldn't simply start the game when you pressed FIRE on the joystick - you had to read the manual (similarly padded out with some ridiculous backstory to explain what the hell was going on in the intro) to find out which function key or whatever actually started the game...

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Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Post by outdated_gamer » Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:13 am

imo, Commodore messed up by not pushing the CD drive for Amiga more seriously and also for not pushing the AGA chipset and 3D accelerators. The Amiga 1200 was more powerful than the SNES and MD but few games made good usage of the new AGA hardware and sticking with floppy drives really limited the amount of data that could be stored in games. I think Amiga could still live on as a cheaper alternative to DOS PC but instead Commodore opted to make a cost reduced console out of it, the CD32. And the CD32 just wasn't competition for the likes of Sega Saturn and Sony PlayStation that came out two years after it's release. By then it was already too late for Commodore which went under due to bad business decisions.

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slacey1070
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Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Post by slacey1070 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:23 pm

My 2nd Amiga drive cost less than Star Fox on my snes...which cost the equivalent of £90 in today's money.

I had snes and Amiga but the Amiga got played way more...

Was there as close an arcade conversion on the snes as marble madness on the Amiga?

Having said that...I still have my snes but the Amiga went years ago

Agreed re more Amiga coverage...love to read about it.
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Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Post by Darran@Retro Gamer » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:28 pm

Sephiroth81 wrote:
Darran@Retro Gamer wrote: True, some games are worse than others, but many games are just 1 or 2 disks. Lets not let a small batch of games ruin what was a great machine.
Even two disks is rubbish when you're used to the quickness of cartridge.
I'd imagine that if I'd gone straight from the 8-bit computers to the 16-bit computers it wouldn't have been as much as an issue as the long waits would have been still fresh in my mind, but going to cartridge and near instant speed loading was a revelation which made home computers feel poor in comparison. I actually bought a disc drive specifically for Eye Of The Beholder 2 because the constant disk swapping was driving me nuts.
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Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Post by General Opulence » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:56 pm

Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:
Sephiroth81 wrote:
Darran@Retro Gamer wrote: True, some games are worse than others, but many games are just 1 or 2 disks. Lets not let a small batch of games ruin what was a great machine.
Even two disks is rubbish when you're used to the quickness of cartridge.
I'd imagine that if I'd gone straight from the 8-bit computers to the 16-bit computers it wouldn't have been as much as an issue as the long waits would have been still fresh in my mind, but going to cartridge and near instant speed loading was a revelation which made home computers feel poor in comparison. I actually bought a disc drive specifically for Eye Of The Beholder 2 because the constant disk swapping was driving me nuts.
Personally the loading (bar a few games multidisk games) didnt bother many people, i too went from the Spectrum to the Master System to the Amiga and Megadrive, it didnt bother me in the slightest waiting a little to play a great game, it gets aggregated i think, people tend to moan more about it now then they did back then :lol: I still played more computer games then i did console games.

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Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Post by RodimusPrime » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:15 pm

slacey1070 wrote:My 2nd Amiga drive cost less than Star Fox on my snes...which cost the equivalent of £90 in today's money.

I had snes and Amiga but the Amiga got played way more...

Was there as close an arcade conversion on the snes as marble madness on the Amiga?

Having said that...I still have my snes but the Amiga went years ago

Agreed re more Amiga coverage...love to read about it.
Well seeing as how marble madness was a 1984 games and the Snes did a good job of porting cutting edge arcade games like streetfighter II then I would say yes.

I remember being disgusted with the likes of Mortal kombat and Streetfighter II on the amiga, multi disk slow loading, 1 button control scheme and horrendous visuals and playability.

Just like strategy and adventure style games were slow and clunky on consoles, its all about what you prefer.

It still makes me laugh that people still use examples like blody blows, Project X, Zool and superfrog as examples of the amiga being just as good as the consoles in those gnres when they are way way below the quality of games you got on consoles.


I always wondered why Amiga games needed so many disks for certain games when the Snes could put out great games on cartridges that were smaller in size

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