Can you justify using pirated software.

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Are you able to justify using pirated software and if so how?

Poll ended at Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:08 am

1. YES
14
47%
2. NO
14
47%
3. It's too deep for me. I can't make a decision
2
7%
 
Total votes: 30

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sirpigmeat
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by sirpigmeat » Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:02 pm

I tend to pirate stuff I can't afford or get elsewhere, in which case no-ones losing out on money... I'll always then buy it legally if I can manage it. I also find it a great way to find out if somethings any good... In which case you can buy a copy to support the developers... Or if it stinks, screw em they didn't deserve your cash anyway.

the1980gamer
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by the1980gamer » Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:18 pm

we all justify our own actions to ourselves and i have downloaded roms and iso's myself.
I did it when the consoles and games where no longer available, and to see if i could mod consoles and burn games myself as i found it interesting to learn.
the first time i did it was years ago when i got a dreamcast and found out that you could burn and play games without modding the console.
i had no money at the time so i burned a few games i was interested in and the games i liked i went on to buy from ebay and charity shops etc, and eventually threw the burned games away.

I was then given a chipped ps1 console and only burned games that i couldn't find or afford to buy (i mean £100 plus rpg's) for example.
at one point i had 49 retail bought games so in my mind i was doing no harm.

thrill kill was an un-released game for the ps1 but someone had uploaded the iso to torrent sites and i got to play a game that there was no other way of getting and for me ( even at my age ) i thought it was really cool.

The most recent one i modded was the wii.
my kids have had one from new and the full price retail bought games collection stands at 83 (my other half wont set foot in cex, she wont buy anything second hand unlike me who don't care) so i just did it to see if i could and to play some old roms of games i dont yet have for my snes and megadrive.

I wont be doing it any more as i now earn enough money to pay for all the games i want and i love having my ps3, xbox360 and xbox one collections on my shelf.

I only did it out of curiosity and to see if i could but i much prefer the real thing.
check out my youtube channel at, http://www.youtube.com/user/the1980gamer

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retrojc
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by retrojc » Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:32 pm

nah, i like the boxes too much.

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Analog
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by Analog » Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:04 pm

I have used it for copies of windows. only once that I remember. couldn't afford it at the time and didn't know whether i'd like the user interface or that version. I did try to buy a full version when I was flush after using a trial only to find out I couldn't upgrade, that sort of put me off and I just ended up torrenting a full version. bad, I know and I can't really justify using it. other than that I pirated a couple of pc games in the early 00's, the only one I did actually use a lot was gta 3. the rest I never bothered to play. I have since bought a copy of that game from steam, annoyingly I can't get it to work with my pc. the pirated version I used back in the early 00's was easier to sort out than the steam version lol. other things, when I sold my ps1 (which I regret) I copied all the games I had (which I had previously bought) onto discs to use with a ps1 emulator, not sure if that counts? isn't it legal to make backups of games? but then I didn't own them anymore, so it probably was illegal. anyway, I've rebought most of them years later when I got into retro gaming. I have downloaded roms of gba games that I can't find brand new, I also didn't want to take a risk on buying something second hand if I didn't like it. I have intentions of buying those games second hand if I can find them at a reasonable price.... if I can't (i'm not paying hundreds for a copy of ninja 5'0 despite how bloody good it is!) so i'll stick with the flash cart or wait for them to pop up on the eshop.

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Megamixer
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by Megamixer » Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:16 pm

I voted "no".

Reason being that there is no justification. Morally...perhaps people can convince themselves but legally? No chance.

Regardless of whether a publisher is doing anything with their old IP, it doesn't give us - the consumer - the right to decide that pirating the software is fair game. It's their property and not ours. Whether they are doing anything with it or not doesn't even come into it. As far as retro games go, it also isn't the consumer's right to decide that something is okay to pirate just because it has aged a certain number of years or has been obsolete for X amount of time. All of these reasons that gamers come up with do not negate written law and wouldn't stand up if piracy was actually chased properly by the authorities and dealt with on the same level as drugs, weapon traficking etc.

Having said all of that, we all do it even if it's playing on MAME. Downloading a rom of that old arcade game which is unavailable in any other way is illegal no matter what kind of justification you can try to conjure up. As I say, we all do it or have done it at some point so I would never flame somebody for doing it BUT I think it's important to realise that you can enjoy the likes of MAME while also accepting that it's illegal. Just because you use such roms, it doesn't mean you have to try and defend it.

I do wonder what our stances would be on the subject if piracy was properly tackled and downloaders were traced through the internet and punished in courts. I don't think it would ever happen (the focus is on shutting down the source not the consumer) but it's an interesting thought.
Retro is a state of mind, and cares not for your puny concepts like dates and calendars.

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JoeNTMY
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by JoeNTMY » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:28 pm

I don't pirate ANYTHING. I'm more than happy to spend my money on a product if I like it.
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outdated_gamer
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by outdated_gamer » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:07 pm

Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka "Secret of Mana 2"), one of the many excellent SNES action role-playing games that you couldn't have played without importing an expensive copy and knowing Japanese:

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Star Fox 2, the never officially released sequel to SNES' Star Fox:

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Mother 3 aka "Earthbound 2", never released outside of Japan and difficult to play without the fan translation:

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Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, one of the best Arcade side-scrolling beat em ups that never received a home port:

Image

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RodimusPrime
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by RodimusPrime » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:20 pm

All different to pirating a brand new commercial release.

I will never ever change my stance on pirating new releases. However the instances above are something I certainly feel less passionate about. and can certainly agree with your previous argument about introducing games that would never otherwise be available to people.

I guess for me it boils down to what kind of piracy are we talking about.

Gigifusc
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by Gigifusc » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:03 am

crusto wrote:If we are talking in terms of new titles I can't see how there could be any good in pirating them. All it achieves is a lost sale and I can't see how that can be justified.

In retro terms things are different and less clear cut, for reasons discussed elsewhere...
It's not a justification but more a side note - the idea of a 'lost sale' has been shown to be a completely incorrect statistic simply because not every pirated version would have equaled a sale. So that makes it a percentage instead. I've no idea what that percentage actually is but I remember reading something about it being much lower than you'd expect. (I might have made that up though so beware!!) :)

The main argument is a cyclical one IMO. Piracy is against the law any which way you spin it but who's to say the law is right? Certainly in many other aspects (such as human rights) we know it to be very wrong or at least be so corruptible as to be as good as wrong.

If I create something who says it belongs to me? Copyright law. But copyright law exists as a human mode code of conduct. Again, we know that those are open to corruption and often wrong. So where do we go now?

Ok. So now I've muddied the water with legal BS, what's next? Morals.

In the eyes of many people the creators of the thing that we hold so dear are so greedy and dysfunctional that it justifies piracy. How many times have you spent £20, £30 or £50 on a game you were really looking forward to to then realise it was pretty censored? Hell we've got decades of god awful film and movie tie ins to show that. So if you're abusing the public isn't it hypocritical if you cry foul when the public abuses you?

Ok, you might argue that the buyer should do their homework and read reviews to see that Game X was rubbish. But it really doesn't work that way. Not everyone has the understanding of video games that many of us do. I'd say 90% of my extended family don't understand VG's. What's good, what's bad, what's the age rating? They haven't got a clue. Some people might say 'well, tough on them'. But that's a pretty harsh POV IMO. Lack of understanding of something shouldn't make you open to abuse because, y'know, that's immoral right?

Look at F2P games. They are designed to hook people in - they are designed specifically to get players addicted so that they'll pay to continue playing. The biggest F2P games on the market use human psychology to achieve that aim FFS. The mechanics of F2P games are so close to gambling machines that it's not funny. So again I ask - if you're happy to manipulate people in this way, it's difficult to feel pity when people pirate your games.

So where does that leave us? I have no idea. All I know is that the concept and argument of piracy is much more complex and deeper than most people think.

Disclaimer: I don't necessarily believe what I've said above I'm just pointing out that side of the argument.

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gman72
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by gman72 » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:39 am

outdated_gamer wrote:Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka "Secret of Mana 2"), one of the many excellent SNES action role-playing games that you couldn't have played without importing an expensive copy and knowing Japanese:

Image


Star Fox 2, the never officially released sequel to SNES' Star Fox:

Image


Mother 3 aka "Earthbound 2", never released outside of Japan and difficult to play without the fan translation:

Image


Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, one of the best Arcade side-scrolling beat em ups that never received a home port:

Image
I would have to agree with outdated gamer here... there is a first time for everything :wink:
Playing the Mother 3 fan translation on my JXD is pure joy and something i could not do properly without downloading an illegal rom.
“To gain your own voice, you have to forget about having it heard.” —Allen Ginsberg, WD

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Megamixer
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by Megamixer » Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:47 pm

Gigifusc wrote:In the eyes of many people the creators of the thing that we hold so dear are so greedy and dysfunctional that it justifies piracy.
Perhaps with the publishers and company overlords but with older games that weren't produced in the mega-studio environment that we know of today, I tend to remember the people who toiled away on a game from the initial concept through to final product. As you say though, it's a muddy issue and if we start asking if laws are correct and all that then where will it all end?!?
gman72 wrote:I would have to agree with outdated gamer here... there is a first time for everything :wink:
Playing the Mother 3 fan translation on my JXD is pure joy and something i could not do properly without downloading an illegal rom.
Is it different though if you own the rom to play + the original Japanese retail release? I know a lot of people won't bother but some people do it that way. It's like translation patches that require an original copy of the game to run the patch or to create a patched back-up...sure you're playing a cracked copy of said game but you also have the original version so...
Retro is a state of mind, and cares not for your puny concepts like dates and calendars.

Gigifusc
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by Gigifusc » Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:33 pm

Megamixer wrote:Perhaps with the publishers and company overlords but with older games that weren't produced in the mega-studio environment that we know of today, I tend to remember the people who toiled away on a game from the initial concept through to final product. As you say though, it's a muddy issue and if we start asking if laws are correct and all that then where will it all end?!?
I'm not so sure you know. We have this rose tinted view of the golden era of video games but I have often read the most terrible stories from the 8 and 16 bit days. Publishers completely abusing coders, running teenagers into the ground, completely ripping them off. There's tons of stories of our heroes who wrote our best loved games that never recieved a penny!

Move that into the behaviour of even the beloved Nintendo who used to use bully boy tactics to control who wrote games for the NES & SNES but also behaved terribly to retail.

I'm afraid the truth is that publishers & platform holders have been misbehaving since the days of the first wave of commercial video games. :(

Does any of the justify piracy? I don't know. Certainly in some people's eye it does.

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JoeNTMY
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by JoeNTMY » Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:56 pm

I think a large part of people pirating software, or anything else for that matter, is the fact that you're extremely unlikely to be prosecuted for it. How many people that are pirates would steal a game, CD, Blu-ray, etc from a shop? That's my personal view.
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rossi46
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by rossi46 » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:15 pm

I've thought about this all day.

I've bought enough legit software in the last 30 years to pay off a small nation's debt. I don't think the op is clear enough in his definition of 'software'. Do you mean retro games? If so, I don't care about using rooms or torrented old school stuff. I'm quite happy to fill my emus with old roms and game rips.

I also use a well known multi national company's video editing software suite which was 'acquired'. I figure they can take the hit.

Since the launch of the ps4 I reckon I've spent well into 4 figures on new and full priced stuff.

Bottom line I guess is I'm not really bothered. There's more to worry about than a few tunes or old games.
Thoughts and prayers.

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gman72
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Re: Can you justify using pirated software.

Post by gman72 » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:54 pm

I don't think i need to be any clearer software is software, if it's not freeware and you are not paying for it then its piracy. If you justify your personal piracy by saying that its ok to pirate old roms then fine. I wouldn't disagree with you, I pirate retro roms too but I believe it can still be harmful to the industry under certain circumstances. We are in fact exactly the same I spend tons per anum on legit games and that helps me justify downloading older roms illegally... doesn't make it right but there you go. :D
“To gain your own voice, you have to forget about having it heard.” —Allen Ginsberg, WD

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