Can you justify using pirated software.

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Are you able to justify using pirated software and if so how?

Poll ended at Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:08 am

1. YES
14
47%
2. NO
14
47%
3. It's too deep for me. I can't make a decision
2
7%
 
Total votes: 30

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Megamixer
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by Megamixer » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:02 am

Gigifusc wrote:
Megamixer wrote:I wonder though...if one of us posting in this thread suddenly got into games development and became really successful at it and then had their stuff pirated would the same laid-back response about copyright being flawed still be wheeled out? Would we really try and justify the actions of those taking from us?

Think this is a really good discussion by the way.
I am a games developer. I've worked in the industry for about 13 years. I've seen games I worked on pirated and have never really thought much of it. I don't see them as a lost sale, I see it as a failure on our part to create a game that inspired or motivated those people enough to buy an original copy of the game.

Just over a year ago I spent 6 months slogging away with a partner developing our own indie mobile game. It was a tough 6 months of working into the early hours night after night.

We released it on iPhone and Android. Response (what we got at least) was pretty positive. It was a commercial quality game and most people that played it thought it was pretty decent.

We sold it for 69p on iPhone. In the first 3 months we got something like 65,000 downloads. About 90% of those were pirated versions of the game - our actual sales figures was in the hundreds.

Again, I didn't really hate on the pirates. I just didn't see them as lost sales. I saw them as downloads from people that would never pay 69p for our game but did pirate it for free. Again, I saw it as a failure on our part - we didn't manage to develop or market a game that moved people enough to pay for it.

Interestingly, we killed the company off as we had no money left and changed it to free. Last time I checked before it got taken down from the appstore was just over 100,000 downloads.

On the one hand I'm happy that over 100,000 people got to play and hopefully enjoy our game. On the other hand less than 50% of those downloads were made when the game was free - people pirated it more when it was 69p than when it was free. Howabout that.

BTW - the game had no IAP's - it was either 69p or free for the whole thing.
:)
I didn't know you had worked in the industry so that's fair enough and I certainly won't argue the above post.

Did you though feel disappointed that something you'd personally worked on was pirated? As if people didn't respect what you'd done enough to warrant spending 69p? I just feel that if I'd created something that 90% of people decided to just take rather give a trivial fee for, I'd be angry and very disappointed. Obviously however you've been there and I'd be interested to know your personal feelings rather than from a business viewpoint, your developer's experience taken into account.
Retro is a state of mind, and cares not for your puny concepts like dates and calendars.

Gigifusc
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by Gigifusc » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:05 am

Sel Feena wrote:
Gigifusc wrote:
Sel Feena wrote:But what do you mean by devs acting responsibly? Do you mean the s/w put out should be at an acceptable level of technical polish, so no Ass Creed style glitches? What about net code for online?
Um. Good question. LOL.

I guess I mean not trying to bleed us dry by selling us the same thing again and again.

Not taking advantage of us by releasing sub standard games - both technically and game play. This is a big thing for me tbh. The last couple of years have been shocking. The evolution of game design seems to have just ground to a halt. I find myself struggling to find a game on current gen that I think is worthy of my time and money - I'm playing more retro games than ever before as a result.

Stop taking advantage of us with the morally corrupt F2P mechanics - some of these are quite shameful. I pay £50 for a game and then find that you've balanced it to get more money out of me! FIFA ultimate team is just incredible in the way it bleeds youngsters for their money!
Well, when you get to matters of gameplay and design, and even F2P mechanics, you really cannot talk about legislation covering that. One man's meat is another man's poison.
yes. Of course you're right. I'm just answering with my own opinion which I recognise isn't shared by everyone. :)

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The Beans
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by The Beans » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:12 am

Gigifusc wrote:
Sel Feena wrote:But what do you mean by devs acting responsibly? Do you mean the s/w put out should be at an acceptable level of technical polish, so no Ass Creed style glitches? What about net code for online?
Um. Good question. LOL.

I guess I mean not trying to bleed us dry by selling us the same thing again and again.

Not taking advantage of us by releasing sub standard games - both technically and game play. This is a big thing for me tbh. The last couple of years have been shocking. The evolution of game design seems to have just ground to a halt. I find myself struggling to find a game on current gen that I think is worthy of my time and money - I'm playing more retro games than ever before as a result.

Stop taking advantage of us with the morally corrupt F2P mechanics - some of these are quite shameful. I pay £50 for a game and then find that you've balanced it to get more money out of me! FIFA ultimate team is just incredible in the way it bleeds youngsters for their money!
Hey, don't use the word "us" when you're talking about yourself! I really enjoy modern games in all their forms and I'm definitely part of a majority there. I find the comment about bleeding "us" dry completely laughable tbh. The games industry has been selling the same stuff over and over right from the very start. F2P & things like FIFA Ultimate Team are no worse than the old arcades, which were ruthless in their cynical robbery.
If it's slower than me, dumber than me and it tastes good ... tough titty.

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thingonaspring
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by thingonaspring » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:20 am

Megamixer wrote:I wonder though...if one of us posting in this thread suddenly got into games development and became really successful at it and then had their stuff pirated would the same laid-back response about copyright being flawed still be wheeled out? Would we really try and justify the actions of those taking from us?

Think this is a really good discussion by the way.
one of my friends did exactly that. he used to pirate games all of the time, always asking why other people in our office paid for them. released a game on iOs etc that was actually pretty successful, and spent all his savings (about £11k) on marketing. just about broke even, then spent a long time complaining about everybody pirating his game :lol: :D

Gigifusc
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by Gigifusc » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:29 am

The Beans wrote: Hey, don't use the word "us" when you're talking about yourself!
Fixed. Thanks for pointing that out. :)

Gigifusc
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by Gigifusc » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:36 am

Megamixer wrote:I didn't know you had worked in the industry so that's fair enough and I certainly won't argue the above post.

Did you though feel disappointed that something you'd personally worked on was pirated? As if people didn't respect what you'd done enough to warrant spending 69p? I just feel that if I'd created something that 90% of people decided to just take rather give a trivial fee for, I'd be angry and very disappointed. Obviously however you've been there and I'd be interested to know your personal feelings rather than from a business viewpoint, your developer's experience taken into account.
You can argue any points mate - just because I work in the industry doesn't make me anymore right than you!! LOL.

I only felt dissapointed because of the money TBH because we didn't make any! LOL. But I guess I understand the mentality of piracy too well to know that many of those people simply would never have paid the 69p anyway! I didn't really see it as a reflection of the quality of our game - I was more than happy with the game.

I simply did the math - X% of people are going to pirate it. The rest will pay. The first part of my equation was correct, the second wasn't. :)

The 'creator' part of me takes some comfort in the fact that a whole bunch of people have played what we made. There's a LOT of games that even their d/s are tiny. I read something recently that stated a high percentage of indie developed iOS games get downloaded only a few thousand times! We did better than average on that front at least. :)

Gigifusc
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by Gigifusc » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:42 am

The Beans wrote:The games industry has been selling the same stuff over and over right from the very start. Yes. and Piracy has been there from the very start - coincidence?

F2P & things like FIFA Ultimate Team are no worse than the old arcades, which were ruthless in their cynical robbery.
I was never a huge coin op player tbh as a direct result of the potential cost involved in learning and playing a game. So I'm not the best person to talk about the similarity as I'd be making too many assumptions.
:)

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The Beans
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by The Beans » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:58 am

Gigifusc wrote:
The Beans wrote:The games industry has been selling the same stuff over and over right from the very start. Yes. and Piracy has been there from the very start - coincidence?
Absolutely a coincidence.
You seem to be saying many of us had C90 tapes packed with pirated games back in the day because we were jaded by the same old same old etc. A silly notion IMO.
Pirating was rife because we wanted to play everything without paying and it was easily done. And everbody seemed to be doing it.
If it's slower than me, dumber than me and it tastes good ... tough titty.

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gman72
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by gman72 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:00 am

The Beans wrote:Hey, don't use the word "us" when you're talking about yourself! I really enjoy modern games in all their forms.
I couldn't agree more, Beans.
I didnt set up this thread up to judge other people's justifications for piracy so won't comment on that but I would say I am often dismayed at the level of contempt for modern gaming on here. Not sure if I should be surprised as it is a retro forum... but it still surprises me. :D Apologies for going off topic.
Last edited by gman72 on Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
“To gain your own voice, you have to forget about having it heard.” —Allen Ginsberg, WD

Gigifusc
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by Gigifusc » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:09 am

The Beans wrote:
Gigifusc wrote:
The Beans wrote:The games industry has been selling the same stuff over and over right from the very start. Yes. and Piracy has been there from the very start - coincidence?
Absolutely a coincidence.
You seem to be saying many of us had C90 tapes packed with pirated games back in the day because we were jaded by the same old same old etc. A silly notion IMO.
Pirating was rife because we wanted to play everything without paying and it was easily done. And everbody seemed to be doing it.
The cost of 8bit games were about £10 back in the day. Video games were largely a childrens entertainment medium back than. I know I couldn't afford to buy more than a few games back then. So I'd say cost was very important - that's borne out by the success of budget games selling for £1.99 - many of those companies made a LOT of money.

I'd also say that very quickly I learned that a lot of games were sub standard. This made me reluctant to spend that large amount of money unless I knew for sure it was a good game that I would enjoy. With no internet and only monthly magazines to rely on this made buying from a point of knowledge often quite difficult.

One of the ways around that was the school yard copying mentality that most kids partook in. But there was a flaw - once I've got and played a pirate version of a game, even if I liked it I probably wouldn't then go on and buy it. So I'd say there was a big slice of - not being jaded as you say - but mistrust.

And then on top of that, of course you're right - we simply wanted to play as many games as possible. Largely because we were all addicted to the bloody things!! :)

The thing that I don't understand is - how come I've got SO many games from back then? I've still got a cupboard full of original 8 & 16 games. I wonder if piracy didn't kick in for me until the console era kicked in??? Interesting.

Gigifusc
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by Gigifusc » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:10 am

gman72 wrote:
The Beans wrote:Hey, don't use the word "us" when you're talking about yourself! I really enjoy modern games in all their forms.
I couldn't agree more, Beans.
I didnt set up this thread up to judge other people's justifications for piracy so won't comment on that but I would say I am often dimayed at the level of contempt for modern gaming on here. Not sure if I should be surprised as it is a retro forum... but it still surprises me. :D Apologies for going off topic.
I did change my original post tbf. :)

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gman72
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by gman72 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:14 am

Gigifusc wrote:
gman72 wrote:
The Beans wrote:Hey, don't use the word "us" when you're talking about yourself! I really enjoy modern games in all their forms.
I couldn't agree more, Beans.
I didnt set up this thread up to judge other people's justifications for piracy so won't comment on that but I would say I am often dimayed at the level of contempt for modern gaming on here. Not sure if I should be surprised as it is a retro forum... but it still surprises me. :D Apologies for going off topic.
I did change my original post tbf. :)
Not a dig at you, mate. Just something I notice from time to time. :D
“To gain your own voice, you have to forget about having it heard.” —Allen Ginsberg, WD

Gigifusc
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by Gigifusc » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:36 am

gman72 wrote:quote="The Beans"]Hey, don't use the word "us" when you're talking about yourself! I really enjoy modern games in all their forms./quote

I couldn't agree more, Beans.
I didnt set up this thread up to judge other people's justifications for piracy so won't comment on that but I would say I am often dimayed at the level of contempt for modern gaming on here. Not sure if I should be surprised as it is a retro forum... but it still surprises me. :D Apologies for going off topic.
I did change my original post tbf. :)[/quote]
Not a dig at you, mate. Just something I notice from time to time. :D[/quote]

/thumbsup smiley
:)

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theantmeister
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by theantmeister » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:56 am

I grew up in a country where piracy was the norm. From trading floppy discs at school (and even making copies on school hardware) to the pirated famicom and megadrive games from China. That's real piracy, BTW. A few teenagers downloading cracked copies off of CoD is nothing compared to that kind of industrial level pirating. But I digress...

I'm happy to say that I don't have to justify using pirated software now, because I am reformed. Well...mostly. I don't pirate movies, music or games these days, but I do still have a ROM collection. I even paid full price for my Windows 7 license :shock:

I do still get friends offering me pirated things, but I always turn them down. I actually feel really awkward about it and they do seem to treat me as some kind of pariah when I say no.

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David
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by David » Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:16 am

When I had a Dreamcast recently every single game I had was a copy, due to mainly all the second hand dc stuff being in awful condition now, and for stuff like the English translation of fire pro d and neo geo emulators

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