The Dreamcast is Overrated

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errolwd40
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Re: The Dreamcast is Overrated

Post by errolwd40 » Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:59 pm

I picked up a dreamcast shortly after release in 1999, but It soon started gathering dust as I went back to my playstation and n64. I thing the games whilst fun where quite shallow and bland.

I traded the machine in towards a ps2 when the first pro evolution soccer game came out, I did get one again a few years ago but it had a faulty disc drive.

That sort of sealed it for me, no more sega hardware for me except megadrive. :)

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sscott
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Re: The Dreamcast is Overrated

Post by sscott » Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:26 pm

Don't think it's over or underrated, a retrospective history is not very fair on the machine. Got mine with my first ever pay check in '99 and loved the system, have nearly all the PAL games for it too.
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crusto
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Re: The Dreamcast is Overrated

Post by crusto » Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:49 pm

The VIC 20 was better :P
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Eat your nans pants

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GameOver
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Re: The Dreamcast is Overrated

Post by GameOver » Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:22 am

outdated_gamer wrote:PS2 being a lot more powerful than the DC is a myth, btw.
I've developed on both Dreamcast and PS2 and the PS2 was significantly faster than the Dreamcast both in graphics and CPU performance, which was made worse by Sega preventing developers having low level access to the hardware until late on. The Power VR was restrictive and still required geometry to be transformed and clipped in software which took a large amount of CPU frame time (ie 50%). The PS2 handled that entirely in parallel on VU1. The DC is very highly overrated if you're comparing performance of that generation.

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Sephiroth81
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Re: The Dreamcast is Overrated

Post by Sephiroth81 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:11 am

slacey1070 wrote:You mention GT3... It's just a shame someone forgot to put the game in that one.

MSR was much more fun.
MSR was just another arcadey racer. Reasonable fun for a short while, nice locations for tracks and the day/night cycle - but thats about it. Its not comparable to a Gran Turismo or Forza game. Its basically an inferior prequel to Project Gotham Racing, which was also lacking in depth compared to the GT's and Forza's.

"Kudos" points.....oh dear :roll:
GameOver wrote:
outdated_gamer wrote:PS2 being a lot more powerful than the DC is a myth, btw.
I've developed on both Dreamcast and PS2 and the PS2 was significantly faster than the Dreamcast both in graphics and CPU performance, which was made worse by Sega preventing developers having low level access to the hardware until late on. The Power VR was restrictive and still required geometry to be transformed and clipped in software which took a large amount of CPU frame time (ie 50%). The PS2 handled that entirely in parallel on VU1. The DC is very highly overrated if you're comparing performance of that generation.
Great insight there.

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slacey1070
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Re: The Dreamcast is Overrated

Post by slacey1070 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:07 am

See, there's the issue. You keep comparing things on an unfair basis, spanning generations. MSR is better than Pole Position.... But that argument is irrelevant. Gt3, like most Gt games, has terrible on rails AI. The cars stick the racing line.

And comparing consoles on the basis of technical spec is pointless. I bet the gameboy has more playable games than the PS4. It's irrelevant.

The dc was a fun console.... The PS2 may have had more games and a DVD player, but that doesn't mean the dc is poor, or less fun.

And, in fact, I have more fun with my gamecube than either my dc or ps2.

Right, off to play Billy Hatcher... In your face ps2!
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Sephiroth81
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Re: The Dreamcast is Overrated

Post by Sephiroth81 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:16 am

slacey1070 wrote:See, there's the issue. You keep comparing things on an unfair basis, spanning generations. MSR is better than Pole Position.... But that argument is irrelevant. Gt3, like most Gt games, has terrible on rails AI. The cars stick the racing line.

And comparing consoles on the basis of technical spec is pointless. I bet the gameboy has more playable games than the PS4. It's irrelevant.

The dc was a fun console.... The PS2 may have had more games and a DVD player, but that doesn't mean the dc is poor, or less fun.

And, in fact, I have more fun with my gamecube than either my dc or ps2.

Right, off to play Billy Hatcher... In your face ps2!
What generation are YOU choosing the Dreamcast to sit in? I thought it was in the 6th generation along with the PS2, Gamecube and Xbox. Project Gotham Racing, Forza 1, GT3/4 and there are many more - all of which are better overall games than MSR. Yes, Gran Turismo games have faults, i'm not even the biggest fan of them (I prefer Forza which certainly addresses the AI point you make).

I never said the DC was poor. I just said it was overrated. Its an ok console, but probably has the most "lacking" game library since the Master System from the 3rd console generation.

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Re: The Dreamcast is Overrated

Post by HEAVYface » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:44 am

the DC is the plucky underdog though, and it was cheap for the power you got (which is also true of the gamecube)

sticking it in with a generation of consoles that came out a year or two after doesn't prove a huge amount, as it was the first by a year it was obviously going to be the less powerful machine than the competition - indeed games like sin and punishment on the n64 looked almost good enough to be on DC - the first time I saw powerstone running I thought it was an n64 game....doesn't make the game any less awesome.

the original xbox was a powerhouse console which has lot in common with the ps3/xbox 360 generation in terms of shaders etc. so yes project gotham does have 'nicer' graphics than msr. both games are great though. also, PS2 games I played from the lifespan of the DC didn't look any better than DC games, although rez had twice the frame rate.

but the games are where its at. I own a DC and a gamecube from that generation of consoles and got rid of the xbox and ps2, because of the games.

oh and GT and forza are sterile and boring, i'd take MSR any day of the week over those two.

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Sephiroth81
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Re: The Dreamcast is Overrated

Post by Sephiroth81 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:57 am

HEAVYface wrote:
oh and GT and forza are sterile and boring, i'd take MSR any day of the week over those two.
They are totally different types of games. MSR is more of a Ridge Racer, Daytona kind of racing game....arcade. Forza and GT games are focused simulation games where drivers have to consider the setup of the car, strategy, tyre wear, fuel etc. Its realistic. MSR is fun for a while, like many arcade racers, but lacks depth.

I've basically played Forza 2 (my favourite of the series) on a weekly basis roughly since 2008. I think i played MSR for a week at most. Its like comparing a one night stand to a relationship :D ok bad example!

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Re: The Dreamcast is Overrated

Post by RodimusPrime » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:21 am

Sephiroth81 wrote:
HEAVYface wrote:
oh and GT and forza are sterile and boring, i'd take MSR any day of the week over those two.
They are totally different types of games. MSR is more of a Ridge Racer, Daytona kind of racing game....arcade. Forza and GT games are focused simulation games where drivers have to consider the setup of the car, strategy, tyre wear, fuel etc. Its realistic. MSR is fun for a while, like many arcade racers, but lacks depth.

I've basically played Forza 2 (my favourite of the series) on a weekly basis roughly since 2008. I think i played MSR for a week at most. Its like comparing a one night stand to a relationship :D ok bad example!

While MSR is not full on sim, it is nowhere near as arcadey as the likes of Ridge racer. Not even close.

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Re: The Dreamcast is Overrated

Post by samhain81 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:08 am

Sephiroth81 wrote:
I thought it was in the 6th generation along with the PS2, Gamecube and Xbox.
Oh my god lol.

Tell me , how can you compare a console that was discontinued early 2001, to 2 other consoles that weren't even released until late 2001.

You said it yourself, the Dreamcast was an in-between console, so by putting it in that generation your only contradicting yourself.

I actually thought you made a mistake in your earlier post by comparing graphic of Dreamcast to the likes of Halo 2, a 2004 game. Guess you were serious lol

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Sephiroth81
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Re: The Dreamcast is Overrated

Post by Sephiroth81 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:26 am

samhain81 wrote:
Sephiroth81 wrote:
I thought it was in the 6th generation along with the PS2, Gamecube and Xbox.
Oh my god lol.

Tell me , how can you compare a console that was discontinued early 2001, to 2 other consoles that weren't even released until late 2001.

You said it yourself, the Dreamcast was an in-between console, so by putting it in that generation your only contradicting yourself.

I actually thought you made a mistake in your earlier post by comparing graphic of Dreamcast to the likes of Halo 2, a 2004 game. Guess you were serious lol
"The Dreamcast (ドリームキャスト Dorīmukyasuto?) is a video game console that was released by Sega in November 1998 in Japan and later in 1999 in other territories. It was the first entry in the sixth generation of video game consoles, preceding its rivals, the PlayStation 2, Xbox and GameCube. The Dreamcast was Sega's last home console to date." - ok, so a wiki cut and paste isn't a great source, but it was in that generation, its not in the 5th gen with the Saturn, or a mysterior 5.5 gen.

I said it seemed to be some sort of in-between console as a derogatory remark - meaning it was weak and could never hope to compete with the PS2, Xbox or Gamecube.

Why are you getting so combative, have i touched a nerve? I said at the start, i wasn't intending to be provocative - i just believe the Dreamcast to be highly overrated, and due to its dismal failure in the market, never had a large number of games, and therefore decent gaming library to appeal now, unlike the other 3 of that generation (the 6th generation, or even the 5th for that matter).
RodimusPrime wrote:
While MSR is not full on sim, it is nowhere near as arcadey as the likes of Ridge racer. Not even close.
Unrealistic physics, tyre wear, lots of drifting, kudos points. Its in the same category as PGR, Ridge Racer, Daytona etc etc. Its not mean't in a bad way. They're all decent games, but they aren't simulators and have the depth of games like GT or Forza, and because of the superior hardware of the Xbox and PS2 - MSR could never compete graphically to them either (not the most important thing, just making the point)
Last edited by Sephiroth81 on Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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samhain81
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Re: The Dreamcast is Overrated

Post by samhain81 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:28 am

Sephiroth81 wrote:
samhain81 wrote:
Sephiroth81 wrote:
I thought it was in the 6th generation along with the PS2, Gamecube and Xbox.
Oh my god lol.

Tell me , how can you compare a console that was discontinued early 2001, to 2 other consoles that weren't even released until late 2001.

You said it yourself, the Dreamcast was an in-between console, so by putting it in that generation your only contradicting yourself.

I actually thought you made a mistake in your earlier post by comparing graphic of Dreamcast to the likes of Halo 2, a 2004 game. Guess you were serious lol
"The Dreamcast (ドリームキャスト Dorīmukyasuto?) is a video game console that was released by Sega in November 1998 in Japan and later in 1999 in other territories. It was the first entry in the sixth generation of video game consoles, preceding its rivals, the PlayStation 2, Xbox and GameCube. The Dreamcast was Sega's last home console to date." - ok, so a wiki cut and paste isn't a great source, but it was in that generation, its not in the 5th gen with the Saturn, or a mysterior 5.5 gen.

I said it seemed to be some sort of in-between console as a derogatory remark - meaning it was weak and could never hope to compete with the PS2, Xbox or Gamecube.

Why are you getting so combative, have i touched a nerve? I said at the start, i wasn't intending to be provocative - i just believe the Dreamcast to be highly overrated, and due to its dismal failure in the market, never had a large number of games, and therefore decent gaming library to appeal now, unlike the other 3 of that generation (the 6th generation, or even the 5th for that matter).
Hardly, I've only posted twice, and for the reason that you are literally too dumb to reply to, but I had to this time.

If you had more than 1 or 2 friends, and grew up in the arcade scene where people actually socialised, then the Dreamcast was a top console.

It wasn't overrated, it just wasn't for you.

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Sephiroth81
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Re: The Dreamcast is Overrated

Post by Sephiroth81 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:35 am

samhain81 wrote:
Hardly, I've only posted twice, and for the reason that you are literally too dumb to reply to, but I had to this time.

If you had more than 1 or 2 friends, and grew up in the arcade scene where people actually socialised, then the Dreamcast was a top console.

It wasn't overrated, it just wasn't for you.
I don't hate the Dreamcast, and I am sorry you don't have the capability to argue sensibly without resorting to cheap ad-hominem attacks.

I said all along it was my opinion that it was overrated, I apologise this offends you so deeply and you feel the need to come with a vitriolic rant. The games line up is reasonable at best, but its lacking and very limited. Where are all the great football/sports games that I would like to play with my "1 or 2 friends". The Saturn had a better selection of multiplayer and arcade games. The DC just didn't have the quantity - a handful of decent arcade ports (some iffy) does not make a great console.

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Space_turnip
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Re: The Dreamcast is Overrated

Post by Space_turnip » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:56 am

I'll give you MSR wasn't the racing sim to end all racing sims....but then we did have F355 on the DC, which was pretty much all you needed Sim wise ;).

The game Library is indeed 'lacking' for the DC. But then, games were only being released for a little over 2 years in Europe...in that time, 216 odd games got released. That's not a bad number. There's some glaring holes in terms of genre greats, sure, but judge any console on it's first 2 years alone, and you'd have the same issue.

I will point out one giant flaw in your argument though (there's not been any others, it's been a fair and reasoned debate and let's hope it stays that way!) - whilst Football games were indeed terrible, Sports games were certainly not. All the American sports had better-than-EA versions released. Football on the DC=terrible; Sports on the DC=start of a new generation.

(oh and i'd debate the 'iffy' arcade ports as well ;))
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