Xbone without Kinect!

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slacey1070
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Re: Xbone without Kinect!

Post by slacey1070 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:49 am

outdated_gamer wrote: Though, one does wonder why they didn't simply make it optional since the beginning.
Because MS make a balls of the launch in many, many aspects. Kinect was only one area they mis-read the market. They had to make a number of back tracks, but at least they are offering what gamers said they wanted now, i.e. a Kinect free console.

I suspect they will end up being more aggressive with pricing in the not too distant future, unless this eats into the PS4 sales.

And some "must have" games for both the PS4 and Xbone would be nice...
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Re: Xbone without Kinect!

Post by Matt_B » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:21 am

The problem with making it optional is that developers will shun something that limits their potential market. That was not only true of Kinect, but also Move and MotionPlus last generation. Of course, it doesn't necessarily follow that they won't still shun it even if everyone's got it, and that's pretty much what's happened.

Additionally, Microsoft would have been planning the XB1 during the honeymoon period when Kinect was being well received and software was selling well for it. However, in the year prior to the launch of the XB1, enthusiasm for Kinect waned sharply when decent games failed to materialize for it, and its limitations became more widely known.

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Re: Xbone without Kinect!

Post by slacey1070 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:23 am

Matt_B wrote:The problem with making it optional is that developers will shun something that limits their potential market. That was not only true of Kinect, but also Move and MotionPlus last generation. Of course, it doesn't necessarily follow that they won't still shun it even if everyone's got it, and that's pretty much what's happened..
Yes, exactly - it almost appears that MS have killed off the Kinect v2.0, inside a few months of release.

Are there any Kinect reliant games incoming at the moment?
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Re: Xbone without Kinect!

Post by Megamixer » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:26 am

So to summarise this news, the market/prospective buyers were correct all along with regards to the XBO having more of a chance sans Kinect and it was the major worldwide business (Microsoft) who got it wrong? How embarassing for them and their latest U-turn.

It'll definitely be interesting to see if the console can start shifting bigger numbers now because it can only be better news for the gaming industry as a whole and for the development of potential future games.
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Re: Xbone without Kinect!

Post by Fightersmegamix » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:07 am

It's sad to see the loss of the Kinect in some ways though. Microsoft tried something different, granted it was a mess of a launch mixed in with online and second hand nonsense but at least they, like Nintendo, tried to make something different. Sony have been praised for making a box with a pad.

I do wish people would shut up with the 'Sony/Microsoft need to do x,y,z before I buy one' nonsense. If you don't like the look of next gen find another hobby. If you like videogames you'll buy one at some point in the future come what may so cut the bullsh*t. It's simply a matter of when and how much people are willing to pay. Some people will fork over £400 straight away, others will wait till they are £200, RG forum members about £50 :wink: . It's just tiring listening to idiots complaining that multi-billion pound multinationals don't listen to the views of people on the internet, despite the fact most of them have no intention of buying anything until it's much cheaper anyway.

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Re: Xbone without Kinect!

Post by gman72 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:12 am

Fightersmegamix wrote:
I do wish people would shut up with the 'Sony/Microsoft need to do x,y,z before I buy one' nonsense. If you don't like the look of next gen find another hobby. If you like videogames you'll buy one at some point in the future come what may so cut the bullsh*t. It's simply a matter of when and how much people are willing to pay. Some people will fork over £400 straight away, others will wait till they are £200, RG forum members about £50 :wink: . It's just tiring listening to idiots complaining that multi-billion pound multinationals don't listen to the views of people on the internet, despite the fact most of them have no intention of buying anything until it's much cheaper anyway.
Absolutely spot on, mate. I was going to stay out of this thread but I just had to chip in with a salute to the most brilliant post ever.
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Re: Xbone without Kinect!

Post by ToxieDogg » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:20 am

Fightersmegamix wrote:I do wish people would shut up with the 'Sony/Microsoft need to do x,y,z before I buy one' nonsense. If you don't like the look of next gen find another hobby. If you like videogames you'll buy one at some point in the future come what may so cut the bullsh*t. It's simply a matter of when and how much people are willing to pay. Some people will fork over £400 straight away, others will wait till they are £200, RG forum members about £50 :wink: . It's just tiring listening to idiots complaining that multi-billion pound multinationals don't listen to the views of people on the internet, despite the fact most of them have no intention of buying anything until it's much cheaper anyway.
I know this isn't a Wii U thread, (and I don't want to turn it into one) but considering the MASSIVE amount of negativity that the Wii U gets, with the extremely tiresome 'no games' argument being wheeled out the most, then I can't help but chip in when I see people seeming to base their purchase of a new console based entirely on whether it comes bundled with a bloody camera attachement thingy or not.

No, I don't want consoles to have to be £50 before I buy them :wink: but I do wish people would focus a lot more on which existing and upcoming games (seeing as this section is called 'It's all about the games' :wink: ) are worth buying rather than 'Ooh. I'd like this console just because it's new and shiny, but I refuse to buy one because I don't like the camera attachment it comes with' or 'The game controller looks a bit big for my tiny hands'.
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Re: Xbone without Kinect!

Post by Matt_B » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:09 am

Yeah, but at the same time you know what you're going to get with the XB1 and the PS4, based on what's been on offer for the last few generations of both families. So, even if the games aren't quite here yet, there'll still be plenty of people willing to take the plunge with them at least so long as the price is right.

Besides, with E3 coming up, I'm pretty sure that there'll be plenty to talk about in a couple of weeks time.

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Re: Xbone without Kinect!

Post by outdated_gamer » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:29 am

Fightersmegamix wrote:It's sad to see the loss of the Kinect in some ways though. Microsoft tried something different, granted it was a mess of a launch mixed in with online and second hand nonsense but at least they, like Nintendo, tried to make something different. Sony have been praised for making a box with a pad.
How exactly were the previous two Xboxes not "boxes (pun intended) with a pad"? :wink:

I don't see what value the added Kinect gives to the One, outside of maybe easier menu navigation and kid/family-friendly Kinect games.

Now if MS wanted to do something big with VR, it might come to expression, but you'd still need expensive headgear and another controller in combination with it.

In actuality, the majority of gamers simply wanted a more powerful "box with a pad" rather than something different. Even Nintendo had to deal with that, as we can safely say now that people buy it because of Nintendo's exclusive games rather than anything else.

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Re: Xbone without Kinect!

Post by gman72 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:38 am

In this thread there is some of the worst hipocracy i have ever read on a forum.
Go back a year and read some of the gibberish being spouted about the Kinect in the Xbox1/PS4 Discussion Thread, then look at the names of some of the people posting it, then re-read this thread... ... ...
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Re: Xbone without Kinect!

Post by pratty » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:51 am

I'm a bit surprised by this. I'm not too surprised that gamers generally haven't taken to Kinect, but I'm surprised Microsoft are willing to ditch it so soon, or at least make it optional. I thought from Microsoft's point of view half the point of Kinect was to collect marketing data via the camera, I wonder what their marketing partners make of this.

Personally I'm glad this aspect of the console is failing as I never liked the idea of my console watching me and using data about me to sell me things, the only thing I want a console for is to play games, and if it must, sell me games. I see no benefit to me that Microsoft knows I like to drink a certain brand of pop while I shoot people in the face.

It's a shame though that the console will also lose an interesting control input.
Fightersmegamix wrote:.Some people will fork over £400 straight away, others will wait till they are £200, RG forum members about £50 :wink: .
This is about right. :lol: In fairness people are totally within their right to wait for whatever price is acceptable them and free to express their intenions to do so. But I do scratch my head sometimes when I hear the Wii-U is still too dear at £200, and needs to be more like £150, because that's how much a PS3/360 is. Even if you think the Wii-U isn't 'next gen' technology, it is at least still NEW, where as the 360 and PS3 are at the end of their life cycles, new things cost more, it's always been that way. So even £250 for a Wii-U seems relatively reasonable compared to the more powerful and subsequently more expensive PS4 and Xbox One.

Similarly the "no games" thing is a bit strange. We're examining systems very early on and expecting their to be this vast library of software, as if games are made overnight. It's even harder to satisfy eveyone at launch for games when everybody has their own tastes, I'd say most people would find about 10% of any random selction of games worth playing. So even in a varied selection of 20 or so launch games, the average gamer will probably only find 2-3 games that appeals to them. But lets be realisitc, you're not going to get all your favourite games at once, nor is a launch selection going to consist of purely your favourite few genres to please you specifically, there has to be something for everyone. Of course nobody is going to pay £300-£500 just to play just a couple of games, but I always think when I buy a console it's for the long haul and just as much for the games that are yet to be released as it is for the games currently out.
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Re: Xbone without Kinect!

Post by ToxieDogg » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:55 am

Matt_B wrote:Yeah, but at the same time you know what you're going to get with the XB1 and the PS4, based on what's been on offer for the last few generations of both families. So, even if the games aren't quite here yet, there'll still be plenty of people willing to take the plunge with them at least so long as the price is right.

Besides, with E3 coming up, I'm pretty sure that there'll be plenty to talk about in a couple of weeks time.
That's the bit I find strange Matt....the Wii was very popular with families and had tons of games available, but now people aren't buying Wii Us because 'there's no games'. But people are willing to buy something with next to no games now because of stuff they might be able to play next year? :?

At any rate, I don't think this gen of consoles is as clear cut as the last one anyway...Xbox 360 and PS3 lasted for a long time and have built up massive global userbases...the new consoles are selling well but unless they start getting a fair few more exclusive games out that are on the same level or better than previous gen big hitters like Gears Of War 2, The Last Of Us, or Bioshock Infinite then they're possibly never going to reach quite the same level of success. Continuous ports with slightly better graphics (and charging £10-£15 more a time for them) really isn't going to cut it in the long run.

I've never known a gen quite like this really, when nearly all the big games where still coming out on last gen consoles even when there were two major new consoles out. :? (three if you count the Wii U, but you know what I mean in terms of how most people see it) Sure, the Xbox 360 was plagued by a lot of HD PS2 ports for the first year of it's life but then as soon as the PS3 came out, worthwhile PS2 games pretty much dried up so attention could shift straight away to the newer machines. The overlap here seems like it will be much, much longer.

Suppose it's a bit of a rock and a hard place for both Microsoft and Sony at the moment as they make a lot of cash from Xbox Live Gold and PSN+....do they risk annoying the majority of their users, who then might still not immediately migrate to the newer consoles, and also lose the cash these people pay for online subscriptions in the process?
gman72 wrote:In this thread there is some of the worst hipocracy i have ever read on a forum.
Go back a year and read some of the gibberish being spouted about the Kinect in the Xbox1/PS4 Discussion Thread, then look at the names of some of the people posting it, then re-read this thread... ... ...
Oh do stop exaggerating and being so melodramatic. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Anything I might have said several months ago (which of course is subject to change after debating with people like, you know...youself) with regards to how attractive Xbox One was to me with or without Kinect absolutely pales in comparison to the fact that fast forward to now, 7 months after it's release and there's still barely any worthwhile exclusives that make me want to buy one....none of us could've predicted such a games drought by now, even the Wii U had Lego City Undercover, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, Game & Wario and a set dates for Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101 by this stage in it's life and that's saying something.

There's also the fact that back then, none of us (not even you) could have predicted how much the user would be 'forced' to use Kinect or how useful it would be or in exactly what way it would be implemented and there were a lot of scaremongering stories going about...I was mostly worried about being bombarded with ads. Microsoft of course could have allayed a lot of my (and other people's) fears by showcasing it a lot better with some games using it's features but did they? That thread became a massive chore to read in the end (and I gave up) because of the way a couple of people seemed to be desperately trying to do unpaid PR damage limitation for Microsoft where Microsoft had completely failed themselves, and seemingly trying to champion every censored poor decision Microsoft came up with. Obviously now Xbox One is out I've been able to experience it for myself without having to rely on the opinions of other people who also hadn't actually used one at the time.

I'd happily pay £425 for an Xbox One tommorow, without Kinect even (I honestly don't give that much of a toss about it either way now that the system is out and I've been able to see for myself that it's definitely not an essential requirement of using Xbox One), if a more decent amount of system exclusive games were actually there.

If you want to get selective with your memory of last year's events, how about you dig out the old Wii U threads where I had a massive go about the Wii U not having enough games out either? (and I've had a Wii U since launch). Because ultimately, that's what it's about, the games.
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Re: Xbone without Kinect!

Post by Matt_B » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:38 pm

ToxieDogg wrote:That's the bit I find strange Matt....the Wii was very popular with families and had tons of games available, but now people aren't buying Wii Us because 'there's no games'. But people are willing to buy something with next to no games now because of stuff they might be able to play next year? :?
Yeah, but come on, there's no "might" about it. Pretty much all the big cross-platform games will be coming to the PS4 and XB1 while the Wii U is only likely to see a smattering of them.

Nintendo got lucky with the Wii, but I'd think it clear that that audience has deserted them - or is just sticking to the 3DS - and they're pretty much down to the same rump of hardcore fans buying the Wii U as kept them going during the GameCube years.

That said, the Wii U's future now looks considerably rosier than Kinect's.

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Re: Xbone without Kinect!

Post by paranoid marvin » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:50 pm

merman wrote:The power boost does NOT come from ditching Kinect. Both Sony and Microsoft are "unlocking" extra performance from the hardware with updates, letting developers use more of the hardware's potential.

Does this mean they will be more prone to breaking down or over-heating I wonder?
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Re: Xbone without Kinect!

Post by RodimusPrime » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:55 pm

gman72 wrote:
Fightersmegamix wrote:
I do wish people would shut up with the 'Sony/Microsoft need to do x,y,z before I buy one' nonsense. If you don't like the look of next gen find another hobby. If you like videogames you'll buy one at some point in the future come what may so cut the bullsh*t. It's simply a matter of when and how much people are willing to pay. Some people will fork over £400 straight away, others will wait till they are £200, RG forum members about £50 :wink: . It's just tiring listening to idiots complaining that multi-billion pound multinationals don't listen to the views of people on the internet, despite the fact most of them have no intention of buying anything until it's much cheaper anyway.
Absolutely spot on, mate. I was going to stay out of this thread but I just had to chip in with a salute to the most brilliant post ever.

Its not really nonsense though is it?. MS have backtracked and have given people what they asked for in the first place.

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