Sega fans - what has filled the space they occupied for you?

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DPrinny
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Re: Sega fans - what has filled the space they occupied for

Post by DPrinny » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:41 am

I just kept on playing..............

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outdated_gamer
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Re: Sega fans - what has filled the space they occupied for

Post by outdated_gamer » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:07 pm

I find it interesting so many Sega fans jumped ship to PlayStation. The Saturn certainly was no slouch, it's 2D capabilities were better than the PS, it had two central processors and video chips, more memory (especially with expansion modules) and a host of good exclusive and non-exclusive games. Maybe there was this impression that the system wasn't that good at 3D rendering and the PS outperformed it, but this was probably more due to it's complex, hard-to-tap architecture (was probably the first console to feature two central processors instead of one) and ports of games that barely made use of the extra power it had on offer (e.g. Alien Trilogy used only 1 CPU on the Saturn). Additionally, Sega never bothered to bring some of their Japan-only gems over to the West, their American department going as far as to say that JRPGs are uninteresting for American players, which was comical thinking if we look at the massive popularity of games like Final Fantasy VII back then, and generally there was this kind of "we're moving onto a new platform soon" mood going on, losing Sega developer support and many canned projects (among them Sonic X-treme, which atleast had an interesting concept going on).

I think the failure of the Saturn was more the result of bad marketing and decisions on Sega's part rather than the machine being so much worse than the PS (it was really comparable and in some cases better).

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Re: Sega fans - what has filled the space they occupied for

Post by JamesC » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:34 pm

I think trying to compete with 3D games was a bad mistake for the Saturn. If you look at games like Wipeout, they just look better on PS.
The Saturn really shines with games like Street Fighter 2 Alpha and Nights... - excellent arcade quality games.

The Dreamcast was ace and the games still look gorgeous. I never liked the uncomfortable controller though and the odd memory card things were just confusing to the customer in my opinion.

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Re: Sega fans - what has filled the space they occupied for

Post by The Laird » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:50 pm

outdated_gamer wrote:but this was probably more due to it's complex, hard-to-tap architecture (was probably the first console to feature two central processors instead of one)
No, that was the Jaguar with its two DSP chips.

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Re: Sega fans - what has filled the space they occupied for

Post by gman72 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:00 pm

The Saturn was a great console, an absolute powerhouse for 2D games and a decent workhorse for 3D games. But when it came to 3D games they almost always looked better on the PS1 although there were a few notable exceptions. Exhumed and Duke Nukem 3D were better on the Saturn and it obviously had games like Burning Rangers and Panzer Dragoon that never made it to the PSx. In general though SONYs grey slab was a superior 3D machine.
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Re: Sega fans - what has filled the space they occupied for

Post by Antiriad2097 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:27 pm

The Laird wrote:
outdated_gamer wrote:but this was probably more due to it's complex, hard-to-tap architecture (was probably the first console to feature two central processors instead of one)
No, that was the Jaguar with its two DSP chips.
But you so often remind us the Jag didn't have a CPU, now you're claiming it has two?
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Re: Sega fans - what has filled the space they occupied for

Post by The Laird » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:35 pm

Antiriad2097 wrote:
The Laird wrote:
outdated_gamer wrote:but this was probably more due to it's complex, hard-to-tap architecture (was probably the first console to feature two central processors instead of one)
No, that was the Jaguar with its two DSP chips.
But you so often remind us the Jag didn't have a CPU, now you're claiming it has two?
It didn't have a single CPU, it had custom architecture with 3 different chips (if you also count the 68k) that could be used as a CPU. The Saturn has an incredibly similar set-up. There is no defined CPU in either machine, it's up to the programmer how they manage the system, but you will only get optimum performance if you use them all in tandem and give them their own tasks.

So no, I am not claiming anything, it's a fact you could have easily Googled rather than trying to start another argument :wink:

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Re: Sega fans - what has filled the space they occupied for

Post by silvergunner » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:26 am

gman72 wrote:The Saturn was a great console, an absolute powerhouse for 2D games and a decent workhorse for 3D games. But when it came to 3D games they almost always looked better on the PS1 although there were a few notable exceptions. Exhumed and Duke Nukem 3D were better on the Saturn and it obviously had games like Burning Rangers and Panzer Dragoon that never made it to the PSx. In general though SONYs grey slab was a superior 3D machine.
Used to think saturn version of duke was better until I owned the PS1 version many years later.

This vid shows the difference. First 5min is PS1 then the next 5min is the saturn. Quite a difference really, saturn version is still great though.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I4mwhEzTEtg

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Re: Sega fans - what has filled the space they occupied for

Post by Matt_B » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:03 am

The Laird wrote:
outdated_gamer wrote:but this was probably more due to it's complex, hard-to-tap architecture (was probably the first console to feature two central processors instead of one)
No, that was the Jaguar with its two DSP chips.
The Megadrive had two - and being a 68000 and Z80 they're unambiguously CPUs as well - long before the Jaguar. You could perhaps argue about earlier machines as well, and there were additional CPUs in some cartridges and add-ons for machines like the Atari 2600 and the Intellivision, but it's certainly something that first happened well before the Jaguar/Saturn generation.

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Re: Sega fans - what has filled the space they occupied for

Post by The Laird » Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:01 am

Oh come on, nobody ever used the Z80 in the Mega Drive as a CPU except for SMS compatibility. Before the Jag's generation consoles always had a single chip that was defined as the CPU.

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Re: Sega fans - what has filled the space they occupied for

Post by Matt_B » Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:26 am

The Laird wrote:Oh come on, nobody ever used the Z80 in the Mega Drive as a CPU except for SMS compatibility. Before the Jag's generation consoles always had a single chip that was defined as the CPU.
That's just not true. Almost all Megadrive games use the Z80 to drive the sound chip and a few others offload other processing tasks onto it; having its own address space means that you don't suffer from the same contention issues in later multi-core architectures, so it makes little sense not to use it. You obviously wouldn't use it as the sole CPU for a Megadrive game, given that the 68000 has vastly more processing power, but it's far from dead weight.

The Jaguar was perhaps the first machine where you've got multiple processors of similar power, but when they're essentially sharing the same bus with only a tiny amount of cache each, that's not exactly very beneficial to developers. It's not really until you get to the Xbox 360 where you've got a multi-core console that could substantially outperform a machine with an equivalent single-core CPU.

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Re: Sega fans - what has filled the space they occupied for

Post by The Laird » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:40 pm

Exactly, the Z80 is not being used as a CPU, it's there for other functions.

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Re: Sega fans - what has filled the space they occupied for

Post by Matt_B » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:33 pm

The Laird wrote:Exactly, the Z80 is not being used as a CPU, it's there for other functions.
If you insist on redefining CPU to mean something completely different to what it usually does, i.e. a general purpose electronic circuit for processing instructions, I suppose it is.

However, I'll stick to the usual definition myself, so we'll have to agree to disagree here.

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Re: Sega fans - what has filled the space they occupied for

Post by Space Holiday » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:38 pm

I don't think I will ever find a company that had games as unique and as daring as Sega. I have however, found many games from all different companies that I absolutely love. Atlus' Persona series is incredible, and for me, this series could easily beat a number of beloved Sega series to the top spot. Nothing so far has managed to capture the magic of the Shenmue series yet though...
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Re: Sega fans - what has filled the space they occupied for

Post by crusto » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:45 pm

The Laird wrote:
It didn't have a single CPU, it had custom architecture with 3 different chips (if you also count the 68k) that could be used as a CPU. The Saturn has an incredibly similar set-up. There is no defined CPU in either machine, it's up to the programmer how they manage the system, but you will only get optimum performance if you use them all in tandem and give them their own tasks.

So no, I am not claiming anything, it's a fact you could have easily Googled rather than trying to start another argument :wink:
Can you explain this further to me please: If you use them in tandem, but give them different tasks then how is that using them in tandem?
Reason I'm asking is because I think that for something to work in tandem with something else it would need to be doing the same task?? Otherwise it's just doing a different task.
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