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Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:12 pm
by RodimusPrime
I love the amiga, thats why I have it close behind the Snes and MD.

But it was never enough to be the main machine for me, it was always a supplement to the MD and Snes. It was just too limited in terms of the games I wanted to mostly play at the time.

Of course I loved Monkey island, champ man, Sensi, Cannon fodder etc but it was far too stunted in terms of fighting games, shooters, platformers etc. those types of games on the amiga were always well below par IMO.

I suppose a lot of it is which games you wanted to play the most really.

Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:45 pm
by PostieDoc
The Amiga, so many great games and a lot of them are still great today.
PC didn't become interesting for me until the mid-90s.

Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:49 pm
by outdated_gamer
theantmeister wrote:
outdated_gamer wrote:It could also be noted that DOS PC was 16-bit only in the 286 era but 386 machines were already 32-bit architecture.
The term "DOS PC" is a little ambiguous, isn't it? I took it to mean IBM compatibles running MS-DOS that were contemporary with the other systems listed (early-mid 90s?), which would technically span to include 386s. Although, in my case, I was still gaming on an XT clone.
Well that's what I suggested with my post. For a system that technically has no generations or generations occur much faster than other systems (basically each time when Intel/AMD/Nvidia put out new line of processors/graphics cards; was like that in the old Intel/AMD/Cyrix/3dfx/ATi/Nvidia/PowerVR/whatyougot eras too), it's hard to define an era, outside of the vague "DOS PC" term. That's also why I didn't vote for PC as the "16-bitness" implies more on the 80s era when PCs just weren't very good gaming machines. But comming early to mid 90s and late 90s, they were very good gaming machines with leading technology, if you could afford them.

Likewise, TG-16 had a 8-bit CPU and the pool could have included the TI-99 and Intellivision, for technical accuracy (both 16-bit systems, regardless of the "8-bit look" of their graphics). A common mistake people still make is associating CPU bitness with better graphics. For example a Intel Xeon is a "512 bit" CPU, but if you don't pair it with a graphics card it's graphics output will look crap. There's an expression for such kind of CPU-only rendering which is called "software mode". This kind of rendering was abandoned years ago for games (I believe the last one which still supported it was UT 2004), although in the graphics rendering industry it's still used (for example for ray-tracing and such). But it should also be noted that a CPU without any video card or graphic functions would not output a picture at all. You still needed a video chip to display the picture on the screen. The TG-16 had powerful graphics hardware which is why it's 8-bit CPU played a small role in how it's visuals looked. Maybe a better expression would be "systems with 16-bit graphics look", but this is also very inaccurate as for example the Neo-Geo could output 2D visuals of PlayStation's and Saturn's quality (thousands of colours, many large sprites and advanced scaling).

Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:13 pm
by The Laird
I think it's pretty obvious that I am referring to PCs of the same era as the other machines when DOS was the main operating system. This was the best way I could find to describe them, perhaps I shouldn't have included them at all.

I already explained the PC Engine inclusion in my first post but some people seem to have ignored that for some reason. The PCE had a custom 8-bit CPU but 16-bit graphics and sound chips, same as the Lynx for that matter which is also on this list (although the Lynx had a 16-bit bus too) and was marketed as a 16-bit machine in the US. Hence why it made this list.

Would have been stupid to include machines like the TI99 and Intellivision, they were very much of the 8-bit era in nearly every way and not contemporaries of these other machines. Including the Jaguar would have also been stupid too as it was vastly more powerful than all of these. Ok it had one 16-bit chip in it, but so did many other later systems to aid with menial tasks. If you think the Jag is 16-bit then you really are an idiot.

Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:46 pm
by PanzerGeneral
Image
Everyone knows this is "the one", Bill Cosby would never lie----------------ohhhh wait a minute.

Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:56 pm
by Spirit of AHB
personaly i think the sega nomad was the best 16 machine i owned dont have it anymore but i always felt sega made a mistake not releasing it in the uk i think it would been popular despite newer consoles being released.

Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:08 pm
by outdated_gamer
The Laird wrote:I think it's pretty obvious that I am referring to PCs of the same era as the other machines when DOS was the main operating system. This was the best way I could find to describe them, perhaps I shouldn't have included them at all.

I already explained the PC Engine inclusion in my first post but some people seem to have ignored that for some reason. The PCE had a custom 8-bit CPU but 16-bit graphics and sound chips, same as the Lynx for that matter which is also on this list (although the Lynx had a 16-bit bus too) and was marketed as a 16-bit machine in the US. Hence why it made this list.

Would have been stupid to include machines like the TI99 and Intellivision, they were very much of the 8-bit era in nearly every way and not contemporaries of these other machines. Including the Jaguar would have also been stupid too as it was vastly more powerful than all of these. Ok it had one 16-bit chip in it, but so did many other later systems to aid with menial tasks. If you think the Jag is 16-bit then you really are an idiot.
Well if that's the case then I would lean much more towards DOS PC. :wink:

But since I was more a console player in those times I'll stick with SNES and MD. Have very little experience with Amiga too so I'm unable to fully appreciate it.

Your reasoning for including PCE/TG-16 is good and all, but I've seen some retro gamers doubt that it's a "16-bit" machine because of it's CPU. I guess it comes down to how important the CPU bitness is to you, which should also put the Jaguar and N64 on another level comparative to other 5th gen systems. :wink:

Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:52 pm
by davyK
SNES for me. No console was "the best" of course. It's all down to memories and association. The SNES came out in the early nineties - I was in my mid-20s, single, working in a job I loved, had bought a house, and life was good. I was torn between it and the MD - but when I saw Pilotwings on Gamesmaster it swung it for me.

An awful lot of the titles have aged really well, particularly the 2D games that still look and sound beautiful. Not only were Nintendo in their pomp, but at that time the console's strengths seemed to inspire 3rd parties - Konami in particular were in spectacular form on the SNES. But others such as Capcom did great stuff on it as well.

Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:31 am
by aztecca
The Laird wrote: If you think the Jag is 16-bit then you really are an idiot.

I think the idiot is the person who starts a thread like this on here with ten options and doesnt expect people to start saying "this had an 8 bit cpu" "this was 386" blah blah blah.

Its a bit like starting a what is retro thread.

Theres no way the neogeo was 16 bit.It was basically having a arcade macine in your house.Just look at yhe snes, Md conversions they just dont compare.Didnt it say 24bit on the box of the aes anyway?

For me 16 bit is Snes, Megadrive, Amiga and St thats it.

Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:32 am
by HalcyonDaze00
The mighty Amiga!

had the best games and the biggest variety: Kick Off, Sensi, Monkey Island, Championship Manager, Sim City, Breach 2, Another World, Eye of the Beholder, Dungeon Master, Bubble Bobble.......so may great games

Can understand why people think the jag should have been included, but would it have got any votes anyway?

Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:43 am
by The Laird
aztecca wrote:
The Laird wrote: If you think the Jag is 16-bit then you really are an idiot.
I think the idiot is the person who starts a thread like this on here with ten options and doesnt expect people to start saying "this had an 8 bit cpu" "this was 386" blah blah blah.

Its a bit like starting a what is retro thread.

Theres no way the neogeo was 16 bit.It was basically having a arcade macine in your house.Just look at yhe snes, Md conversions they just dont compare.Didnt it say 24bit on the box of the aes anyway?

For me 16 bit is Snes, Megadrive, Amiga and St thats it.
Which is why I explained that in my first post, as it was obvious some people would want to question that. So I certainly expected that, otherwise I wouldn't have set my stall out from the start.

Argue you want, the Neo Geo is a 16-bit machine, this is indisputable fact. The 24-bit thing was just silly marketing hype to try and set it apart, just like Sega with their 128-bit Dreamcast claims.

There is a lot more to 16-bit than just the MD, SNES, ST and Amiga as this thread shows and the responses have been really interesting so far. I am especially surprised to see the Amiga winning, I knew it would do well but I didn't think it would be ahead of the SNES or the Mega Drive, especially when many of the games that people are quoting as reasons for choosing it were done better on other machines.

Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:55 am
by markopoloman
Got to be the Amiga. Better than the Sinclair ST.

:mrgreen:

Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:05 am
by killbot
The Laird wrote:
aztecca wrote:
The Laird wrote: If you think the Jag is 16-bit then you really are an idiot.
I think the idiot is the person who starts a thread like this on here with ten options and doesnt expect people to start saying "this had an 8 bit cpu" "this was 386" blah blah blah.

Its a bit like starting a what is retro thread.

Theres no way the neogeo was 16 bit.It was basically having a arcade macine in your house.Just look at yhe snes, Md conversions they just dont compare.Didnt it say 24bit on the box of the aes anyway?

For me 16 bit is Snes, Megadrive, Amiga and St thats it.
Which is why I explained that in my first post, as it was obvious some people would want to question that. So I certainly expected that, otherwise I wouldn't have set my stall out from the start.

Argue you want, the Neo Geo is a 16-bit machine, this is indisputable fact. The 24-bit thing was just silly marketing hype to try and set it apart, just like Sega with their 128-bit Dreamcast claims.

There is a lot more to 16-bit than just the MD, SNES, ST and Amiga as this thread shows and the responses have been really interesting so far. I am especially surprised to see the Amiga winning, I knew it would do well but I didn't think it would be ahead of the SNES or the Mega Drive, especially when many of the games that people are quoting as reasons for choosing it were done better on other machines.
To be fair the only reason I picked SNES over Amiga is exactly that - many of my favourite Amiga games can be played on consoles but there wasn't much traffic the other way. There were still some good Amiga titles that didn't get converted (Hunter is a prime example) but I hardly ever pull out my Amiga since most of the games I'd play on it I can play on my MD or SNES with the added benefit of no long load times and better controllers.

Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:11 am
by The Laird
Interesting to see 2 votes for "other" but nobody explaining why they chose that option or what machine they had in mind.

Re: Best 16-bit Machine?

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:47 am
by rocky1980
Amiga, by a mile :)