More woe for nintendo

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outdated_gamer
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by outdated_gamer » Thu May 22, 2014 1:23 pm

pratty wrote:
outdated_gamer wrote:
Matt_B wrote: Speaking of EA, how many games do you think they released last year? I make it just 12
None of which were released on the Wii U... :wink:
But in comparing EA's software output to Nintendo's in 2013, Nintendo arguably made the better games.
That's not really important in this context neither an objective statement (matter of opinion/preferences - unless you're going strictly by review scores). Fact is, the system is lacking several popular 3rd party games, with some publishers omitting the system entirely. Consequently, there's more pressure on Nintendo to provide the games their system is missing on/lacking.

I'm not saying they should do everything themselves, I'm simply looking at things as they are - for Nintendo's own games and a handful of unique 3rd party exclusives, the Wii U is a good system. But for the "heavy hitter" multi-format games of today, it's hardly so.

They also have no answers to popular exclusives on other systems like Halo, Uncharted, TLoU, GT, Forza, Gears, GoW, ect. Again, this is not about what I want, this is about what the mainstream audience wants.

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by pratty » Thu May 22, 2014 1:45 pm

outdated_gamer wrote:That's not really important in this context neither an objective statement (matter of opinion/preferences - unless you're going strictly by review scores).
Actually it was relevent to the suggestion made that EA produce so many games, so should Nintendo. This was what Matt was talking about when he mentioned how many games EA made in 2013, in response you then made the point they weren't on the Wii-U, which was a fair point in regard to the Wii-U's plight, but not really relevant the specific point Matt was making.

As it happens not only does it appear that Nintendo does produce as many games, but they appear to be better games too on average.

It's not probably difficult to produce a lot of games if the games aren't all that great, perhaps if Nintendo produces even more games it would come with a reduction in quality.
outdated_gamer wrote:Fact is, the system is lacking several popular 3rd party games, with some publishers omitting the system entirely. Consequently, there's more pressure on Nintendo to provide the games their system is missing on/lacking.
Again, I don't dispute his and have stated the same thing myself. Not having a personal go mate, but I'm not sure you've been able to make the distinction between different points. Somebody makes a point and you counter it by shifting the goal posts. :)
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by gman72 » Thu May 22, 2014 1:52 pm

You are correct, Pratty. The same points keep being made over and again.
As for the WiiU not having enough third party titles to appease the masses this is a point I made in some detail on the first page that was largely agreed with. I feel the thread may descend into bickering before long.
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by pratty » Thu May 22, 2014 1:57 pm

I should be clear as these nintendo threads can get heated :lol: , outdated gamer and I have been going back and forth on various points, and for me it's all good discussion. :)
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by gman72 » Thu May 22, 2014 2:39 pm

I'm sure it will stay this way... But yeah, these Ninty threads often descend in madness.
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by greenberet79 » Fri May 23, 2014 4:55 am

I'm not sure, I think this thread has been pretty constructive - I'm tempted to get a 3DS now!
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Fightersmegamix » Fri May 23, 2014 8:53 am

Matt_B wrote:peaking of EA, how many games do you think they released last year? I make it just 12 that actually got stand-alone boxed releases: SimCity, Battlefield 4, Crysis 3, Dead Space 3, Fuse, Army of Two, NFS: Rivals, FIFA, Tiger Woods, NBA Live, NHL and Madden/NCAA Football.

Considering that half of those are just annual re-treads, they don't seem to be that much more productive than Nintendo. Rather, like everyone else, they're feeling the pinch from the ludicrous amounts of time, money and effort that has to go into making a modern game.
I used EA as an example but surely this proves my point? Nintendo are twice the size of EA so if EA managed 12 games shouldn't Nintendo be publishing 24? A lot of games by EA are on next gen consoles, which presumably require much larger resources than an average 3DS game. The obvious conclusion here is that Nintendo simply doesn't invest enough money into making games, probably less than a lot of the bigger third parties.

Some of you guys accept any scraps Nintendo throws your way. They are a multi billion dollar multinational and hardware manufacturer, why is it so unreasonable to expect them to produce more games? Both Microsoft and Sony have invested billions into online infrastructure, hardware etc. Nintendo have tried pulling out of the arms race, relying on new fads and gimmicks - anything to avoid spending money. Why should wii-u owners accept a barren release schedule when Nintendo are sitting on a pile of cash they refuse to spend? Why would an average consumer buy a wii-u when they can get so much more elsewhere?

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Matt_B » Fri May 23, 2014 9:34 am

Fightersmegamix wrote:I used EA as an example but surely this proves my point? Nintendo are twice the size of EA so if EA managed 12 games shouldn't Nintendo be publishing 24? A lot of games by EA are on next gen consoles, which presumably require much larger resources than an average 3DS game. The obvious conclusion here is that Nintendo simply doesn't invest enough money into making games, probably less than a lot of the bigger third parties.
No, it doesn't prove your point. As has been pointed out already, Nintendo released way more than 12 games last year. I think the total number of boxed releases was 26, although not all of those were in every region.

Rather, the figure of 12 was for the hit games. There's a certain subjective element about it - and I'd personally rate Plants vs Zombies 2 as the best thing EA published last year - but if we're to take a Metacritic score of 75 as the benchmark, EA only bettered that 7 times out of those 12 boxed releases and usually by a much slimmer margin than the Nintendo games that did.

For a comparison across all the big publishers, although this includes downloads and DLC in the figures, you might want to have a read here:

http://www.metacritic.com/feature/game- ... 3-releases

That said, I'd agree that next gen development is an expensive and time consuming business, and it's clear that Nintendo have struggled with developing games for the Wii U. Pretty much everything has been delayed, and that's made their already spartan catalogue look thinner. Had they managed to get the likes of Mario Kart and Super Smash Bros ready in time for Christmas last year things might have been a lot rosier. However, they didn't, and they're paying the price for that.

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by outdated_gamer » Fri May 23, 2014 12:07 pm

Remember when Nintendo had games like these:

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There seems to be nothing like that on the Wii U so of course the mainstream audience isn't that interested. Infact games like these seem to be far more common on the PS4 and Xbox One.

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by killbot » Fri May 23, 2014 1:26 pm

^Are you suggesting that the Wii U doesn't have any 'mature themed' games? Looking at my shelf right now I can see two Arkham games, two AC games, two CoD games, Deus Ex: Human Revolution Director's Cut, Mass Effect 3 SE, Injustice, Splinter Cell Blacklist and ZombiU. It does have a Resi game, too (Revelations HD).

I think the broader point though is that after the Gamecube it became clear that people who wanted those kind of games had all defected to Sony/MS and that violent or horror themed games didn't sell as well on Nintendo hardware as gentler, more family-oriented fare. Which is why the company has largely stuck to that of late (though they still publish the occasional horror-themed game like Cursed Mountain on the Wii).

One problem Nintendo is going to have with EA seemingly walking away from Wii U in a huff is a lack of sports games, and those are popular with gamers of all types and ages. I think they could do with buying a couple of western studios and setting them to work making 'serious' (i.e. not involving Mario) football and racing games so that the Wii U has some kind of answer to FIFA and NFS.
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by outdated_gamer » Fri May 23, 2014 2:33 pm

killbot wrote:^Are you suggesting that the Wii U doesn't have any 'mature themed' games? Looking at my shelf right now I can see two Arkham games, two AC games, two CoD games, Deus Ex: Human Revolution Director's Cut, Mass Effect 3 SE, Injustice, Splinter Cell Blacklist and ZombiU. It does have a Resi game, too (Revelations HD).

I think the broader point though is that after the Gamecube it became clear that people who wanted those kind of games had all defected to Sony/MS and that violent or horror themed games didn't sell as well on Nintendo hardware as gentler, more family-oriented fare. Which is why the company has largely stuck to that of late (though they still publish the occasional horror-themed game like Cursed Mountain on the Wii).

One problem Nintendo is going to have with EA seemingly walking away from Wii U in a huff is a lack of sports games, and those are popular with gamers of all types and ages. I think they could do with buying a couple of western studios and setting them to work making 'serious' (i.e. not involving Mario) football and racing games so that the Wii U has some kind of answer to FIFA and NFS.
Yes but those games are multi-plats (sans for Zombi U), meaning they're not a reason to buy a Wii U.

Some of those games did well on Nintendo's systems (e.g. GoldenEye, Perfect Dark), while some didn't (e.g. Eternal Darkness, REmake). But if we look at games like Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101, we can see that those games don't sell that well either. And it's always good to have variety in the exclusives' line-up.

I agree they could use more non-Mario sports titles. They made some in the past and they were good.

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by RetroBob » Fri May 23, 2014 2:54 pm

outdated_gamer wrote:Yes but those games are multi-plats (sans for Zombi U), meaning they're not a reason to buy a Wii U.
So what? I have a PS3, 360 and a Wii U and I chose to get Arkham City, Sonic blah blah Transformed and Rayman Legends on Wii U.
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by outdated_gamer » Fri May 23, 2014 3:01 pm

RetroBob wrote:
outdated_gamer wrote:Yes but those games are multi-plats (sans for Zombi U), meaning they're not a reason to buy a Wii U.
So what? I have a PS3, 360 and a Wii U and I chose to get Arkham City, Sonic blah blah Transformed and Rayman Legends on Wii U.
Well, I never bought a console because of multi-format games. :wink:

Those are just a bonus for me, not the main reason to buy a console.

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Mootown » Sat May 24, 2014 5:02 am

Fightersmegamix wrote:
Matt_B wrote:peaking of EA, how many games do you think they released last year? I make it just 12 that actually got stand-alone boxed releases: SimCity, Battlefield 4, Crysis 3, Dead Space 3, Fuse, Army of Two, NFS: Rivals, FIFA, Tiger Woods, NBA Live, NHL and Madden/NCAA Football.

Considering that half of those are just annual re-treads, they don't seem to be that much more productive than Nintendo. Rather, like everyone else, they're feeling the pinch from the ludicrous amounts of time, money and effort that has to go into making a modern game.
I used EA as an example but surely this proves my point? Nintendo are twice the size of EA so if EA managed 12 games shouldn't Nintendo be publishing 24? A lot of games by EA are on next gen consoles, which presumably require much larger resources than an average 3DS game. The obvious conclusion here is that Nintendo simply doesn't invest enough money into making games, probably less than a lot of the bigger third parties.

Some of you guys accept any scraps Nintendo throws your way. They are a multi billion dollar multinational and hardware manufacturer, why is it so unreasonable to expect them to produce more games? Both Microsoft and Sony have invested billions into online infrastructure, hardware etc. Nintendo have tried pulling out of the arms race, relying on new fads and gimmicks - anything to avoid spending money. Why should wii-u owners accept a barren release schedule when Nintendo are sitting on a pile of cash they refuse to spend? Why would an average consumer buy a wii-u when they can get so much more elsewhere?
I guess my earlier point was missed - the amount of games Nintendo published last year meant we were constantly busy. Games need space to breath, marketing windows, retailers have to make room, have enough credit etc. nintendo published a lot of games last year. Loads if you include third party. In 2013 at the latter half of the year there was a Wii u release every month, and still sales didn't pick up. Quantity doesn't equal sales. The market has changed is the reason.

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Mootown » Sat May 24, 2014 5:03 am

And actually in 2013 the first party Nintendo titles on both Wii U and 3DS were all bloody good games...

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