Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

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Matt_B
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Matt_B » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:06 am

gman72 wrote:That Metroid picture could easily have been a shot from the criminally underrated Metroid Other M so as far as I can tell Ninty already are publishing games of that graphical standard and have been for some time.
Yeah, I thought Other M looked fantastic at times. It's obviously not in HD, and leans rather heavily on pre-rendering, but it certainly looked the part for a 2010 game.

The gameplay was pretty solid too, for the most part, and I'd think that the main aspect that let the game down was the storyline. Given the declining sales, the series probably needs a little bit of a rethink, but it ought to be a good bet for an HD comeback.

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Fightersmegamix
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Fightersmegamix » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:48 am

Other M was great, I enjoyed it much more than Prime. Of course a new Prime game is a given, which would be a shame as I prefer the 3rd person action.

Who knows what nintendo should do? I'm sure we all know what they will do - carry on as usual and hope for the best.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by outdated_gamer » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:27 am

gman72 wrote:That Metroid picture could easily have been a shot from the criminally underrated Metroid Other M so as far as I can tell Ninty already are publishing games of that graphical standard and have been for some time.
That pic is from Prime's CGI footage so that's not really so. :wink:

Other M looked good for a Wii game but from a technical graphics perspective it was quite clearly a 6th generation game. I'm not sure even if it was more graphically advanced than Ninja Gaiden on the first Xbox. But sure, the Wii U could provide a more modern, "HD" look.

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Analog
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Analog » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:35 am

outdated_gamer wrote: Yea, I'm sure games like Pikmin 3, Wonderful 101, Lego Undercover, ect. are all good, but they don't have the appeal that some of the above posted games could have. Even the Wind Waker remake and Mario 3D World didn't have the desired "system seller" effect Nintendo seem to be looking for. The situation reminds me a little on the GameCube Zelda tech-demo that left people anticipating a new, realistic (fantasy realism) Zelda game but then they decided to go for "cartoony" visuals in Wind Waker. I think Wind Waker looked good but it wasn't what the fanbase actually wanted. When they later announced a realistic-looking Zelda game, it was exactly what the fan base desired.

I won't say that graphics make a game, but they for sure are good for building up excitement. Let's not forget how big Star Fox on the SNES used to be due to being the first successful 3D polygon game on home consoles. Or how exciting Donkey Kong Country was with it's "32-bit graphics" on a 16-bit machine. Or when people played a 3D Mario for the first time or a 3D Zelda for the first time. I think it's games like these Nintendo would need now, something that would "blow away" the gaming audience.

And let's not foget the success of games like thisone. :wink:
that reaction to zelda was amazing, almost brought a tear to my eye. :)

I think you're right, personally as much as I think the cartoony look of nintendo games recently is good and their focus on those markets has been good for those gamers, I would love more realism, more action, more adult orientated design. I don't think they need to jeapordise their originality or innovation to do this, surely they can still deliver games which appeal to a more broad range of gamers. I mean, there isn't a lot of games coming out on the wii u,couldn't they try and improve this situation, the ds had a lot of games and so did the original wii, sure some of those were shovelware but if there were more games being released then some of those could be realistic games. I remember the days of ps2 and there seemed to be so many games released every week. these days I look at the new releases section for nintendo and it just seems barren in comparison...

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by gman72 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:48 am

outdated_gamer wrote:
gman72 wrote:That Metroid picture could easily have been a shot from the criminally underrated Metroid Other M so as far as I can tell Ninty already are publishing games of that graphical standard and have been for some time.
That pic is from Prime's CGI footage so that's not really so. :wink:

Other M looked good for a Wii game but from a technical graphics perspective it was quite clearly a 6th generation game. I'm not sure even if it was more graphically advanced than Ninja Gaiden on the first Xbox. But sure, the Wii U could provide a more modern, "HD" look.
Yeah I know the actual footage was taken from CGI but my point is that fidelity issues aside the graphics aren't much better than Other M, but I take your point.
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pratty
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by pratty » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:11 pm

outdated_gamer wrote:The situation reminds me a little on the GameCube Zelda tech-demo that left people anticipating a new, realistic (fantasy realism) Zelda game but then they decided to go for "cartoony" visuals in Wind Waker. I think Wind Waker looked good but it wasn't what the fanbase actually wanted. When they later announced a realistic-looking Zelda game, it was exactly what the fan base desired.
Problem is new Zelda games take a long time in development, I'm glad they don't rush them. I don't think they decided to go with cartoony visuals instead as though it was a simple either-or, they obviously just ported a stop gap game with cartoony graphics, if they are making a realistic looking Zelda from scratch it simply wouldn't have been ready. Additionally Nintendo aren't just catering to the existing Zeda fan base of thirty somethings, not everybody has played Windwaker, and it's a more port worthy game than the realistic Twilight Princess which can be played on the Wii-U anayway.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by HEAVYface » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:30 pm

Analog wrote:
outdated_gamer wrote: The situation reminds me a little on the GameCube Zelda tech-demo that left people anticipating a new, realistic (fantasy realism) Zelda game but then they decided to go for "cartoony" visuals in Wind Waker. I think Wind Waker looked good but it wasn't what the fanbase actually wanted. When they later announced a realistic-looking Zelda game, it was exactly what the fan base desired.

I think you're right, personally as much as I think the cartoony look of nintendo games recently is good and their focus on those markets has been good for those gamers, I would love more realism, more action, more adult orientated design.
I feel the exact opposite, i thought twilight princess whilst not without some charm, was completely the wrong direction. A more realistic Zelda for me is unappealing. as for making visuals more realistic means they are somehow more mature, well that's a whole other subject, I'm not sure what you mean by adult oriented design in terms of visuals. if you mean blood spurts and limbs flying around that's not more adult, that's more juvenile (but I'm sure you didn't mean that).

Zelda has quite dark themes and some 'interesting' characters (such as tingle). dressing tingle up in some s&m gear/slutty fairy wouldn't make him anymore disturbing....it would just make him obvious. the fact that the game does have a childish innocence makes these type of characters more sinister in my opinion.

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Analog
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Analog » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:58 pm

nah I didn't mean specifically blood and limbs for zelda, I meant in a more general sense with games that get released on nintendo's systems, less cutesy titles, less jpop influence on character design. or what would be better is more games that aren't like this. don't get me wrong, I like the look of a lot of japanese games which has manga or anime influences but often I find some of the design choices aren't really my bag. they seem to be more aimed at the youngest part of the video games market. there's nothing wrong with that in itself, its more like they are targeting that audience alone and I sometimes just feel completely out of place with it. I guess that could be understandable, as someone said they can operate like a gateway for children to buy into the video games industry. Idk maybe my tastes are in a minority, but I find it difficult to fully engage with some games which are a bit too.... cute. that said, I don't think they should change the style in all their titles to immediately reflect the tastes of a typical older or western gamer, in fact I agree if they tried to change it to what they thought a western gamer could want it could turn into an absolute disaster and ruin a franchise completely.they seem to be fond of putting all their eggs in one basket, just offer a bit more choice maybe? I like that different take on zelda, how about a spin off series which was more like that? so then they don't have to compromise the main line of games and possibly alienating that audience.
they need to be doing more things! making more games, I don't mean rushing them out without enough forethought. they need more people working with the wii u and creating something to offer a bit of variety for the audience.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by learnedrobb » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:58 am

Well, as I see it, if Nintendo were to stop doing 'cutesy/cartoony' looking games, then a big part of the Nintendo 'style' is lost.

Nintendos 1st party games have a distinct look and feel to them, which is instantly recognisable. Take part of that away, and the games just won't be 'Nintendo' anymore. They will become a far more generic product. And if a game looking like Wind Waker HD does puts you off playing it, well... Its how the game plays, not how it looks that should be more important.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by kiwimike » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:21 am

Matt_B wrote:
kiwimike wrote:Those images are damn gorgeous :)
Yes, but "not actual gameplay footage." :wink:

I'd think that Nintendo probably should update the look of some of their games, with Zelda and Metroid being the prime candidates, but we shouldn't forget what a massive undertaking it'd be, and that most of the studios currently delivering games with that sort of look have had a decade to be honing their engines. As such, it's not really much of an option as a quick fix for the Wii U, but something we might see in a year or two's time.

Still, a few tech demos at E3 would probably go down a treat even if the games are that far away.
3DS is screaming out for Metroid as well IMO. A deluxe release of the Trilogy would have me with a big smile for a start. And here it is :D

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Matt_B
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Matt_B » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:57 am

learnedrobb wrote:Well, as I see it, if Nintendo were to stop doing 'cutesy/cartoony' looking games, then a big part of the Nintendo 'style' is lost.

Nintendos 1st party games have a distinct look and feel to them, which is instantly recognisable. Take part of that away, and the games just won't be 'Nintendo' anymore. They will become a far more generic product. And if a game looking like Wind Waker HD does puts you off playing it, well... Its how the game plays, not how it looks that should be more important.
Nobody's suggesting they stop making cartoon-like games. That style is always going to be appropriate for the majority of their games: Mario, Pokemon, Kirby, Pikmin, Animal Crossing, etc. are always going to be that way.

However, there are some exceptions. Metroid games have certainly tended towards as much realism as the hardware allows, and Zelda has long had a foot in both camps; there's room for both cartoon and realistic games in the series, and an example of the latter would be an excellent opportunity for a showpiece to demonstrate what the Wii U hardware is truly capable of, where currently there are only a couple of third party games that push it beyond what you might see on the PS3 or 360.

Other than that, there are also Eternal Darkness and Disaster: Day of Crisis for a couple more, although I'd be surprised if we saw a follow up to either any time soon.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by outdated_gamer » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:32 am

Matt_B wrote:
learnedrobb wrote:Well, as I see it, if Nintendo were to stop doing 'cutesy/cartoony' looking games, then a big part of the Nintendo 'style' is lost.

Nintendos 1st party games have a distinct look and feel to them, which is instantly recognisable. Take part of that away, and the games just won't be 'Nintendo' anymore. They will become a far more generic product. And if a game looking like Wind Waker HD does puts you off playing it, well... Its how the game plays, not how it looks that should be more important.
Nobody's suggesting they stop making cartoon-like games. That style is always going to be appropriate for the majority of their games: Mario, Pokemon, Kirby, Pikmin, Animal Crossing, etc. are always going to be that way.

However, there are some exceptions. Metroid games have certainly tended towards as much realism as the hardware allows, and Zelda has long had a foot in both camps; there's room for both cartoon and realistic games in the series, and an example of the latter would be an excellent opportunity for a showpiece to demonstrate what the Wii U hardware is truly capable of, where currently there are only a couple of third party games that push it beyond what you might see on the PS3 or 360.

Other than that, there are also Eternal Darkness and Disaster: Day of Crisis for a couple more, although I'd be surprised if we saw a follow up to either any time soon.
Yeah, I think we all agree (I hope :wink: ) that games like Mario, Pokemon, Kirby, ect. do not need, or fit, a more realistic visual style. But as far as games like Metroid and also Zelda are concerned (and possibly some other franchises too), they'd quite fit a more realistic visual style. I don't mind if they take them in other visual directions too, but I think there is space for both, a more stylish/"cartoony" visual tone as well as a more realistic/darker one. Considering the Wii U already got a "cartoon" Zelda, maybe the next fitting style would be realistic. Or they could try something new, for example merging style with realism or whatever. Either way, Nintendo should surprise us in a positive manner. :wink:

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by sirpigmeat » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:14 am

Personally I'd like another windwaker style zelda and a more stylized Metroid... If I want realistic
I have a thousand and one places to go for it... I don't have anywhere else to go for Pikmin or
Animal Crossing etc... Saying I want a broad range of games, so nintendo should
make realistic games just like everyone else doesn't make sense to me...

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Matt_B
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Matt_B » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:35 am

Just to make it clear, by "realistic" Zelda, I'm not talking about the generic fantasy pap that other companies make, but something of the same lineage as Ocarina, Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword, but using the superior hardware of the Wii U to add a bit of visual flare.

Nobody but Nintendo makes those kind of games either; there are a lot of weak and feeble imitations of them around, but the real thing always shines through. Anyway, with Wind Waker and A Link Between Worlds just out, I'd expect it to be a couple more years before we get a new Zelda of any sort.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by sirpigmeat » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:47 am

Matt_B wrote:Just to make it clear, by "realistic" Zelda, I'm not talking about the generic fantasy pap that other companies make, but something of the same lineage as Ocarina, Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword, but using the superior hardware of the Wii U to add a bit of visual flare.

Nobody but Nintendo makes those kind of games either; there are a lot of weak and feeble imitations of them around, but the real thing always shines through.
That's a fair point... Although I think pikmin 3 did show off the hardware a bit... It certainly looked better than anything on 360/ps3, but it just
wasn't flashy enough... having great water and foilage doesn't quite hit the same as giant robot spiders I guess!

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