What is wrong with a '7/10' review score?

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Re: What is wrong with a '7/10' review score?

Post by retrosofer » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:58 pm

Sonic Jam is a good game/compilation though, it just wasn't the Sonic game everyone wanted. But for PAL gamers, it offered value for money, the chance to play the 16-bit titles at 60hz (providing your Saturn was moded) and the chance to play on the best d-pad controller ever made.

I really do hate review scores though, i think a review should be about what has been written about the game, not the score out of ten at the bottom of it which is why i dont put a review score with my reviews as they are pointless, and have lost any meaning (if there was any to begin with) these days. I bet there are a good many gamers these days that dont even bother reading reviews on the big games websites, they just look at the scores.

Also i think Metacritic has become all too important these days, i hate that site too, and i think its had a bad effect on reviews from alot of the big websites. Just look at how publishers and developers are obsessed with metacritic scores for their games and basing bounuses and pay on scores.

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Re: What is wrong with a '7/10' review score?

Post by Lost Dragon » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:05 pm

Not so much score related, but i've had issues with some of Edge's reviews where swearing seems to be classed as childish and not needed in 1 game, along with sterotypes (Killzone 2) then swearing seems to be praised and sterotypes are great fun, in review further in the magazine (HOTD:Overkill).I bought and loved both games, but they cannot have a that's bad, kids stance for 1 and not the other.

This is scorebased though, seen reviewers morality issues result in points knocked off on Condemnd II and MGS:Portal Ops (reviewer did'nt like fact you could convert captured foes) yet GTA 3 etc (kill police, hookers) described as great fun.

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Re: What is wrong with a '7/10' review score?

Post by retrosofer » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:19 pm

Lost Dragon wrote:Not so much score related, but i've had issues with some of Edge's reviews where swearing seems to be classed as childish and not needed in 1 game, along with sterotypes (Killzone 2) then swearing seems to be praised and sterotypes are great fun, in review further in the magazine (HOTD:Overkill).I bought and loved both games, but they cannot have a that's bad, kids stance for 1 and not the other.

This is scorebased though, seen reviewers morality issues result in points knocked off on Condemnd II and MGS:Portal Ops (reviewer did'nt like fact you could convert captured foes) yet GTA 3 etc (kill police, hookers) described as great fun.

Edge, do gamers actually read that crap? Its an industry type magazine full of crap made for industry types. Games should be reviewed by people really wanting to play a certain game that they will then go on to review, and the review should be what it is and to hell with points and scores and marking up or down for one reason or another, the written word should be all thats needed.

As for big game sites, they are not exactly impartial these days are they, which the Jeff Gerstmann debacle at Gamespot showed us, which is why i wouldn't trust the major sites reviews.
At least The Laird is a gamer giving his own honest oppinion about games he has played and i'd trust his oppinion over an IGN one any day.

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Re: What is wrong with a '7/10' review score?

Post by HEAVYface » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:29 pm

Lost Dragon wrote:Not so much score related, but i've had issues with some of Edge's reviews where swearing seems to be classed as childish and not needed in 1 game, along with sterotypes (Killzone 2) then swearing seems to be praised and sterotypes are great fun, in review further in the magazine (HOTD:Overkill).I bought and loved both games, but they cannot have a that's bad, kids stance for 1 and not the other.

This is scorebased though, seen reviewers morality issues result in points knocked off on Condemnd II and MGS:Portal Ops (reviewer did'nt like fact you could convert captured foes) yet GTA 3 etc (kill police, hookers) described as great fun.
I totally agree - that's why I stopped reading Edge (well that and the god complex they had at the time). totally inconsistent. if it is offensively puerile button mashing bobbins and borderline tasteless racial stereotyping but with a merest sniff of irony it's ok. to me it's still the same tired cr@p.

The problem is 'Edge' as an entity - trying to come across as a single authoritative voice. They have multiple reviewers that often contradict each other. if they would just acknowledge that different staff writers have differing tastes and will score games based on their preference it would be OK, but they don't.
A1 pompous tittery.

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Re: What is wrong with a '7/10' review score?

Post by Lost Dragon » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:39 pm

Edge used to do superb Making of...features on games, sadly they've long stopped.As for reviews by them, if they were'nt willing to name reviewers, i could never build any degree of 'trust' with them.I'm 90% certain who they had review Defender 2000 on Jaguar though, as it read so similar to his ST Format review.The Edge score of 3/10 was absurd, i'm not a fan of D2K, bought it on day 1, very dissapointing, but it's not that bad.

With magazine reviews, there's always the question of upsetting the advertisers (Edge 'linked' to Rockstar over exclusive art, big adverts etc, Zzap 64 the whole Thalamus/Newsfield connection, plus they reviewed unfinished and far better looking version of C64 Operation Thunderbolt than one that we got at retail), plus i'd often read of magazines being 'invited' down to Sega HQ or a hotel room where MS had a new game for review with PR person in next room, strict conditions imposed etc.

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Re: What is wrong with a '7/10' review score?

Post by Lost Dragon » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:12 pm

HEAVYface wrote:
Lost Dragon wrote:Not so much score related, but i've had issues with some of Edge's reviews where swearing seems to be classed as childish and not needed in 1 game, along with sterotypes (Killzone 2) then swearing seems to be praised and sterotypes are great fun, in review further in the magazine (HOTD:Overkill).I bought and loved both games, but they cannot have a that's bad, kids stance for 1 and not the other.

This is scorebased though, seen reviewers morality issues result in points knocked off on Condemnd II and MGS:Portal Ops (reviewer did'nt like fact you could convert captured foes) yet GTA 3 etc (kill police, hookers) described as great fun.
I totally agree - that's why I stopped reading Edge (well that and the god complex they had at the time). totally inconsistent. if it is offensively puerile button mashing bobbins and borderline tasteless racial stereotyping but with a merest sniff of irony it's ok. to me it's still the same tired cr@p.

The problem is 'Edge' as an entity - trying to come across as a single authoritative voice. They have multiple reviewers that often contradict each other. if they would just acknowledge that different staff writers have differing tastes and will score games based on their preference it would be OK, but they don't.
A1 pompous tittery.
It was exactly as you describe, on 1 page you'd read a nameless reviewer moaning that FPS X was'nt anything new, had too many sterotypical characters, added little or nothing over it's earlier instalments and why were you always having to follow orders, go here, shoot this, open that etc, yet here's say Halo ODST few pages along, 9/10 (i think it scored), something Bungie themselves had planned as a mere exp.pack, yet MS turned into a full price title and you were following orders as you were a mere grunt this time around, you followed orders in Gears Of War, with it's butch hard guy marines, sterotypical characters and cover system taken from a generation earliers Kill.Switch and Rogue Trooper (disclaimer:I've bought all Halo's so far and Gears 1-3), so how they could moan at 1 and cuss the other is beyond me.

The GTA series, for myself peaked at GTA S.A, went onto prefer likes of Scarface and Saboteur, yet edge scorned them both rather unfairly i felt.Why the likes of Gamestm then decided to model itself on the Edge model was beyond me.

Gamer reviews should fare far better,(and i speak soley as an ex-reviewer myself here, nothing more before anything kicks off, again on here...) as in most cases a person has paid for a game and is'nt under the pressure of a deadline, so if a game is a slow burner, they'll have put the hours in and discovered it's charms, but even then i hope for balance.If a better version exists on a platform using newer or better suited hardware, then i'd hope reviewer would point that out, by saying something along lines of Game X being a superb example of the genre on Platform Y but was never going to match the version on Platform Z as it had say more sprites and a better sound chip or was more suited to wireframe 3D.Elite on C64 for example, one of the best examples of the genre, but 'better' versions existed on other platforms as poor old C64 CPU not really suited to 3D graphics of this type.

Robocop i enjoyed on C64, but it's not a patch on the Speccy 128 version, ditto with StarGlider.

Mentioned this many times before, but as soon as i moved from my 800XL to the C64, i went about buying C64 versions of A8 games i loved (Elktraglide, Panther, Dropzone, Rescue On Fract, Thrust, Red Max etc) and i know only too well which versions worked best.

I loved MD Desert Strike, but having later played the Amiga version, don't think i could return to the MD version, as i'd miss the audio alone.

Sometimes you as a reviewer just have to admit later/other versions improved apon versions you 1st played or are now reviewing.This does'nt detract from that version, as long as it makes great use of host hardware, but you just need that element of balance.Basically make it clear that if you only own platform X and like a certain genre you cannot go wrong with.....but also point out if your in position of owning/emulating more than 1 platform, you'd be better off trying it on....


I'd personally point people in A8 direction for Rescue On Fract, Star Raiders 2, Elktraglide and Dropzone, due to speed, use of colour etc

C64 for Thrust, Spellbound, Beach Head 2, Panther, Druid etc as they look and sound better.

I bought Gun and The Warriors on PSP, but rebought on Xbox as (with my hands), prefered the controls on Xbox.Bought and completed MGS Peace Walker on PSP, but still bought MGS HD Collection on PS3, on 3rd playthrough of Peace Walker on PS3 now, never return to PSP version.


But these are just personal preferences.I find myself playing Arcade games on MAME or various Retro comps on numerous formats, rather than the 'home conversions', yet at the time i loved C64 Bubble Bobble, but if i had to review it now, i guess i'd be biased and say why play on C64 when you can get much better versions on....so if i had to review it, i would'nt 'score it', just praise it for what it achieved, but also point out it was such a converted game, folks might want to try it on....

Mate of mine just picked up a 520STFM with huge selection of games, was describing how eager he was to try them, as knew i was an ST owner at the time, i had to explain to him, that whilst at the time i loved the St for basically being cheapest route to 16 Bit gaming for myself and mates at the time and introducing me to so many stunning games, the P.D scene etc, it was the 1 format i'd never returned to, as i hated the soundchip and knew of the restrictions imposed on many of it's games compared to the Amiga versions.It honestly felt 'odd' that i could in all honesty, not recomend a machine i'd poured hours and hundreds of pounds into, all those years ago.

As a gamer myself, find my tastes and recomendations have changed over the years and continue to do so.I've reviewed countless games for fanzines over the years, all non-serious publications (Atari Entertainment+United Games probably the most 'straight', but as for TCP, Exploding Carrot, Insane Games..well, if names don't give it away...)

If i went back and re-reviewed likes of Syndicate (Jaguar), Battlezone (lynx), Fade To Black (PS1), bet i'd be spitting feathers at scores i gave then as since then i bought and played Battlezone 1+2 on PC (Pandemic), Syndicate Wars (PS1) and i just know Fade To Black would set my blood boiling, espically the 'slow down, i'm just an old man!' escort mission.
Actually, if i even went back and played 3D games that i once loved like F-15 Strike Eagle 2, Midwinter 2, Hunter on ST or F-22 and LHX Attack Chopper on MD, games i've never tried since my original playthrough's all those years ago, my 'modern self' would no doubt be shocked, i'd turn into such a blinkered snob, logic about rembering what the hardware they were running on was capable of at that time would go out the window, so i honestly 'respect' those who do review early 3D games for sites/publications.Just warn us rose-tinted lot what to expect if we ever do return to them.


:lol:

So there's really no such thing as a 'correct' review score anymore, hence why scores by the very nature for myself should be consigned to history.

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Re: What is wrong with a '7/10' review score?

Post by Blake » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:41 pm

learnedrobb wrote:Seriously?

I've noticed this more and more. Lots of gamers seem to instantly dismiss games which score a '7/10' as being a 'bad' or 'poor' game. On a sliding scale of 1-10, where 1 is 'awful' and 10 is 'perfect', then 7 is still 'good'. Obviously some reviewers don't help (I've seen plenty of games called 'average' by a reviewer then awarded a 7... 5 is average on a 10 point scale folks), but I fail to see why a game which is still good gets dismissed.

Thoughts?
Well, I believe you answered your own question. You are obviously a gamer and you are obviously questioning a third party score system. Beleive it or not, you are not the only one doing so. If there are 'gamers' dismissing games due to arbitrary scoring, allow me to assume they are missing a point there. As far as I am concerned, when I become aware of a game, I look for the gameplay youtube video and if that catches me, that's it. I could not care less if someone thought that this game is good or bad. In all sincerity, it is my choice. Scores may be regarded as guidelines, but I learned to dismiss them too once too often.

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Re: What is wrong with a '7/10' review score?

Post by Megamixer » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:35 pm

I once bought an issue of Edge and almost fell asleep reading it.
Retro is a state of mind, and cares not for your puny concepts like dates and calendars.

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Re: What is wrong with a '7/10' review score?

Post by Lost Dragon » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:11 pm

markopoloman wrote:In all honesty, there is no difference to referring RVG reviews to RG reviews, GamesTM, Zzap64, Crash, The One, Amiga Power or any other mag/forum/web site. Yes, someone has mentioned RVG reviews over and over again and I can see why that annoys The Laird - but it is still a point of discussion within this thread.
If it is a big issue having reviews discussed from there, then the contributors should just let it go and post about some other reviews from somewhere else and not engage in conversation about it as this just leaves it open for more discussion (that has happened).
Also, why feel that it needs defending? It is a different site with its own members doing their own reviews - so what if the scoring system seems a little iffy to some people! Opinions are just that - opinions and that doesn't need to be made into something bigger than what it is.

All I would ask is that when discussing stuff from other forums where members here are involved is that it doesn't get personal or cause 'Forum Wars 27634'.

Maybe it is time though to stop the RVG review system debate and slip into something a little more comfortable... How about RG reviews and its scores? Nintendo 100% jobbies spring to mind!
C+VG also springs to mind:

Wing Commander III PC CD-ROM 95% 'What makes the game so special though, is the slick FMV clips'

Magic Carpet PC CD-ROM 96% 'The best graphics yet seen on any machine.'

Toh Shin Den PS1 96% ' The graphics will have you aghast'

Ridge Racer PS1 96% 'Unbelievable graphics'.

Little wonder this was the era Sega coined the phrase 'Graphics Tarts' (i.e people being taken in by flashy visuals over solid gameplay)

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Re: What is wrong with a '7/10' review score?

Post by Antiriad2097 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:50 pm

Lost Dragon wrote:C+VG also springs to mind:

Wing Commander III PC CD-ROM 95% 'What makes the game so special though, is the slick FMV clips'

Magic Carpet PC CD-ROM 96% 'The best graphics yet seen on any machine.'

Toh Shin Den PS1 96% ' The graphics will have you aghast'

Ridge Racer PS1 96% 'Unbelievable graphics'.

Little wonder this was the era Sega coined the phrase 'Graphics Tarts' (i.e people being taken in by flashy visuals over solid gameplay)
How so? 3 of those 4 are solid games still enjoyable today. Highlighting the stunning presentation for their day seems only natural.
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Re: What is wrong with a '7/10' review score?

Post by Lost Dragon » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:35 pm

How so? because:Whilst Toh Shin Den and Ridge Racer were the 2 games i pre-ordered from Silica Shop, along with my Playstation for day 1 delivery, i soon tired of both, as for myself, both lacked any real depth.Virtua Fighter seemed to offer a lot more than Toh Shin Den, despite not looking anywhere near as flashy.

WCIII C+VG admitted still had same gameplay as previous installments and it was only due to the FMV that game stood out, yet had'nt i just come from the Mega CD era where media was pouring scorn on games that relied on flash FMV to hide same old gameplay?

Bottom line for myself was that this was C+VG in an era where graphics were seen as a scoring benchmark, Jaguar Iron Solider a far better Mech game than 32X Metal Head (owned both), yet scorned for text-only briefing screens, not being texture-mapped to the degree Metal Head was.Gameplay sadly seemed to play 2nd fiddle to C+VG reviewers at that time.

I mean they certainly liked to reward presentation:

Rise Of The Robots:( both versions reviewed by Mark Patterson)

SNES Overall 91% 'Technically this is probably the most advanced game, ever combining the rendered graphics with the cutscenes of the CD version, to produce a truely spectacular game'

PC CD-ROM' Overall 90% When a game takes as long as this to appear you take a guarded stance.Hopefully even the most doubting jurno will realise this has been worth the wait'-Nope, looks like you were one of the very few Mark.... :lol:
Last edited by Lost Dragon on Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: What is wrong with a '7/10' review score?

Post by Lost Dragon » Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:43 pm

:lol: Took a look at a few of the 'reviews' (use term loosely there) i did for my mates fanzines back in the day just to see how i scored stuff in my 'younger days'

Insanes Magazine:Fade To Black, complete with Stoo's 'so bad it makes my spelling look great' captions (The Morpth Tropper? and The Professor, go on, kick away his stick, you know you want to') seems i was keen to point out the improvements over the PC version-tweaked controls, more texture-mapping, handy scanner/map etc, and i know i completed it, but did i really give it overall 90%? yikes!

Battlezone, Lynx, stoo's missed off the overal score, but VFM recieved 85% from myself, guess i was thinking of the original wireframe version and the easter egg of the 'filled in' 3D version.That and the various game modes.

These from Sept'96.Bloody hell, i feel old.

Also found my MDK 2 review for Andrew Mehta's United Games, done in 2000, no score as Andrew used a colour rating system, so i gave it a 'Groovy Green'.I gave Xbox The Thing the same rating, PS2 Silent Hill i awarded a Brilliant Blue (and mentioned it just missed out on a Red Hot). (Andrews system went Black:Burn it-Average Grey-Mellow Yellow-Groovy Green-Brill Blue and Red Hot).

Stoo's Fiction book, game and movie ratings went:Quite Pants Really-Average Joe-Pretty Good and Awesome.


Atari Entertainment i did Jaguar Syndicate 86%, moaned at Ocean's pointless zoom feature added to the game which did little to improve it in anyway and ended up saying Jaguar badly needed a lot more 3rd party games of this standard.


Ahhh, reviewing games just to help your mates out, in a very rough n ready style, those were the days.

Only mention these as there's been some bizzare claim going around i've written for 'magazines', which i'm happy to clear up.Never done any serious work, just messed around with mates projects and you can no doubt tell by names of them and scoring systems, they were anything but serious stuff.The Atari 8 Bit Gamer articles with my name on, i did'nt write either, just supplied info, so not sure where this idea i've written for magazines came from, more than happy to look back (and laugh at..) stuff i put to print years ago though, it's just the magazine claim i struggle to get my head around.
:?
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Re: What is wrong with a '7/10' review score?

Post by Lost Dragon » Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:51 pm

:oops: This however was very suspect:Mean Machines Sega with it's Earthworm 2 Exclusive Review 16 page booklet, which ended with Gus being only reviewer (and opening line was 'Since when does a Mean Machines review only have a single comment? since the game that's reviewed is hogged by 1 person is the answer'-Yeah, right Gus, that'll be exactly why.... :roll:
Overall score 95%.Fair to say i lost a lot of respect for Mean Machines after that....

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Re: What is wrong with a '7/10' review score?

Post by psj3809 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:29 am

Surprised people take reviews so seriously. I mean firstly its a review so its not going to please everyone (Just look at any top 20 lists in RG for example), yeah some sites seem to constantly give silly scores but i still enjoy reviews as often i'll see a screenshot or two and then i'll want to download the game to give it a go.

In the old days you were limited to a few magazines, now as its the internet/youtube etc every man and his dog thinks hes a decent reviewer, but just take it with a pinch of salt and dont take them so seriously

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Re: What is wrong with a '7/10' review score?

Post by Treguard » Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:12 am

Megamixer wrote:I once bought an issue of Edge and almost fell asleep reading it.
I hoped Edge would get over it's 'We want games to be taken seriously as an artform! Lets discuss the different levels Golden Axe: Beast Rider speaks to us on' vibe it developed. It didn't. I cancelled my subscription.

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