Yooka-Laylee [Banjo-Kazooie spiritual successor]

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Re: Yooka-Laylee [Banjo-Kazooie spiritual successor]

Post by Darran@Retro Gamer » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:49 am

It's something of a shame that this has come out the same time as Thimbleweed Park.
They're both very similar in that they are riffing on classic genres, but Thimbleweed modernises the game to make it more relevant, while Yooka-Laylee doesn't.
There's a reason that Rare simply didn't make Banjo Kazooie 3 and that reasons becomes obvious when you play Yooka Laylee. It's an enjoyable game (we gave it 77%) but it feels like Playtonic painted itself into a corner by being too reliant on making a game that was essentially one that doesn't hold up today (it leans more towards the second game than the first for me).
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Re: Yooka-Laylee [Banjo-Kazooie spiritual successor]

Post by Grizzly » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:35 am

Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:It's something of a shame that this has come out the same time as Thimbleweed Park.
They're both very similar in that they are riffing on classic genres, but Thimbleweed modernises the game to make it more relevant, while Yooka-Laylee doesn't.
There's a reason that Rare simply didn't make Banjo Kazooie 3 and that reasons becomes obvious when you play Yooka Laylee. It's an enjoyable game (we gave it 77%) but it feels like Playtonic painted itself into a corner by being too reliant on making a game that was essentially one that doesn't hold up today (it leans more towards the second game than the first for me).
I find this interesting as there are plenty of revered titles that stick to a trodden formula with little modernisation. Shovel Knight did well for example and that was close to classic games in a lot of ways that i see Yooka-Laylee doing with their N64 riffing.
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Re: Yooka-Laylee [Banjo-Kazooie spiritual successor]

Post by Darran@Retro Gamer » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:47 am

Grizzly wrote:
Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:It's something of a shame that this has come out the same time as Thimbleweed Park.
They're both very similar in that they are riffing on classic genres, but Thimbleweed modernises the game to make it more relevant, while Yooka-Laylee doesn't.
There's a reason that Rare simply didn't make Banjo Kazooie 3 and that reasons becomes obvious when you play Yooka Laylee. It's an enjoyable game (we gave it 77%) but it feels like Playtonic painted itself into a corner by being too reliant on making a game that was essentially one that doesn't hold up today (it leans more towards the second game than the first for me).
I find this interesting as there are plenty of revered titles that stick to a trodden formula with little modernisation. Shovel Knight did well for example and that was close to classic games in a lot of ways that i see Yooka-Laylee doing with their N64 riffing.
I'd actually disagree with that. Shovel Knight plays how you remember those games to play, but it's actually far better in terms of its controls and level design. Go back to the likes of Duck Tales and Mega Man and to be they don't feel anywhere near as good as they used to in my head. That's why Shovel Knight is so good in my opinion.

If all these sorts of releases took the Shovel Knight approach I'd be very happy.
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Re: Yooka-Laylee [Banjo-Kazooie spiritual successor]

Post by Negative Creep » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:20 pm

Difficult comparing 2d to 3d though. Most older 3d games are no fun to play these days thanks to dated camera controls, a problem that 2d games don't have
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Re: Yooka-Laylee [Banjo-Kazooie spiritual successor]

Post by RetroMartin » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:50 am

Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:It's something of a shame that this has come out the same time as Thimbleweed Park.
They're both very similar in that they are riffing on classic genres, but Thimbleweed modernises the game to make it more relevant, while Yooka-Laylee doesn't.
There's a reason that Rare simply didn't make Banjo Kazooie 3 and that reasons becomes obvious when you play Yooka Laylee. It's an enjoyable game (we gave it 77%) but it feels like Playtonic painted itself into a corner by being too reliant on making a game that was essentially one that doesn't hold up today (it leans more towards the second game than the first for me).
Fortunately thimbleweed doesnt come out on PSN for a few months so i can enjoy Yooka-Laylee without comparison!
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Re: Yooka-Laylee [Banjo-Kazooie spiritual successor]

Post by Gigifusc » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:36 am

I just wonder if this is an expectation issue more than anything else? The toybox was pretty much everything I expected from the game (bar the odd thing). The one thing that's concerning me a bit is that they seem to have bulked it up with some grind so as to make the play time longer - something that it didn't need.

I'm really looking forward to playing it come the 11th (I've pre-ordered on PS4).

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Re: Yooka-Laylee [Banjo-Kazooie spiritual successor]

Post by outdated_gamer » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:36 pm

Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:It's something of a shame that this has come out the same time as Thimbleweed Park.
They're both very similar in that they are riffing on classic genres, but Thimbleweed modernises the game to make it more relevant, while Yooka-Laylee doesn't.
There's a reason that Rare simply didn't make Banjo Kazooie 3 and that reasons becomes obvious when you play Yooka Laylee. It's an enjoyable game (we gave it 77%) but it feels like Playtonic painted itself into a corner by being too reliant on making a game that was essentially one that doesn't hold up today (it leans more towards the second game than the first for me).
Personally, I find the argument of "dated mechanics" a bit flawed. Rare's N64 platformers were a direct upgrade of the Mario 64 formula and they, imo, bettered it. There's been a real lack of more open worldish, adventure-style platformers filled with things to do and collect in recent few years - even Nintendo's flagship, Mario, became more linear and confined - so if anything a return to that sort of platformer should be seen as refreshing in modern times. Saying that because the genre is best suited for side-scrolling environments does not mean there is no place for this sub category in today's time.

Anyhow, the mixed reception seems to mostly steem from the lack of content and polishing expected from a modern "AAA" title, but in my view the lower price is already a indicator that it's a title made by a small group of "veterans" rather than a big developer. And the "major" issues like framerate drops in the console versions and problematic camera have apparently already been adressed. The other complaints seem more in the vein of "it's too much like Banjo-Kazooie" or "we prefer traditional side scrollers" which seem more like personal issues than the game's actual problems.

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Re: Yooka-Laylee [Banjo-Kazooie spiritual successor]

Post by The Beans » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:45 am

outdated_gamer wrote:Personally, I find the argument of "dated mechanics" a bit flawed. Rare's N64 platformers were a direct upgrade of the Mario 64 formula and they, imo, bettered it. There's been a real lack of more open worldish, adventure-style platformers filled with things to do and collect in recent few years - even Nintendo's flagship, Mario, became more linear and confined - so if anything a return to that sort of platformer should be seen as refreshing in modern times. Saying that because the genre is best suited for side-scrolling environments does not mean there is no place for this sub category in today's time.
There's nothing refreshing about the bad game cameras and clumsy controls we had to put up with back in the day. The thing that stops Yooka Laylee being a really great game for everybody is that it reproduces exactly the sort of thing that knocked such games off their pedastal in the first place. It's a niche product that's fine for nostalgic retro fans but it's full of design choices that fell by the wayside for good reasons. There's a place for all types of games but the reviews are absolutely right to point out the flaws that don't sit well within a modern context and that will undoubtedly annoy and frustrate rather than feel "refreshing".
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Re: Yooka-Laylee [Banjo-Kazooie spiritual successor]

Post by Grizzly » Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:32 am

Started playing it yesterday and i am liking what i see so far. It's certainly a 'Warts and all' affair and has the same trappings with camera's and what have you.

I do not get the 'lack of content' argument right now, but i haven't seen enough. From what i understand, there are less levels in the game but they can be expanded by spending pagies on the worlds you have already been in. You can do this in any order you like so seems like if you get stuck in one world then you aren't there forever until you find a hard to reach pagie. It feels like more of a focused selection of levels, rather than the hodgepodge of content that was Banjo-Tooie. Whether this will be a bug bear later on or not remains to be seen.

Just to give a better idea of where i am at so far. I have mostly been playing the first world and have expanded it into the larger version. It's practically a much bigger version of Mumbo's Mountain so it's there as your token "Here are the mechanics" level, Will likely move on to another level tonight to see what's up.
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Re: Yooka-Laylee [Banjo-Kazooie spiritual successor]

Post by Darran@Retro Gamer » Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:04 am

The Beans wrote:
outdated_gamer wrote:Personally, I find the argument of "dated mechanics" a bit flawed. Rare's N64 platformers were a direct upgrade of the Mario 64 formula and they, imo, bettered it. There's been a real lack of more open worldish, adventure-style platformers filled with things to do and collect in recent few years - even Nintendo's flagship, Mario, became more linear and confined - so if anything a return to that sort of platformer should be seen as refreshing in modern times. Saying that because the genre is best suited for side-scrolling environments does not mean there is no place for this sub category in today's time.
There's nothing refreshing about the bad game cameras and clumsy controls we had to put up with back in the day. The thing that stops Yooka Laylee being a really great game for everybody is that it reproduces exactly the sort of thing that knocked such games off their pedastal in the first place. It's a niche product that's fine for nostalgic retro fans but it's full of design choices that fell by the wayside for good reasons. There's a place for all types of games but the reviews are absolutely right to point out the flaws that don't sit well within a modern context and that will undoubtedly annoy and frustrate rather than feel "refreshing".
Exactly.
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Re: Yooka-Laylee [Banjo-Kazooie spiritual successor]

Post by Gigifusc » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:48 am

Grizzly wrote:Started playing it yesterday and i am liking what i see so far. It's certainly a 'Warts and all' affair and has the same trappings with camera's and what have you.

I do not get the 'lack of content' argument right now, but i haven't seen enough. From what i understand, there are less levels in the game but they can be expanded by spending pagies on the worlds you have already been in. You can do this in any order you like so seems like if you get stuck in one world then you aren't there forever until you find a hard to reach pagie. It feels like more of a focused selection of levels, rather than the hodgepodge of content that was Banjo-Tooie. Whether this will be a bug bear later on or not remains to be seen.

Just to give a better idea of where i am at so far. I have mostly been playing the first world and have expanded it into the larger version. It's practically a much bigger version of Mumbo's Mountain so it's there as your token "Here are the mechanics" level, Will likely move on to another level tonight to see what's up.
Hey Grizzly. Hope you don't mind taking a minute to answer some questions - So you collect pagies and can choose to unlock new sections of each level? How many sections can you open on average for each level? And are there enough pagies to unlock all sections on all levels?

I've pre-ordered on PS4 and can't wait for the 11th. :)

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Re: Yooka-Laylee [Banjo-Kazooie spiritual successor]

Post by Grizzly » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:45 am

Gigifusc wrote:
Grizzly wrote:Started playing it yesterday and i am liking what i see so far. It's certainly a 'Warts and all' affair and has the same trappings with camera's and what have you.

I do not get the 'lack of content' argument right now, but i haven't seen enough. From what i understand, there are less levels in the game but they can be expanded by spending pagies on the worlds you have already been in. You can do this in any order you like so seems like if you get stuck in one world then you aren't there forever until you find a hard to reach pagie. It feels like more of a focused selection of levels, rather than the hodgepodge of content that was Banjo-Tooie. Whether this will be a bug bear later on or not remains to be seen.

Just to give a better idea of where i am at so far. I have mostly been playing the first world and have expanded it into the larger version. It's practically a much bigger version of Mumbo's Mountain so it's there as your token "Here are the mechanics" level, Will likely move on to another level tonight to see what's up.
Hey Grizzly. Hope you don't mind taking a minute to answer some questions - So you collect pagies and can choose to unlock new sections of each level? How many sections can you open on average for each level? And are there enough pagies to unlock all sections on all levels?

I've pre-ordered on PS4 and can't wait for the 11th. :)
I'm only going on the first level so i am not sure if you can expand later levels more but the first only has one expansion that i am aware of. Presumably there will be enough pagies for all as the new level sections give you more pagies in return.

So basically you have a loose method of progression through the game. You can either go through the hub world to open new worlds or you can expand the one you are in.
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Re: Yooka-Laylee [Banjo-Kazooie spiritual successor]

Post by RetroMartin » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:04 am

Preordered it to try out the toybox demo and found it literally to be Banjo 3 (didnt really play nuts and bolts but that seemed different enough to be a new game in a way)

Ive found the rolling ball platforming a little infuriating and the camera to do its usual thing but other then that i thoroughly enjoyed it.

Managed to get all the feathers to get the pagie and unlocked the secret 'proton effects' room and the one with the different floor effects.

Roll on the 11th!
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Re: Yooka-Laylee [Banjo-Kazooie spiritual successor]

Post by Gigifusc » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:33 am

Grizzly wrote:
Gigifusc wrote:
Grizzly wrote:Started playing it yesterday and i am liking what i see so far. It's certainly a 'Warts and all' affair and has the same trappings with camera's and what have you.

I do not get the 'lack of content' argument right now, but i haven't seen enough. From what i understand, there are less levels in the game but they can be expanded by spending pagies on the worlds you have already been in. You can do this in any order you like so seems like if you get stuck in one world then you aren't there forever until you find a hard to reach pagie. It feels like more of a focused selection of levels, rather than the hodgepodge of content that was Banjo-Tooie. Whether this will be a bug bear later on or not remains to be seen.

Just to give a better idea of where i am at so far. I have mostly been playing the first world and have expanded it into the larger version. It's practically a much bigger version of Mumbo's Mountain so it's there as your token "Here are the mechanics" level, Will likely move on to another level tonight to see what's up.
Hey Grizzly. Hope you don't mind taking a minute to answer some questions - So you collect pagies and can choose to unlock new sections of each level? How many sections can you open on average for each level? And are there enough pagies to unlock all sections on all levels?

I've pre-ordered on PS4 and can't wait for the 11th. :)
I'm only going on the first level so i am not sure if you can expand later levels more but the first only has one expansion that i am aware of. Presumably there will be enough pagies for all as the new level sections give you more pagies in return.

So basically you have a loose method of progression through the game. You can either go through the hub world to open new worlds or you can expand the one you are in.
Cool, thanks for that. :)
Sorry - one more question - I'm assuming you have the XB1 version - do you still have access to the toybox or did they remove it once you have the full game?

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Re: Yooka-Laylee [Banjo-Kazooie spiritual successor]

Post by rocky1980 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:13 am

As a KS backer not happy that the game has been all over the net for days now because the 'press' got there hands on it first. Yet the people that made it happen are still waiting to play it
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