Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

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pratty
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by pratty » Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:53 pm

RodimusPrime wrote:
Matt_B wrote:
RodimusPrime wrote:Thats true, but just how much extra has that "unique" controller added to the cost of the machine. for this gen a sub £200 at launch would have been enough of a unique feature to sell the machine.
I'd suspect that it's probably only added a similar proportion to the cost as the inclusion of Kinect has done with the Xbox 1.
I just do not think it was needed and Nintendo could have got the price right down at the beginning. look how cheap the Wii u bundles are going for now.

wii u premium pack plus mario u + luigi U for around £230

imagine they released that pack with a standard controller and no Gamepad for around £200 at launch and they would have flew of the shelves IMO.
You might well be right, a lower price is always attractive and would probably have caused more fence-sitters to take the plunge and buy one.

But one apparent issue with the Wii-U was people thinking it wasn't much more than a new Wii model, not having a a distinctive new controller and supporting Wii controllers and games would only enforce that percepion, but once you see the Wii-U pad you realise "Ok this is something different, this is something new that the Wii didn't have."

I'd be interested to know if the current prices are still seeling at a profit. If so then we're seeing the true cost of the Wii, practically half the other consoles, so still considerably the cheapest 'next gen' console on the market. Price Layering is nothing new, you start high at launch when demand is high and get those who'll pay anything to pay as much as you can get fro them, then you work your way down.

Unquestionably Nintendo must be diasspointed with the Wii-U's first year, demand just wasn't there. Though now with more games on the market, this new lower price point (opposite the reltively PS4 and X Box One) might be where they expect the console to do it's most damage.

Even despite the costly controller Nintendo seem to be banking on having the cheapest console with the economy the way it is. Even if they underestimate the "gotta have it, just stick it on the credit card" culture, and a lot of people still opt for the competition, the Wii-U may still have success as a second console, after all the Wii-U is both significanly cheaper and different.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by General Opulence » Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:34 pm

The Wii U is bigger than i thought, so i dont know if there is room tbh

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by speedlolita » Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:41 pm

It's just deep really.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by James A » Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:44 pm

Just like to add to my previous post bar Titanfall between now and summer at least there isn't exactly a great deal coming out on the PS4 and Xbox 1 so theres more room for Nintendo to play around with.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Megamixer » Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:11 pm

pratty wrote:This is my point though, we all know what we mean by AAA games, but what are they really, what does that even mean and why does it matter? (rhetorical question, not aimed at you James :wink: )
Games that people (even non-gamers) take notice of regardless of whether they all want to play them or not.

I don't play things like FIFA or CoD at all but it's just a fact that a console without household names such as these will suffer. The millions-upon-millions of these games that help sell PS3's (for example) has meant that stuff I want to play has more chance of being developed and released on the same console. Again, I don't care about these so-called AAA games but if they keep a console I own in business then I'm not complaining.

Losing EA so early was also a massive blow in my opinion.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by RodimusPrime » Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:50 pm

Megamixer wrote:
pratty wrote:This is my point though, we all know what we mean by AAA games, but what are they really, what does that even mean and why does it matter? (rhetorical question, not aimed at you James :wink: )
Games that people (even non-gamers) take notice of regardless of whether they all want to play them or not.

I don't play things like FIFA or CoD at all but it's just a fact that a console without household names such as these will suffer. The millions-upon-millions of these games that help sell PS3's (for example) has meant that stuff I want to play has more chance of being developed and released on the same console. Again, I don't care about these so-called AAA games but if they keep a console I own in business then I'm not complaining.

Losing EA so early was also a massive blow in my opinion.

Not really, brcause that would mean stuff like Candy crush saga, and crap like that would be AAA. Things like Final Fantasy, mass Effect and games of that are AAA titles and many casual or non gamers have not heard of them.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by pratty » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:34 pm

RodimusPrime wrote:
Megamixer wrote:
pratty wrote:This is my point though, we all know what we mean by AAA games, but what are they really, what does that even mean and why does it matter? (rhetorical question, not aimed at you James :wink: )
Games that people (even non-gamers) take notice of regardless of whether they all want to play them or not.

I don't play things like FIFA or CoD at all but it's just a fact that a console without household names such as these will suffer. The millions-upon-millions of these games that help sell PS3's (for example) has meant that stuff I want to play has more chance of being developed and released on the same console. Again, I don't care about these so-called AAA games but if they keep a console I own in business then I'm not complaining.

Losing EA so early was also a massive blow in my opinion.
Not really, brcause that would mean stuff like Candy crush saga, and crap like that would be AAA. Things like Final Fantasy, mass Effect and games of that are AAA titles and many casual or non gamers have not heard of them.
I know what Megamixer means but I agree with Rodimus tha's too simple of a definition. I think it's a combination of production values and marketing. Even the most average to play game can be perceived as AAA if the production values and marketing are there. Meanwhile the hidden gems fall by the wasteside and get overlooked.

And I'm as guilty as anybody for overlooking certain games, unfortunately for the publishers and developers by the time I get around to them the damage has been done and their at bargain bin prices.

The point is though these hidden gem games always existed, once you're a year or two into a console's lifespan, can you really say there's "nothing to play?" You can maybe say there's no AAA games for month or two, but you could be playing some hidden gems in the meantime.

I also think appeal is a factor too regarding wwhat people regard as AAA, tied into the marketing aspect. Some games just don't appeal to peole , regardless of how good they are. For example Nintendo put out a big gun in Pikmin 3, but it just won't appeal to a lot of people with a preference for shooters.

Even deeper than that, I think their may be an element of people wanting to play the "in thing", what's currently being talked about. If the whole world is apparently swooning over some 'AAA' title, you might feel a bit left out playing some indy game. Some people want to play those cultural touchstones of the moment that everyone else is playing, making it sort of a shared experience, 'AAA' games are typically the games you expect everyone else will be playing, specifically as soon as they're released.

I actually think this is reflected in the value of many games, not just the monetary value, but the overall perception of that game. There are some games you just can't give away, regardless of the fact that it reviewed really well, and that once upon a time it was being eagerly bought by people for £30+, as good a game it may be, it's suddenly considered old hat and unfashionable, either it's already been played or it's just too out of it's time to be worth playing. Fifa would be the ultimate example of this but it's not just limited to yearly released games. I remember people saying it was bad time to buy a Wii when the games dried up at the end of it's life, as though you couldn't possibly play all the games released in the past, and only new ones were worth playing and owning a Wii for.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by ToxieDogg » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:04 pm

RodimusPrime wrote:I mean, really, the controller for the Wii U. Just how much has that added to the costy of the console and how much could they have released the machine with a standard controller.

I am worried about how much it will cost to replace one it it breaks, some places are £90.

they should have just released the sytem with standard controller at a really low price and made sure it came with a few big hitters from the Nintnedo catalogue and IMO they would have much healthier sales figures.

+
I don't quite understand this way of thinking.

OK, what I mean is.... How much is a PS4 controller? Around £50 the last time I checked.

Fair enough, that's cheaper than £90 but you're still looking at a hefty chunk of cash gone if it breaks, the cost of a new game.

I don't see a single person complaining about the PS4 controller being a pricey gimmick (really, what much use is the touchpad on it?) when they could've knocked the price of a PS4 package down even further by just using a 'normal' controller. And the £45-ish that you pay for a new Xbox One controller? Is it really that much of a massive improvement over the Xbox 360 controller to warrant that price?

Do you expect the controller to break easily? My Wii U gamepad's still fine over a year later, and I've launch day Wii Remotes and nunchucks that still work fine. Most (I'd say at least 2 thirds) of Wii U games allow you to use other control methods anyway, like the Wii Remote or Wii U Controller Pro if you're that worried about using the Gamepad much.

I've not had to buy that many spare/replacement controllers in all the years I've been using consoles actually, unless it's been through deliberate misuse (like throwing them around in temper :lol: )
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by RodimusPrime » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:17 pm

ToxieDogg wrote:
RodimusPrime wrote:I mean, really, the controller for the Wii U. Just how much has that added to the costy of the console and how much could they have released the machine with a standard controller.

I am worried about how much it will cost to replace one it it breaks, some places are £90.

they should have just released the sytem with standard controller at a really low price and made sure it came with a few big hitters from the Nintnedo catalogue and IMO they would have much healthier sales figures.

+
I don't quite understand this way of thinking.

OK, what I mean is.... How much is a PS4 controller? Around £50 the last time I checked.

Fair enough, that's cheaper than £90 but you're still looking at a hefty chunk of cash gone if it breaks, the cost of a new game.

I don't see a single person complaining about the PS4 controller being a pricey gimmick (really, what much use is the touchpad on it?) when they could've knocked the price of a PS4 package down even further by just using a 'normal' controller. And the £45-ish that you pay for a new Xbox One controller? Is it really that much of a massive improvement over the Xbox 360 controller to warrant that price?

Do you expect the controller to break easily? My Wii U gamepad's still fine over a year later, and I've launch day Wii Remotes and nunchucks that still work fine. Most (I'd say at least 2 thirds) of Wii U games allow you to use other control methods anyway, like the Wii Remote or Wii U Controller Pro if you're that worried about using the Gamepad much.

I've not had to buy that many spare/replacement controllers in all the years I've been using consoles actually, unless it's been through deliberate misuse (like throwing them around in temper :lol: )
its £90 extra for a gimmick and for something that is no where near as comfortable as a normal controller.

yes the PS4 is £50, but the console is very expensive itself and is only a small cost of the overall price. The Wiiu however is much cheaper and a £90 controoller makes a much bigger impact on the overall price. In fact with the way the price is heading the controller retails for £90+ and the wii u is heading towards £200. effectively making the controller nearly the same price as the machine. £230 for a machine, 2 games, and a £90 controller.

I still maintain that they did not need a gimmick and should have had an aggressive low price to start with.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Matt_B » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:58 pm

It's obvious that being able to sell the machine at a lower price might have helped, but I'd hardly think it a magic bullet. The console market isn't so price sensitive that being £150 cheaper than the PS4 rather than £100 would have made the Wii U sell that much better, and it wouldn't have done anything to counteract the games drought during most of last year, which was what really brought sales to a crawl. Sales did, after all, pick up a lot when the first party blockbusters started to arrive, even if it wasn't enough to undo the damage entirely.

Also, it's pretty much established fact that if you don't bundle a novel controller with a console, hardly anyone will develop for it. We saw that with MotionPlus, Move and Kinect last generation, and only by bundling the latter with the XB1 does Microsoft have any serious hope of getting developers aside from Rare to use it.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by ToxieDogg » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:54 pm

RodimusPrime wrote:its £90 extra for a gimmick and for something that is no where near as comfortable as a normal controller.
Spoken from experience? I find it a surprisingly comfortable controller to hold myself, a lot lighter than it looks too. Only it's size is really an issue and I can see how that might be offputting to some.
RodimusPrime wrote:yes the PS4 controller is £50, but the console is very expensive itself and is only a small cost of the overall price.
The RRP of a PS4 and controller isn't 'very expensive' for what it is....£350? Now imagine if they got rid of the SixAxis motion gimmick (barely used at all on PS3) and the touchpad and just went back to PS2 era DualShock controllers....I doubt it'd make a single serious difference to any game whatsover, and then you could have had the most powerful next gen console launching for a very comparable price to the Wii U Zombi U bundle a year before.
RodimusPrime wrote:The Wiiu however is much cheaper and a £90 controller makes a much bigger impact on the overall price. In fact with the way the price is heading the controller retails for £90+ and the wii u is heading towards £200. effectively making the controller nearly the same price as the machine.
Erm, no. I make that less than half the cost of the actual console myself, although you can still split hairs about whether that's still too high a cost for it.
RodimusPrime wrote:I still maintain that they did not need a gimmick and should have had an aggressive low price to start with.
I agree to an extent. You could also quite easily say the exact same thing about Kinect and Microsoft making it a mandatory part of the Xbox One deal as so far it's been heavily outsold by the PS4. On the other hand, many people were saying the same about the 'gimmicky' Wii Remote and nunchuck back when the Wii first launched (yeah, it was the cheapest console at the time anyway, but it didn't even have HD output, a properly developed online service and could have been cheaper still without a £35 (at the time) 'gimmicky' controller + £15 (at the time) attachment.
Matt_B wrote:It's obvious that being able to sell the machine at a lower price might have helped, but I'd hardly think it a magic bullet. The console market isn't so price sensitive that being £150 cheaper than the PS4 rather than £100 would have made the Wii U sell that much better, and it wouldn't have done anything to counteract the games drought during most of last year, which was what really brought sales to a crawl. Sales did, after all, pick up a lot when the first party blockbusters started to arrive, even if it wasn't enough to undo the damage entirely.

Also, it's pretty much established fact that if you don't bundle a novel controller with a console, hardly anyone will develop for it. We saw that with MotionPlus, Move and Kinect last generation, and only by bundling the latter with the XB1 does Microsoft have any serious hope of getting developers aside from Rare to use it.
Completely agree. The single biggest problem IMO was the games drought, and too many ports of games that had already been released on Xbox 360/PS3 months earlier...it was a bit of a stretch for EA to expect strong sales figures for Mass Effect 3 on Wii U, when other console owners were getting the entire trilogy for the same price and Need For Speed Most Wanted U at a time when you could pick it up on Xbox 360/PS3 for around £15. Now that there's a much better and wider selection of games available, the Wii U's global sales figure has had a respectable bump in the run up to Xmas, with VG Charts reporting a 36.5% sales increase since 2012 and it ending 2013 still slightly ahead of the Xbox One (although to be fair the Xbox One only launched in November and is very likely to pull ahead soon). So long as a decent flow of quality games keeps coming (as with the rival consoles), the Wii U can still be a success in it's own right even if it's not fighting toe to toe with the others.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Lost Dragon » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:30 pm

Re; 'The in-thing'aspect-see a lot of that round my way, GTA5 being the most recent example.Folks know i have a PS3 and 360 and just cannot believe i've not bought it, let alone i'm not playing it (and have no idea i loved GTA3+VC) but because it's the big name game, i must be bat-censored crazy not to be playing it..everyone's playing it etc etc, so to them, if a system has got a version of it, it wo'nt even register on their radar.

As for Sony controllers, it's the old Razor principle is'nt it? sell Razor at a loss, make money on selling new blades? Sony look to make money from controllers, headsets etc?.

And dear lord no, let us not return to days of PS2 controller, the deadzones on the sticks was horrendous.Improved on PS3 and improved again on PS4?

I cannot fault anyone for including things like screens on controllers (DC VMU for example i love), i only fault developers who fail to utilise the potential they offer...

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by James A » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:29 pm

Wii U games are also still roughly around £39.99 in the shops. The other two are mainly getting flogged at £54.99, theres another reason theres room for the Wii U.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by crusto » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:44 pm

Lost Dragon wrote:Re; 'The in-thing'aspect-see a lot of that round my way, GTA5 being the most recent example.Folks know i have a PS3 and 360 and just cannot believe i've not bought it, let alone i'm not playing it (and have no idea i loved GTA3+VC) but because it's the big name game, i must be bat-censored crazy not to be playing it..everyone's playing it etc etc, so to them, if a system has got a version of it, it wo'nt even register on their radar.

As for Sony controllers, it's the old Razor principle is'nt it? sell Razor at a loss, make money on selling new blades? Sony look to make money from controllers, headsets etc?.

And dear lord no, let us not return to days of PS2 controller, the deadzones on the sticks was horrendous.Improved on PS3 and improved again on PS4?

I cannot fault anyone for including things like screens on controllers (DC VMU for example i love), i only fault developers who fail to utilise the potential they offer...

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by sirpigmeat » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:05 pm

I don't know i'd call the wiiU pad a gimmick... its pretty useful, playing two player and viewing maps, menus etc. People tend to call things gimmicky when they're new. The rumble feature and analogue stick on the N64 were gimmicks and now their standard features... I could see this pad becoming a standard thing too...
Also, looking at console release prices, adjusted for inflation, the wiiU is only $16 more expensive than the wii on release... I'm pretty sure this means the pad doesn't raise the price by 90 quid... but I could be wrong.

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