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Re: Gaming predictions for 2015

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:08 pm
by RodimusPrime
Megamixer wrote:
silvergunner wrote:I
I will give my personal experience of what piracy did to the PS1 and DS

Working in a games shop from 96 onwards the Playstation was starting to become more popular. Then about Christmas time of 96 onwards the sales of the machine really picked up. I mean any big release would sell huge numbers, anywhere from 30-50 copies that first weekend. This was just a small independent shop I was working for to.

When it became super easy to pirate for the machine and Everyman and his dog was chipping machines you were lucky to sell 8 copies of a given title over the first weekend. Sales were destroyed just like that, so the whole piracy stimulates software sales is bull. Hardware to an extent yes but there is no money in hardware.

Going forward a few years the amount of DS consoles i would sell was massive. You would just fleetingly ask with every sale if there was any particular game they were after to go with the machine. More often the reply was "nope I'm getting an R4 card and downloading everything. Did not want to even pay that for the DS" I used to steam with rage thinking "you are complaining about the price of the console yet you are never going spend another penny on a single game!" You can think what a tight git you are sir dressed in you're fancy clothes. You stopped asking in the end as you knew the response.

That really did gring my gears when I used to sell games for a living.
The irony of anything like this is that people pirating games obviously want to play them and therefore want the developers to keep making them, sequels etc. How they expect studios to spend thousands/millions of pounds and untold hours of labouring on a game and then have the right to pay sod all for it is unbelievable. If everybody was the same then there would be no games because there would be no incentive for anybody to bother producing them.

I know a guy who is a fanatical PC gamer who will pay a fortune for upgrades.

Comes to games however and he pointblank refuses, he calls people idiots for buying new games, But then he gets all self rightous if a game he wants is cancelled or delayed.

Guess what mate, those people buying the games are the ones financing the release of the next game in your favorite franchise.

Take the assassins creed games for example, he loves them and has completed every single one and never paid for a single copy.

This is a guy that goes on to forums and complains that as a fan of the series they deserve more additional content and addons. This despite not, you know, actually paying for the games.

self entitled does not even begin to describe it.

His excuse, get this, despite loving and completing every game he has decided that he will only pay full price if they release a game he feels deserves it.

I can't even begin to fathom how guys like this think. I asked himwhat he would do if piracy never existed, his answer " oh I would just buy them then ". ok well then why not buy them now. " because I can get them for free "

So I ask him what he would do if they could not make another one due to not enough funds, his response " oh it will be fine, plenty of other idiots out there that will actually pay for the games "

I have ran across a few people like this, and if you want to know why I hate pirates with a passion then there you go. Also don't tell me that it does not affect sales, every one I talked to admit that they would just have to buy the games if there was no piracy.

Re: Gaming predictions for 2015

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:11 pm
by aztecca
gman72 wrote:opinions are like bumholes we all have one and they often stink.

This is True but the ones that stink the most often,usually stink the worst.

Re: Gaming predictions for 2015

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:13 pm
by The Beans
Megamixer wrote:
silvergunner wrote:I
I will give my personal experience of what piracy did to the PS1 and DS

Working in a games shop from 96 onwards the Playstation was starting to become more popular. Then about Christmas time of 96 onwards the sales of the machine really picked up. I mean any big release would sell huge numbers, anywhere from 30-50 copies that first weekend. This was just a small independent shop I was working for to.

When it became super easy to pirate for the machine and Everyman and his dog was chipping machines you were lucky to sell 8 copies of a given title over the first weekend. Sales were destroyed just like that, so the whole piracy stimulates software sales is bull. Hardware to an extent yes but there is no money in hardware.

Going forward a few years the amount of DS consoles i would sell was massive. You would just fleetingly ask with every sale if there was any particular game they were after to go with the machine. More often the reply was "nope I'm getting an R4 card and downloading everything. Did not want to even pay that for the DS" I used to steam with rage thinking "you are complaining about the price of the console yet you are never going spend another penny on a single game!" You can think what a tight git you are sir dressed in you're fancy clothes. You stopped asking in the end as you knew the response.

That really did gring my gears when I used to sell games for a living.
The irony of anything like this is that people pirating games obviously want to play them and therefore want the developers to keep making them, sequels etc. How they expect studios to spend thousands/millions of pounds and untold hours of labouring on a game and then have the right to pay sod all for it is unbelievable. If everybody was the same then there would be no games because there would be no incentive for anybody to bother producing them.
The real irony is that with just a few minor changes to your post we're talking about pre-owned games, which are considered a moral right by most gamers and yet lead to the same result. Go figure.

Re: Gaming predictions for 2015

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:20 pm
by RodimusPrime
The Beans wrote:
Megamixer wrote:
silvergunner wrote:I
I will give my personal experience of what piracy did to the PS1 and DS

Working in a games shop from 96 onwards the Playstation was starting to become more popular. Then about Christmas time of 96 onwards the sales of the machine really picked up. I mean any big release would sell huge numbers, anywhere from 30-50 copies that first weekend. This was just a small independent shop I was working for to.

When it became super easy to pirate for the machine and Everyman and his dog was chipping machines you were lucky to sell 8 copies of a given title over the first weekend. Sales were destroyed just like that, so the whole piracy stimulates software sales is bull. Hardware to an extent yes but there is no money in hardware.

Going forward a few years the amount of DS consoles i would sell was massive. You would just fleetingly ask with every sale if there was any particular game they were after to go with the machine. More often the reply was "nope I'm getting an R4 card and downloading everything. Did not want to even pay that for the DS" I used to steam with rage thinking "you are complaining about the price of the console yet you are never going spend another penny on a single game!" You can think what a tight git you are sir dressed in you're fancy clothes. You stopped asking in the end as you knew the response.

That really did gring my gears when I used to sell games for a living.
The irony of anything like this is that people pirating games obviously want to play them and therefore want the developers to keep making them, sequels etc. How they expect studios to spend thousands/millions of pounds and untold hours of labouring on a game and then have the right to pay sod all for it is unbelievable. If everybody was the same then there would be no games because there would be no incentive for anybody to bother producing them.
The real irony is that with just a few minor changes to your post we're talking about pre-owned games, which are considered a moral right by most gamers and yet lead to the same result. Go figure.

I know there is a big thing about used games as well, but to be honest I don't consider used games to be on the same level as pirated games.

I see kids going in to trade games and take in around 4-5 games and then turn around and use that money to go and buy a new release. A lot of guys on the " what have you bought recently " talk about trading in old games to fund new purchases.

Re: Gaming predictions for 2015

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:30 pm
by Megamixer
The Beans wrote:The real irony is that with just a few minor changes to your post we're talking about pre-owned games, which are considered a moral right by most gamers and yet lead to the same result. Go figure.
There is truth in that and I won't try to argue otherwise. For me, I never buy pre-owned because it's cheaper or because I don't want the money to go to publisher/developer. I buy games second-hand because there are that many that I'm interested in, I physically can't buy them all due to a) money and b) the fact that they are likely to go out of print before I can get them (my tastes are a bit more obscure and niche).

If I could buy them all new at full RRP then I would, even if there was a way to get them for free via unscrupulous means. As it is, I pay full whack for all of my must-haves and then have to decide what games I would class as '2nd tier'. If they are still available new when I'm able to get them then I will purchase them as new. If not then I have no choice but to go pre-owned. It's not because I believe I have a right to swindle the publishers or get everything at a fiver.

I do see what you are saying though. I guess it boils down to whether somebody is doing something maliciously or not. But this could go around in circles forever.

Re: Gaming predictions for 2015

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:35 pm
by Analog
the way a lot of musicians and bands make money these days despite piracy is because people listen to them, like what they hear and then go and see them live. either that or buy merchandise. as a consequence a lot of bands/producers/musicians don't turn a profit on albums and simply target all their efforts into live performance and other methods of revenue. I have personally witnessed this happen within music scenes over the last 10 years, so much so that some bands voluntarily give their music away free with the incentive that people will take an interest in them. so as far as piracy helping musicians out, I think there is some truth there. as for the gaming scene, really don't know at all, there would need to be something where devs could make money alternatively but I don't think its really quite the same here. I think steam pretty much stopped a lot of piracy on pc, a lot of people who were interested in piracy saw the cheap prices on steam and figured this was just as good. not much of a tradeoff like how postiedoc stated. it wouldn't surprise me if the vast majority of stolen games these days come from retro sources, for example downloading a library of games for an old legacy platform and using an emulator, there is less of a moral angle here though since if you cannot pay the people who make the games directly anymore (the games aren't available new anymore) then you may as well get it for free unless you feel like supporting your local game trading store or paying other gamers through second hand trading.

I agree with silvergunner in that gaming NEEDS something else to generate the sorts of revenue films like frozen have. the industry could do with a serious kick up the arse in this department, personally i'd love to see that happen, a tone of stuff that is branded for a favourite game or game franchise, currently what do we have? the odd figurine made for a game or a collectors edition.

Re: Gaming predictions for 2015

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:36 pm
by aztecca
Exactly what i was thinking mr beans.i dont agree piracy helps the developers.but over the years i have bought 1000s of games probably like a lot of folks on here.95% of them have been preowned from game/ebay etc.Even if it is a brand new game i want i will leave it a couple of days after release and buy a preowned one saving myself £5-£10.And how much money of that purchase are the developers getting nowt thats how much.I suppose every one on here only eats fair trade bannanas and coffee etc and paying more for it so they can feel good about themselves by knowing that the person who put the work into producing the product gets the there fair share.I have read through a few of these threads now and i do get a whiff of hypocrisy.

Re: Gaming predictions for 2015

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:42 pm
by RodimusPrime
aztecca wrote:Exactly what i was thinking mr beans.i dont agree piracy helps the developers.but over the years i have bought 1000s of games probably like a lot of folks on here.95% of them have been preowned from game/ebay etc.Even if it is a brand new game i want i will leave it a couple of days after release and buy a preowned one saving myself £5-£10.And how much money of that purchase are the developers getting nowt thats how much.I suppose every one on here only eats fair trade bannanas and coffee etc and paying more for it so they can feel good about themselves by knowing that the person who put the work into producing the product gets the there fair share.I have read through a few of these threads now and i do get a whiff of hypocrisy.
I dont actually see a problem with preowned games, its still money being circulated. Plus people who buy preowned games are still predisposed to buying original copies and still spend money on new games that they really want.

I bet you have traded copies in the past and used that money to fund a new release at least a couiple of times.

Re: Gaming predictions for 2015

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:25 pm
by markopoloman
Did 2015 bring in a whole new era of anger? Why all the swearing and name calling?
Beans - why do want me to ban you?

When i get in later, i will go through the thread and edit/deal with reports etc. 2015 so far is a report-a-thon. :roll:

Re: Gaming predictions for 2015

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:31 pm
by gman72
I dont think he wants you to ban him, Marko, he just doesn't suffer fools gladly and let his temper get the better of him. :D

Re: Gaming predictions for 2015

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:48 pm
by The Beans
gman72 wrote:I dont think he wants you to ban him, Marko, he just doesn't suffer fools gladly and let his temper get the better of him. :D
Hey, if I'd been angry when I posted I'd have used this :evil: instead of this :roll:

My temper only ever gets the better of me when I'm playing Battlefield 4 online multiplayer and my team comprises of retards, campers and boosters.

Re: Gaming predictions for 2015

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:32 pm
by PostieDoc
The Beans wrote:
gman72 wrote:I dont think he wants you to ban him, Marko, he just doesn't suffer fools gladly and let his temper get the better of him. :D
Hey, if I'd been angry when I posted I'd have used this :evil: instead of this :roll:

My temper only ever gets the better of me when I'm playing Battlefield 4 online multiplayer and my team comprises of retards, campers and boosters.
As long you don't use this :wink: please for the love of God!

Re: Gaming predictions for 2015

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:37 pm
by PostieDoc
aztecca wrote:Exactly what i was thinking mr beans.i dont agree piracy helps the developers.but over the years i have bought 1000s of games probably like a lot of folks on here.95% of them have been preowned from game/ebay etc.Even if it is a brand new game i want i will leave it a couple of days after release and buy a preowned one saving myself £5-£10.And how much money of that purchase are the developers getting nowt thats how much.I suppose every one on here only eats fair trade bannanas and coffee etc and paying more for it so they can feel good about themselves by knowing that the person who put the work into producing the product gets the there fair share.I have read through a few of these threads now and i do get a whiff of hypocrisy.
The one thing I would argue against you on this post is that if someone buys a pre-owned game, at least that game was an original sale to start with.
When someone pirates a game it is just theft from the very start. No money goes to the developer at all.

It is only a matter of time before the consoles follow the PC model and every game comes with a verification code tying it to your account, even physical copies.
No matter how you feel about gaming on PC, the system is the trend setter due to its open nature and ease to experiment with.

Re: Gaming predictions for 2015

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:26 pm
by HalcyonDaze00
When i get in later, i will go through the thread and edit/deal with reports etc. 2015 so far is a report-a-thon
good grief!

it always amazes me that grown men are sat there hitting the report button because somebody has said something they don't like, or perhaps called them a name, like it's the end of the fcuking world.

would love to see a list of the people who are hitting the report button, they should be told to grow a set of b0llocks and stop being so mard.

Re: Gaming predictions for 2015

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:47 pm
by aztecca
HalcyonDaze00 wrote:
When i get in later, i will go through the thread and edit/deal with reports etc. 2015 so far is a report-a-thon
good grief!

it always amazes me that grown men are sat there hitting the report button because somebody has said something they don't like, or perhaps called them a name, like it's the end of the fcuking world.

would love to see a list of the people who are hitting the report button, they should be told to grow a set of b0llocks and stop being so mard.
Damn right there exactly what thought.Its pathetic.