Are modern games making us lazy?

Discuss and discover all the great games of yesteryear!

Moderators: mknott, NickThorpe, Darran@Retro Gamer, MMohammed, lcarlson

User avatar
big mean bunny
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:02 am

Re: Are modern games making us lazy?

Post by big mean bunny » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:39 pm

I think that games have moved on for the better, been playing Donkey Kong Country recently with a mate and whilst it's great, its brutally difficult, one bad jump potentially sends you back a couple of levels if it was your final life. Some people could say that is part of the charm, but Rare's replay rewind feature for examples is a great way of combating that.

A game like Splosion man is there for the those that want to be hardcore. Great platformer for those that haven't played it.
Episode 14 now out 14th of Sept - Sega Mega drive £25 games challenge

Invert Y gaming podcast - the only way to play, news, chat and challenges, by gamers, for gamers.

http://invertypodcast.podomatic.com or Invert Y on iTunes

User avatar
Sephiroth81
Posts: 4572
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:35 pm

Re: Are modern games making us lazy?

Post by Sephiroth81 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:24 pm

Games are so long winded these days that you need assistance to abbreviate it (in many cases "dumbed down"). The older retro games on the other hand could often be finished in a couple of days....even if they had frustrating moments, or aimless wandering trying to find the next point to progress.

Plus people seem to buy more games these days (ie have more games to play and get through), so they have less patience in order to get through their larger library (and longer) titles.

User avatar
Megamixer
Posts: 14888
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:18 am
Location: Staffs, UK

Re: Are modern games making us lazy?

Post by Megamixer » Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:34 pm

look at it sideways wrote:When Fire Emblem introduced the option of removing perma-death a lot of people were unhappy, but I think that was a massive stride forward. It was only an option - you didn't have to take it - but it meant that characters you'd grown fond of would stay in the game till the very end. Basically, their stories remained open till the grand finale.
My problem with this is that I leave the perma-death on but if a character I like snuffs it? I still end up shutting the game off and reloading the save file :lol: . I only let the characters I don't care about stay dead.

I use gamefaqs and the like a fair bit. I always try and work something out myself but if I'm stumped then I just don't have the time to be stuck on a game forever since my gaming time is more limited than it once was.
Retro is a state of mind, and cares not for your puny concepts like dates and calendars.

User avatar
GarryG
Posts: 3221
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:33 pm
Location: The cold wet bit above England...

Re: Are modern games making us lazy?

Post by GarryG » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:06 pm

I think how much hand-holding is the right amount entirely depends on the type of game.

Attic Attack etc. would have been quite short games with arrows telling you where to go!

What I do think is that many modern games have far too much filler, because people expect to be playing a new game for hours before finishing it, and actually feel cheated if a 5 hr game hasn't got another 15+ hours of pointless wandering around (open world) 'find the objects' type filler :?



Hey, I just thought of a great pastiche game 'open world' a massive empty world that will take you weeks to explore... Oh wait .... :mrgreen:
Why not visit my ramblings at Garry's Gaming Blog

User avatar
The Beans
Posts: 3635
Joined: Sat May 19, 2012 4:18 pm

Re: Are modern games making us lazy?

Post by The Beans » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:42 pm

Before we all start down that tiresome old retro road of how great it was back in the day and aren't modern games just a load of old rot blah de blah blah ...

Can we just kind of stop for a minute and remind ourselves that filler, and repetition, and all the other evil things that can make a game a less than stellar experience, have been with us for a very long time indeed. Filler, padding, call it what you will, is a major feature of Manic Miner for example. Right back to the start when it's Game Over. Right back to the start to repeat the levels you've already completed. Over and over and over again. Even when the challenge for those levels has completely gone and been replaced by dull familiarity.The very definition of padding right there.
In fact, if we're being honest, this thread should be called "Have games always added things that have made us lazy?", to which the answer is "yes" and we could then discuss stuff like "Lives" and "Extra Lives" and "Continues" and so on.
If it's slower than me, dumber than me and it tastes good ... tough titty.

User avatar
GarryG
Posts: 3221
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:33 pm
Location: The cold wet bit above England...

Re: Are modern games making us lazy?

Post by GarryG » Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:18 pm

The Beans wrote:Before we all start down that tiresome old retro road ....
Um, you do know you are on Image forum right :lol:
The Beans wrote:Before we all start down that tiresome old retro road of how great it was back in the day and aren't modern games just a load of old rot blah de blah blah ... .
I never said or implied that at all :?
I am not interested in an old vs new argument, games are just games to me old or new, and Atic Atac was just an example of a game that would be worse off with pointer arrows. Would you feel better if I used 'Dear Esther' or 'Journey' as an example instead?

I don't see the old/new difference between Atic Atac and say Journey (for example purposes only) as a big thing, they are both amongst my favourite games, with good and bad points, and I played both when they were new :mrgreen:


Seriously though, Manic Minier and it's ilk is not my idea of filler, the repetition is what makes you get better at this type of game (Like in a SHMUP).
Games with pointless side-quests consisting of running around space you have already completed to collect the ,coin, note, whatever is pure filler, have become the norm, and are recognised as such even by the people who make them.

But (IMO) games like Manic Miner, JSW, Lode Runner, Chucky Egg, and many, many, many more, indeed every SHMUP ever made (including the modern ones)... and anything you actually die in and have to restart (even newer games like demon's souls), is not filler - that is the game-play of those games and lots of people like it.

The same goes for hand-holding, people have different levels, and what seems like too much for one person may not be enough for someone else.
It may all be subjective, but how much is too much is still entirely dependant on the game.


If you don't like a particular type of game, that's fine. Every one has a right to like what they like, and not like what they don't like.
Why not visit my ramblings at Garry's Gaming Blog

User avatar
theantmeister
Posts: 3440
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 12:36 pm

Re: Are modern games making us lazy?

Post by theantmeister » Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:41 am

The Beans wrote:Before we all start down that tiresome old retro road of how great it was back in the day and aren't modern games just a load of old rot blah de blah blah ...
Oh, I'm not saying the handholding in modern games is a bad thing (as many have pointed out, it can be a good thing when it makes sense to have it), I'm just worried that they are making it harder for us to go back to older games.

For example, I gave up on Contra 3 because it pulled that old trick of making you play through it again after you've beaten it the first time to see the "true" ending. All without saving or passwords or anything. By that point I had already given up and used saved states so that I didn't have to repeat the entire game each time I put the cart in.

This is after I had played games like VVVVV that literally has a checkpoint that saved your progress in each screen. If you die, you never go back very far. You get used to that very quickly. Going back to not having it... that's tough.

User avatar
killbot
Posts: 4824
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 9:36 am

Re: Are modern games making us lazy?

Post by killbot » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:53 am

There has to be a middle ground between constantly telling the player what to do and leaving them floundering in the dark. Super Metroid is a good example, you rarely get completely lost but the game never feels like it's holding your hand.
Image

You can buy my book here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wolfshead-ebook ... =wolfshead

NES, SNES, N64, GC, Wii, Wii U, GB, GBC, GBA SP, DS Lite, 3DS, MS, MD, Saturn, DC, GG, Xbox, 360

User avatar
big mean bunny
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:02 am

Re: Are modern games making us lazy?

Post by big mean bunny » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:49 pm

I thought of this thread when this happened to me today, playing Dino Crisis on the DC, barely remember any of it from when I briefly played it on what I imagine was the ps1, however the notes dotted about don't save to anywhere like you would now expect, so it have been notifying me of door codes and what not and I am having to write them down on Paper as I don't have a good enough memory to remember what the code is once I have found the door!

This for me isn't a good design that has been replaced by laziness.
Episode 14 now out 14th of Sept - Sega Mega drive £25 games challenge

Invert Y gaming podcast - the only way to play, news, chat and challenges, by gamers, for gamers.

http://invertypodcast.podomatic.com or Invert Y on iTunes

User avatar
Misery
Posts: 2236
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:52 pm

Re: Are modern games making us lazy?

Post by Misery » Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:24 am

I think I know what you mean with this topic here, and while I dont know that "lazy" is the correct word for it, yes, I do think modern games cause this.

Or at least, that's been my experience. People are less willing to learn on their own, to experiment, to actually confront challenges, to TRY at all, sometimes. So frequently, modern games, on the occaision that I play them, provide me with little challenge, if any. Even something like the Souls series... no, I didnt get too much out of that. They're entertaining enough, but very slow moving. Yet they really ARE the example of "high" difficulty these days.... most modern games, I find easy to the point of almost being mindless. Yet others I know think that the same games are "just too hard!" and such.

I can understand.... sort of.... the need to dumb things down or keep things easy in a game that is all about a cinematic experience, even if I personally avoid games of that sort like the plague. But beyond that... yeah, things are dumbed down too much and such. Hell, think of the original Super Mario game on the NES. Were that made these days, the game would first give you a prompt that says something like "Try pushing 'A' to jump. Mario will rise up, and then gravity will pull him back down! Use this to reach higher places! Try stomping on this Goomba to defeat him!". The game would pause during this prompt (or not spawn any enemies or much else until you move to a giant glowing spot on the floor), and then would probably fart a single Goomba at you, which likely wouldnt move, lest the player get annihilated by it's awesome strength and challenge.

Stomping on it would then grant you an achievement. Such skill! Ugh.

While I'll play "major" modern games sometimes, I tend to get bored with them way too fast, leading to very short sessions and the possibility to regret the purchase due to boredom.

User avatar
outdated_gamer
Posts: 2599
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:14 pm

Re: Are modern games making us lazy?

Post by outdated_gamer » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:57 pm

Try giving a modern-only gamer Super Contra, Ghouls 'n Ghosts, King's Quest IV, Wizardry VII, Zelda II, Mario Bros. 2 Japanese version and seeing the reaction on their face... :P

User avatar
The Beans
Posts: 3635
Joined: Sat May 19, 2012 4:18 pm

Re: Are modern games making us lazy?

Post by The Beans » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:29 pm

outdated_gamer wrote:Try giving a modern-only gamer Super Contra, Ghouls 'n Ghosts, King's Quest IV, Wizardry VII, Zelda II, Mario Bros. 2 Japanese version and seeing the reaction on their face... :P
That reaction on their face would be more about the graphics, sound and antique gameplay than anything to do with difficulty.
If it's slower than me, dumber than me and it tastes good ... tough titty.

User avatar
Negative Creep
Posts: 3842
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:59 pm
Location: Rochester, Kent

Re: Are modern games making us lazy?

Post by Negative Creep » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:38 pm

Misery wrote:I can understand.... sort of.... the need to dumb things down or keep things easy in a game that is all about a cinematic experience, even if I personally avoid games of that sort like the plague. But beyond that... yeah, things are dumbed down too much and such. Hell, think of the original Super Mario game on the NES. Were that made these days, the game would first give you a prompt that says something like "Try pushing 'A' to jump. Mario will rise up, and then gravity will pull him back down! Use this to reach higher places! Try stomping on this Goomba to defeat him!". The game would pause during this prompt (or not spawn any enemies or much else until you move to a giant glowing spot on the floor), and then would probably fart a single Goomba at you, which likely wouldnt move, lest the player get annihilated by it's awesome strength and challenge.

Stomping on it would then grant you an achievement. Such skill! Ugh.

While I'll play "major" modern games sometimes, I tend to get bored with them way too fast, leading to very short sessions and the possibility to regret the purchase due to boredom.

Whilst I cna see where you're coming from, wouldn't the instruction manual basically serve the same purpose? Mario has very simple mechanics in so far as there are only two buttons, no items to find, no plot choices and no chance of going the wrong way. As games have become more complex it can need a way of introducing the player to their own particular mechanics (although having said that I don't know why I always need to be told to use left stick to look around!)
Image

User avatar
big mean bunny
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:02 am

Re: Are modern games making us lazy?

Post by big mean bunny » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:53 pm

Mario 64 is chalk full of instructions, as it's more complex than the others it brought in that need.
Episode 14 now out 14th of Sept - Sega Mega drive £25 games challenge

Invert Y gaming podcast - the only way to play, news, chat and challenges, by gamers, for gamers.

http://invertypodcast.podomatic.com or Invert Y on iTunes

kiwimike
Posts: 3640
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:20 am
Location: Chch, NZ

Re: Are modern games making us lazy?

Post by kiwimike » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:49 am

IMO Modern everything is making us lazy rather than just games... :lol:

Seriously though, I kind of know what you mean...but it does tend to depend on the specific game. Most games now are aimed towards a more mainstream audience now rather than niche/hardcore, so a game that takes a lot to get into are more few and far between. As well as context sensitive commands most games have an 'ease into it' level or two, to familiarise the player with the control system. And I quite like that rather than earlier games where a study of the manual was required to get into a game that was more than the arcade type.
I always found the complex combos of the likes of SFII quite annoying personally (and button bashed without bothering) and some of these games like sleeping dogs where a single button push can relate to different commands depending on the situation quite fun. That might say more about me and my attention span though :lol:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: PostieDoc and 1 guest