More woe for nintendo

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The Laird
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by The Laird » Sun May 11, 2014 3:31 pm

They are in the news again and it's also not good, but for a different reason. They are being heavily criticised for a lack of equality in their new 3DS game:

http://news.yahoo.com/nintendo-apologiz ... nance.html

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Mootown » Sun May 11, 2014 4:09 pm

kiwimike wrote:
outdated_gamer wrote:Yeah, they lost most of the large Wii userbase and are now back to GameCube-style struggling system. Nothing really new here. I think they'll have to accept that the hardware probably won't sell better than GC levels (price cut wouldn't do a mirracle either, just like it didn't for GC) and focus on the software instead. Which they basically are doing, they'd just need more appealing 3rd party exclusives or original IPs. A realistic-looking Zelda or Metroid game could get a lot of attention too.
They just haven't given me enough reason to buy a Wii U, from a consumer point of view. The marketing seemed a little confusing, when you saw the average customer in a store they would look at the Wii U as a brief curiosity before heading to the Xbox/PS stands. There were no real examples of how this system would work or be good with this tablet type controller that told you why this set up would be good...and far too much reliance on the likes of yet another Mario update :? Yet another new Mario Kart etc will only please a minority. They did need new Zelda, Metroid, and how bout Excitebike, Waverace, 1080? How bout some of the earlier franchises rather than Mario, Mario and more Mario? It has some great games, Zombie,Lego City...but not nearly enough of them.
I like Nintendo, I love the 3DS XL, and I hope they can bounce back, but IMO they need to evolve a bit.
Mario Kart outsells all the ones you mention by tons - rather the other games are for a minority, Mario Kart is mass-appeal. Whether it shifts hardware when 8 releases only time will tell.

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Antiriad2097 » Sun May 11, 2014 4:53 pm

Nobody is buying a new system for an incremental update of Mario Kart. Every Nintendo system, handheld and home, has had Mario Kart since it started. Its the racing game you buy for your Nintendo when they won't give you more F-Zero.
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Shinobi » Sun May 11, 2014 5:32 pm

We'll the X Box one isn't selling to well either http://www.extremetech.com/computing/18 ... y-earnings

The Wii U is the only current gen console I own and I personally will buy Mario Kart over Watchdogs.. I like the Wii U but only own 2 games for it just wish they would release Bayonetta 2 and a few other must have titles
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by gman72 » Sun May 11, 2014 6:01 pm

I'm looking forward to Bayonetta also, Shin. I seriously doubt it's going to turn round the WiiUs fortunes unfortunately. :(
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Mootown » Sun May 11, 2014 6:12 pm

Antiriad2097 wrote:Nobody is buying a new system for an incremental update of Mario Kart. Every Nintendo system, handheld and home, has had Mario Kart since it started. Its the racing game you buy for your Nintendo when they won't give you more F-Zero.
Actually they do, more so than any other Nintendo franchise aside from Pokemon and Wii Sports.

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by kiwimike » Mon May 12, 2014 3:23 am

Mootown wrote:
Antiriad2097 wrote:Nobody is buying a new system for an incremental update of Mario Kart. Every Nintendo system, handheld and home, has had Mario Kart since it started. Its the racing game you buy for your Nintendo when they won't give you more F-Zero.
Actually they do, more so than any other Nintendo franchise aside from Pokemon and Wii Sports.
You're right, but also pointing out Nintys problem at the same time. The ones that are happy to buy a console simply for the latest M.Kart are a gaming minority. Hence the poor sales. The kart games attract the same Ninty hardcore loyal gamers but do little to attract new ones onboard it seems and the issue they seem to be having.

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Mootown » Mon May 12, 2014 4:12 am

kiwimike wrote:
Mootown wrote:
Antiriad2097 wrote:Nobody is buying a new system for an incremental update of Mario Kart. Every Nintendo system, handheld and home, has had Mario Kart since it started. Its the racing game you buy for your Nintendo when they won't give you more F-Zero.
Actually they do, more so than any other Nintendo franchise aside from Pokemon and Wii Sports.
You're right, but also pointing out Nintys problem at the same time. The ones that are happy to buy a console simply for the latest M.Kart are a gaming minority. Hence the poor sales. The kart games attract the same Ninty hardcore loyal gamers but do little to attract new ones onboard it seems and the issue they seem to be having.
No mate - Mario Kart is one of the few that does attract new people - and of all games Mario Kart doesn't have poor sales, quite the opposite - Mario Kart Wii sold 35 million copies worldwide and is the 2nd best selling game on Wii (after pack-in title Wii Sports) and apparently if the internet is to be believed, the best-selling racing video game of all time. Also when 3DS sales were sluggish, Mario Kart 7 and 3D Land revitalised the hardware sales, after Zelda failed to do so. Mario Kart continues to be the top selling game bought with 3DS hardware, and is the 2nd best selling 3DS game of all time, after Pokemon. Both Wii and 3DS have specific bundles with Mario Kart in them, Nintendo bundled them together for the reason that it does sell hardware.

My point is we don't know yet if the same effect will continue into Wii U, as it's not yet released. Be interesting to see what effect it does have over the next few months as there is certainly plenty of home console competition out there - I think the main problem for Wii U is sitting in the middle of budget priced PS3 / Xbox 360 for folk on a budget and perceived better, more expensive consoles PS4 and Xbox One for 'serious' gamers.

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Matt_B » Mon May 12, 2014 5:26 am

MK7 might have played a big part in turning around the 3DS, but that machine was still fairly young at the time, with its first Christmas period in sight, and its struggling sales were about ten times what the Wii U is shifting now.

I'd think that absolutely the best MK8 can do for the Wii U is to shunt its sales trajectory back to parity with the GameCube; any more than that would be sheer fantasy.

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Mootown » Mon May 12, 2014 5:50 am

Matt_B wrote:MK7 might have played a big part in turning around the 3DS, but that machine was still fairly young at the time, with its first Christmas period in sight, and its struggling sales were about ten times what the Wii U is shifting now.

I'd think that absolutely the best MK8 can do for the Wii U is to shunt its sales trajectory back to parity with the GameCube; any more than that would be sheer fantasy.

I predict it will become the best selling Wii U game. Not that that's saying much at the moment!

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Mootown » Mon May 12, 2014 5:54 am

I guess the point I'm trying to make is Mario Kart is the best chance for a sales uplift (not saying it will or won't) - more so than having an F-Zero, a Metroid, Zelda, whatever else that people seem to think is needed. Those other titles are booster titles and sell to the install base mostly - Mario Kart is the proven driver of hardware uplifts. But anyways, it's certainly going to be interesting. Also Watch Dogs comes out the same week so in-store space will be a battle too.

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by kiwimike » Mon May 12, 2014 6:02 am

Mootown wrote:I guess the point I'm trying to make is Mario Kart is the best chance for a sales uplift (not saying it will or won't) - more so than having an F-Zero, a Metroid, Zelda, whatever else that people seem to think is needed. Those other titles are booster titles and sell to the install base mostly - Mario Kart is the proven driver of hardware uplifts. But anyways, it's certainly going to be interesting. Also Watch Dogs comes out the same week so in-store space will be a battle too.
Yeah, I know what you're saying there in regard to MK Moo...and we still enjoy MK on Cube...I just don't know if another update of a very familiar Ninty franchise will make all the diff. Maybe it will. True, it will be interesting!
Lego City is the only game so far that had enough must buy factor for me to consider a Wii U. I'd love the system to come out with a few more to convince me :)

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by outdated_gamer » Mon May 12, 2014 3:45 pm

Mootown wrote:I guess the point I'm trying to make is Mario Kart is the best chance for a sales uplift (not saying it will or won't) - more so than having an F-Zero, a Metroid, Zelda, whatever else that people seem to think is needed. Those other titles are booster titles and sell to the install base mostly - Mario Kart is the proven driver of hardware uplifts.
However, what we don't know is if those franchises (plus add Star Fox and Earthbound to the list) aren't actually what the Nintendo faithful and "internet community" actually want now, and not just more Mario. We can't solely judge those franchises based on their sales peformance several generations ago. Doing so would be narrow-sighted, imo. I think would they make an ambitious and polished comeback, they might as well be seen as system sellers. Sure, you can always play the "one size fits all" card and say stuff like Mario Kart is a good enough substitute for the lack of F-Zero - but not everyone will agree on that. :wink:

And what we don't know if those people are really the minority now. imo, one of the key challenges for Nintendo is to broaden Wii U's appeal. They got the kid/family market locked down (although surprisingly parents aren't buying it nearly as much as they were buying the Wii, and kids these days seem to be more obsessed with online games like Minecraft and shooters) and the nostalgia niche, what they are lacking in is appealing to the "mature gamer" and the mainstream players. They haven't really been doing a all too good job on that ever since the SNES, partly N64 (i.e. first-person shooters like GoldenEye, Turok, ect.). And I don't agree with the sentiment that that's not a market for Nintendo anymore. If they really attempted to enter it, it could pay back to them, imo.

I mean, who's to say Nintendo couldn't have their own "God of War killer", "Halo killer", "Gran Turismo killer", "Uncharted killer" and similar?

They have a lot of talent under their umbrella as well as the option to expand outside of it. It's just a matter of taking a risk and reaping the rewards.

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by outdated_gamer » Mon May 12, 2014 4:05 pm

Negative Creep wrote:I think the main difference is that GTA appeals to "casual" mature gamers who would see Zelda as childish or something they used to play. Perhaps what the Zelda series needs is a true sandbox style game with more developed characters and factions?
Making it more open-worldish would certainly help. As would giving it a more explorable and, yes, sandboxy approach. They actually did give A Link Between Worlds a non-linear stucture so that could go too. The way I see things Zelda is about exploration and adventuring just as much as it is about puzzle solving and dungeons. They should not neglect one aspect in favour of the other, imo. Also, it would be nice to see a world that actually feels "living", with many diverse characters with individual nature and patterns and a dynamically changing world - perhaps in addition to the traditional (since OoT) day/night cycle they could also add the different seasons of the year theme as seen in the Oracle games. And these could not be just for aesthetic purpose but impact gameplay too, with different locations and paths opening up. Basically to culminate the best aspects of the franchise in one epic package (but of course leaving room for expansion and new approaches).

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Mootown » Tue May 13, 2014 4:23 am

outdated_gamer wrote:
Mootown wrote:I guess the point I'm trying to make is Mario Kart is the best chance for a sales uplift (not saying it will or won't) - more so than having an F-Zero, a Metroid, Zelda, whatever else that people seem to think is needed. Those other titles are booster titles and sell to the install base mostly - Mario Kart is the proven driver of hardware uplifts.
However, what we don't know is if those franchises (plus add Star Fox and Earthbound to the list) aren't actually what the Nintendo faithful and "internet community" actually want now, and not just more Mario. We can't solely judge those franchises based on their sales peformance several generations ago. Doing so would be narrow-sighted, imo. I think would they make an ambitious and polished comeback, they might as well be seen as system sellers. Sure, you can always play the "one size fits all" card and say stuff like Mario Kart is a good enough substitute for the lack of F-Zero - but not everyone will agree on that. :wink:

And what we don't know if those people are really the minority now. imo, one of the key challenges for Nintendo is to broaden Wii U's appeal. They got the kid/family market locked down (although surprisingly parents aren't buying it nearly as much as they were buying the Wii, and kids these days seem to be more obsessed with online games like Minecraft and shooters) and the nostalgia niche, what they are lacking in is appealing to the "mature gamer" and the mainstream players. They haven't really been doing a all too good job on that ever since the SNES, partly N64 (i.e. first-person shooters like GoldenEye, Turok, ect.). And I don't agree with the sentiment that that's not a market for Nintendo anymore. If they really attempted to enter it, it could pay back to them, imo.

I mean, who's to say Nintendo couldn't have their own "God of War killer", "Halo killer", "Gran Turismo killer", "Uncharted killer" and similar?

They have a lot of talent under their umbrella as well as the option to expand outside of it. It's just a matter of taking a risk and reaping the rewards.
Actually the kid/family market isn't locked down on Wii U - the install base is currently mostly made up of 'core' Nintendo fans. The other 30 million or so of the family market are still fairly happy with a Wii or have moved onto ipad / ps3 etc. For me, I don't mind there aren't any 'grown up games', I don't want another console that's the same as all the others. I have an Xbox One and a PS4 for that. It's a real shame that Mario 3D World and Pikmin 3 didn't capture the imagination of a wider audience as I consider them to be among the best games released last year. The fact is, the small franchises don't sell as well as Mario, Mario Kart or Pokemon. Look at lifetime sales of things like F-Zero - as much as I love it, F-Zero wouldn't change a thing. It would sell ok numbers and people on here would be happy, but it wouldn't make a shift in the fortunes of the console overall. You can even see this when you look at the top selling games currently on 3DS - it's not Zelda, or Fire Emblem etc which did really well on launch, it's the 'evergreens' of Mario Kart, Pokemon X/Y, Mario 3D World, Animal Crossing. It's just the way things have changed unfortunately. I have my fingers crossed for Mario Kart, hoping all my friends get it too so I can jump online with them. It's good to debate though.

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