Dad makes son only play retro games for ten years

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The Beans
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Re: Dad makes son only play retro games for ten years

Post by The Beans » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:57 am

nakamura wrote:That's frankly stupid.
Not as stupid as claiming Super Mario World is the pinnacle of game design as an undeniable fact. It might be in your opinion but plenty of other people will say otherwise. The game will always be a classic but that doesn't necessarily it mean it will always be a great game. As time moves on so does the perception of taste. Video games aren't timeless. Nothing is. Your opinion is clouding your objectivity I think.
If it's slower than me, dumber than me and it tastes good ... tough titty.

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Sephiroth81
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Re: Dad makes son only play retro games for ten years

Post by Sephiroth81 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:42 am

RodimusPrime wrote:
nakamura wrote:There are differences all over. Technology can make a vehicle go faster than ever, hence record car speeds or performance bicycles. Yet many people can love the more direct feel of say a bike without suspension or a car without power steering.

Music, movies, games etc are art. A great movie will always be a great movie. A great book will always be just that. Just because something in new that doesn't automatically mean it will be better.

I know that, but to the average person they still want the newer things. Same as games. Casablanca is a great movie, I don't want to watch it, a Shakespeare book, I dont want to read that. I understand they are considered great, But I have no interest in them.

As gamers we have to take that into account when we are saying newer gamers should play and appreciate the older games.
Any art form can be timeless. There are undeniably great music and films before we were born (ie pre 1980s) and can be appreciated by all ages. You make the specific choice to ignore them, and thats your choice, but i absolutely adore the 1950s/60's music and movie scene, and think my life would be a duller existence without experiencing the music of The Beatles, Stones, Kinks, Beach Boys, The Who, Led Zeppelin (the list is endless), or the spectacular films of that period of Stanley Kubrick, Sergio Leone or Alfred Hitchcock.

I guess people don't miss though what they don't know.

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outdated_gamer
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Re: Dad makes son only play retro games for ten years

Post by outdated_gamer » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:20 pm

Of course some games are timeless. What are Tetris, Pac-Man, Super Mario, Sonic, Doom, Street Fighter II, ect. then? :wink:

Classic games that you can pick up and enjoy any time, hence timeless games. As for SMW being tops in terms of platformer design - SMW 2 aka Yoshi's Island defecates all over it, IMO, even if for some it might be a bit too cute of a game (not as severe as Yoshi's Story was tho), with the whiny baby Mario distracting them from enjoying it. :wink:

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The Beans
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Re: Dad makes son only play retro games for ten years

Post by The Beans » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:59 am

outdated_gamer wrote:Of course some games are timeless. What are Tetris, Pac-Man, Super Mario, Sonic, Doom, Street Fighter II, ect. then? :wink:
They're all old games that relatively few people are interested in playing. :wink:

And as time moves on less and less people will be interested in them. :wink:
If it's slower than me, dumber than me and it tastes good ... tough titty.

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Sephiroth81
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Re: Dad makes son only play retro games for ten years

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:21 am

The Beans wrote:
outdated_gamer wrote:Of course some games are timeless. What are Tetris, Pac-Man, Super Mario, Sonic, Doom, Street Fighter II, ect. then? :wink:
They're all old games that relatively few people are interested in playing. :wink:

And as time moves on less and less people will be interested in them. :wink:
I guess the "wink" smiley is you showing you are saying things in jest and teasing.

I played Street Fighter 2 the other day, its amazing how tight the controls are still - so many beat em ups fail to this day in this regard.

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RodimusPrime
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Re: Dad makes son only play retro games for ten years

Post by RodimusPrime » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:27 am

Sephiroth81 wrote:
The Beans wrote:
outdated_gamer wrote:Of course some games are timeless. What are Tetris, Pac-Man, Super Mario, Sonic, Doom, Street Fighter II, ect. then? :wink:
They're all old games that relatively few people are interested in playing. :wink:

And as time moves on less and less people will be interested in them. :wink:
I guess the "wink" smiley is you showing you are saying things in jest and teasing.

I played Street Fighter 2 the other day, its amazing how tight the controls are still - so many beat em ups fail to this day in this regard.

Thats not the point he is making, of course it still plays great, but its an old game that most people have no interest in playing. Thats what he is getting at.

All you are doing is proving my point really, when I say we are just as bad as film buffs etc. You sound just like that person who will constantly go on and on about how timeless Casablanca is and how its so much better than most modern films. To a group of casual film fans that sort of person becomes repetitive and annoying. To them its just an old film they have no interest in.

No matter how good classic games are, the general gamer has no interest in them/

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The Beans
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Re: Dad makes son only play retro games for ten years

Post by The Beans » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:27 am

For something to be "timeless" it has to stay truly relevant. The fact that a relatively small group of people can still enjoy something old doesn't make that thing timeless. It just means those people are operating outside the norms of current popular tastes. The thing they're enjoying is still old and outdated. We're unlikely to see the original Casablanca getting a full worldwide cinema release, the Ford Capri isn't going back into full production anytime soon and Shakespeare's works aren't suddenly going to become the books of choice for young teens. For the younger generation, the old games we know and love really are a hoary old crock compared to the more modern stuff out there. My grandson is often horrified by the old stuff I try to get him to play now and again. If these games really were timeless in some way there would be no such issues.
If it's slower than me, dumber than me and it tastes good ... tough titty.

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Re: Dad makes son only play retro games for ten years

Post by nakamura » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:01 pm

The Beans wrote:
nakamura wrote:That's frankly stupid.
Not as stupid as claiming Super Mario World is the pinnacle of game design as an undeniable fact. It might be in your opinion but plenty of other people will say otherwise. The game will always be a classic but that doesn't necessarily it mean it will always be a great game. As time moves on so does the perception of taste. Video games aren't timeless. Nothing is. Your opinion is clouding your objectivity I think.
It is the pinnacle of design, it's masterful. The genre hasn't really gone anywhere since it was released bar a few diversions. It's hard, and it's easy. It's creative, clever, open ended and full of things to search for and unlock. The game can be finished in 12-13 levels yet has around 70. There are subtle clues to secrets, clever markers in the level colours, subtle music changes with Yoshi. It even has early collecting cues with the Yoshi coins, 5 in pretty much each level.

I'm confident anyone that knows anything about game design would agree.
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Antiriad2097 wrote:I have a general rule of thumb that if Nakamura likes something, it's not for me ;)

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RodimusPrime
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Re: Dad makes son only play retro games for ten years

Post by RodimusPrime » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:08 pm

nakamura wrote:
The Beans wrote:
nakamura wrote:That's frankly stupid.
Not as stupid as claiming Super Mario World is the pinnacle of game design as an undeniable fact. It might be in your opinion but plenty of other people will say otherwise. The game will always be a classic but that doesn't necessarily it mean it will always be a great game. As time moves on so does the perception of taste. Video games aren't timeless. Nothing is. Your opinion is clouding your objectivity I think.
It is the pinnacle of design, it's masterful. The genre hasn't really gone anywhere since it was released bar a few diversions. It's hard, and it's easy. It's creative, clever, open ended and full of things to search for and unlock. The game can be finished in 12-13 levels yet has around 70. There are subtle clues to secrets, clever markers in the level colours, subtle music changes with Yoshi. It even has early collecting cues with the Yoshi coins, 5 in pretty much each level.

I'm confident anyone that knows anything about game design would agree.

Marioworld is actually my number 1 game of all time, but being the pinnacle of game design is purely your opinion and while many, me included TBF, there are many gamers who don't like it. A few members on here are actually not that keen on it.

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The Beans
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Re: Dad makes son only play retro games for ten years

Post by The Beans » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:51 pm

nakamura wrote:
The Beans wrote:
nakamura wrote:That's frankly stupid.
Not as stupid as claiming Super Mario World is the pinnacle of game design as an undeniable fact. It might be in your opinion but plenty of other people will say otherwise. The game will always be a classic but that doesn't necessarily it mean it will always be a great game. As time moves on so does the perception of taste. Video games aren't timeless. Nothing is. Your opinion is clouding your objectivity I think.
It is the pinnacle of design, it's masterful. The genre hasn't really gone anywhere since it was released bar a few diversions. It's hard, and it's easy. It's creative, clever, open ended and full of things to search for and unlock. The game can be finished in 12-13 levels yet has around 70. There are subtle clues to secrets, clever markers in the level colours, subtle music changes with Yoshi. It even has early collecting cues with the Yoshi coins, 5 in pretty much each level.

I'm confident anyone that knows anything about game design would agree.
Ha, all that's just the smell of fanboy. Every single one of us could take a game we really like and drone on endlessly about how it's the best game ever made. Doesn't make it so, except on a personal level.
I'd say anybody who thinks there's some sort of definable pinnacle for game design hasn't got a clue tbh.
If it's slower than me, dumber than me and it tastes good ... tough titty.

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The Laird
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Re: Dad makes son only play retro games for ten years

Post by The Laird » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:55 pm

The Beans wrote: Ha, all that's just the smell of fanboy. Every single one of us could take a game we really like and drone on endlessly about how it's the best game ever made. Doesn't make it so, except on a personal level.

I'd say anybody who thinks there's some sort of definable pinnacle for game design hasn't got a clue tbh.
Spot on.

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GigaPepsiMan
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Re: Dad makes son only play retro games for ten years

Post by GigaPepsiMan » Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:12 pm

Nakamura is correct, Super Mario World is still the most influential platformer ever made in terms of game design. Even the Rayman games have elements linking to it and Michel Ancel doesn't even like Mario games.

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RodimusPrime
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Re: Dad makes son only play retro games for ten years

Post by RodimusPrime » Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:06 pm

GigaPepsiMan wrote:Nakamura is correct, Super Mario World is still the most influential platformer ever made in terms of game design. Even the Rayman games have elements linking to it and Michel Ancel doesn't even like Mario games.

Thats funny, because a Lot of people feel that Marioworld just built upon the formula of Mario 3. Some still consider mario 3 to be the better game.

Talking in absolutes about anything makes you look Foolish TBH.

Not to mention a lot of people in the industry feel the original super mario bros was more of an influential game.

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Re: Dad makes son only play retro games for ten years

Post by quantum » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:25 am

Sometimes I really wonder why some on here spend time on a retrogamer forum when they appear to not like "old" games... :|
Image

How about a game screenshot quiz? Amiga, DOS, Megadrive and Commodore 64.

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RodimusPrime
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Re: Dad makes son only play retro games for ten years

Post by RodimusPrime » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:30 am

quantum wrote:Sometimes I really wonder why some on here spend time on a retrogamer forum when they appear to not like "old" games... :|

Like who?

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