Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

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kelp7
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by kelp7 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:21 pm

sscott wrote:The Wii-U is now been donated to my kids as their machine, the Skylanders games and Wii Dance 2014 plus 3D Mario Land means the machine gets a lot of play by my kids
You see, and herein lies the problem, that people still don't either know that it is called Mario 3D World or that they don't know there is a Mario 3D Land also and perhaps are further confused therefore about what the difference is. In fact, I think I agree as others have suggested, that there is too much confusion with this generation of Nintendo and I'm siding with those that say a lot of people don't even realise it's a new console. I do think they screwed up by keeping such a similar name. Though I guess they didn't want to abandon the whole 'Mii' concept that goes along with it.
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Analog
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Analog » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:31 pm

this might be of interest, a discussion on the sales figures.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx_QtZLJEQA

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killbot
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by killbot » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:21 pm

HalcyonDaze00 wrote:reading the appalling financial news from nintendo, a better question would be is there room for nintendo in the modern market?
Of course there is, but I think they need to look at how they're doing business. Changes need to be made from the top down, IMO. Iwata needs to prove he has the ideas needed to guide the company out of this slump, or stand down and make way for someone who does.

The key thing is not to panic and drop support for the Wii U. The brand damage of being seen to abandon a console with nearly five million (very angry) users after barely a year on the market would arguably be worse than the financial damage of gritting their teeth and pushing onward. Besides, sales figures in Japan suggest the console is finally beginning to gain some traction there if nowhere else.

What Nintendo need to do is have a frank discussion about the reasons the Wii U isn't working and fix them. It also needs to work at repairing its relationships with third parties. Will Nintendo seriously look at a multi-format future? Possibly, but only if the Wii U can't be saved and the company's next console sells poorly as well. Even then, I'd expect to see them form a relationship with one particular company (probably Sony) rather than going properly multi-format. Nintendo must have a wary eye on Sega, who (while they're still around) haven't really been the same since they left the hardware market.

I'd like to see Nintendo break open the coffers and start spending some of that vast war chest they have. Sign some notable developers and franchises to exclusivity deals that will mean you have to buy a Wii U to play them. Bayonetta 2 is a good step in the right direction, but more like that please.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by slacey1070 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:57 am

If ninty really have access to vast funds, why don't they go out and buy 3 or 4 of the big developers? Bank roll the Wii u with the best developers on the planet?

Ninty is up against a difficult situation, developing for ps4, xbone and pc is easy, as they ate very similar.

More worrying in.some ways is the underperformance of the 3ds... Nintys.home turf.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by pratty » Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:51 am

slacey1070 wrote:If ninty really have access to vast funds, why don't they go out and buy 3 or 4 of the big developers? Bank roll the Wii u with the best developers on the planet?
I think buying up developers might be a bit drastic but certainly it couldn't hurt to grease a few developers' palms for some tempting exlcusives.

I think they missed a trick when Sleeping Dogs was in development limbo, they should have stepped in and made that an exclusive Wii-U launch title. It wasn't the biggest seller but it would have set the tone for the Wii U as more of a console for everybody. I actually think though exclusivity might have actually raised the profile of the game.

Bayonetta 2 is a step in the right direction but I think they need to aim a little higher too, they could really use a real coup or several, like when the Gamecube got Resident Evil 4 initially as an exclusive.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Matt_B » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:08 am

There's not really much point in Nintendo splashing the cash now, as it'd be a year or two at the very least before any games commissioned now started to arrive.

Realistically, they're dependent upon the games that were already in development when the machine launched or, at the latest, started early last year. Also, when the bulk of the best selling games on every Nintendo console ever have been first party ones, you'd think that they'd be looking at their in house teams first and foremost to deliver the goods.

I'd think it's also clear that they launched too soon. The hardware was barely ready, the firmware wasn't ready at all, and the developers have really struggled to get to grips with it. Then again, with Wii development pretty much wrapping up with Skyward Sword and the subsequent drought on that machine, they arguably launched too late. Perhaps they were just damned either way?

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by sirpigmeat » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:47 am

Matt_B wrote:Perhaps they were just damned either way?
Yeah, its easy to say they should have done this, should have done that... and its all very sensible and logical but no one really knows what would have happened if they'd done it differently... I'm sure Nintendo had good reasons for trying it the way they did, it just didn't work out.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Fightersmegamix » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:00 am

Whatever nintendo do they need to do it quickly, I think a £150 bubdle with donkey kong or mario kart as a minimum. Iwata needs to go.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by slacey1070 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:45 am

The Wii U is a great machine for collectors. A relatively small number of games, most of which are high quality and with prices reductions on hardware and games, a complete collection is within reach.

I see Argos are doing Wii Us for £180... the £150 is within reach.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by outdated_gamer » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:10 am

Matt_B wrote: I'd think it's also clear that they launched too soon. The hardware was barely ready, the firmware wasn't ready at all, and the developers have really struggled to get to grips with it. Then again, with Wii development pretty much wrapping up with Skyward Sword and the subsequent drought on that machine, they arguably launched too late. Perhaps they were just damned either way?
Wii U is the system that the Wii could have already been, imo, i.e. the "true" follow-up to the GameCube. I think they got drunk on the success of the Wii a little and overlooked what the competition was doing in the meanwhile. They now have issues competing with the two established systems (i.e. PS3 & X360) and the two "real" next-gen ones (i.e. PS4 & XO). And then there's the portables with their cheap games that the broader audience carves. So yeah, they have some issues adapting to the changing gaming market. Maybe a future unified sort of "hybrid" platform would be the sollution to their sales woes. But for now they'll just have to "ride it out" and slash the prices on their hardware and software if they want more sales, imo.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by PlodMadLoon » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:33 am

slacey1070 wrote: More worrying in.some ways is the underperformance of the 3ds... Nintys.home turf.
I think this is a point which is being overlooked.

In past generations of Nintendo home console that have (arguably) fallen over the hurdles a little, it has always been Nintendo's hand-held monopoly which has sustained them. Whatever can be said about the wavering fortunes of their home console business, there's been a consistency in the sales figures of the GB and DS lines. They've always had the hand-held market sewn up, and even the most viable competitors (and Sony *have* been giving them a pretty good run with the PSP and Vita) have come and gone, while the N have reigned supreme. They are the induspited hand-held kings.

It is perhaps too easy to blame this apparent drop on the ubiquity of your smartphones and tablets, intruding upon the 'traditional' hand-held game space. Yes, perhaps it is too easy to use that as an excuse. But Nintendo have been onto this. The DS and 3DS have got an extensive online presence, Nintendo have diversified their business model. But have they got the sheer bredth of an Android's Google Play, for example? The comparison is fair. What Nintendo maybe lacks, even in this new online battleground arena, is solid third party support, as well as the homebrew spirit.

The game space for hand held devices has, regrettably, changed a lot. We all know it. Those of us who are dedicated gamers will always favour a traditional hand-held console, but there's a much larger market of gamers (even those age groups who in past generations might have been more inclined towards proper hand-helds) who now have it at their fingertips, and feel no need to buy a 3DS or Vita when they've already got something in their pocket that will do the job. Smart phones have completely moved the goal-posts. There's no question about it.

And yet, I refuse to believe that Nintendo can't exist in the hardware race. I've seen them written off so many times over the years, I just can't reconcile that (like the eternal underdogs that they are) they won't pull a wii-esque Rabbit from their hat.

On the other hand, it is (in my view) clear they've got to take a look at their strategy. IMO the most harmful thing they've done in this generation is in so closely associating with their previous hardware. Marketing-wise this is a flaw. The WiiU is a completely different console, but in a thumbnail description it has trouble distinguishing itself from the Wii. The 3DS is a bold step in various ways, but it's asthetic is arguably too tied to the standard DS, leaving consumers thinking they are the same device.

When the Gameboy advance launched, it might have shared the Gameboy name but it brought a brand new look. When the N64 succeeded the SNES, and the Gamecube succeeded the N64, and the Wii succeeded the Gamecube, nobody was under any misapprehention that these were new consoles. I've spoken to loads of people (clueless parents, admittedly) who seriously have no idea that there's any difference between a 3DS and a DS. And that speaks volumes for Nintendo's inability to really get their message out there. :(

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Nemesis » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:39 am

slacey1070 wrote: More worrying in.some ways is the underperformance of the 3ds... Nintys.home turf.
It's under performing by Nintendo's high expectations though, especially in comparison to the DS. However, it was the best selling console in Japan and other territories last year. How is it selling in comparison to the Gameboy and Advance for example?
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by outdated_gamer » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:59 am

Nemesis wrote:
slacey1070 wrote: More worrying in.some ways is the underperformance of the 3ds... Nintys.home turf.
It's under performing by Nintendo's high expectations though, especially in comparison to the DS. However, it was the best selling console in Japan and other territories last year. How is it selling in comparison to the Gameboy and Advance for example?
Right, I heard the 3DS was the best-selling system in the UK last year. This is not a very recent pic but I think it shows quite well the sales ratio of the more recent Nintendo systems:

Image

As we can see both, their hardware and software sales declined over time. I think this was kinda bound to happen, looking at heavy competition from rival console systems and mobile devices. With some calculation you can also find out that the Wii U is likely to see similar sales results to the GameCube and the 3DS lower than the DS.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Matt_B » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:14 am

Yeah, the Wii U is roughly on track to sell the same numbers as the Cube and the 3DS should more or less match the GBA.

It's like 2003 all over. Except, of course, that we had the unprecedented glory years of the Wii and DS in between and that's left many, Nintendo included, with unrealistic expectations of what can be achieved.

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killbot
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by killbot » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:56 am

slacey1070 wrote:If ninty really have access to vast funds, why don't they go out and buy 3 or 4 of the big developers? Bank roll the Wii u with the best developers on the planet?

Ninty is up against a difficult situation, developing for ps4, xbone and pc is easy, as they ate very similar.

More worrying in.some ways is the underperformance of the 3ds... Nintys.home turf.
I thought 3DS sales were strong? Especially in Japan, it's the top selling hardware there week in week out and has been for the best part of a year.

As for why they don't just splash the cash... well, part of the reason they have a massive war chest is they're a very conservative, frugal company. They won't throw millions at a risky strategy, that's partly what got Sega into trouble. During the good years (the NES & SNES, later the Wii) they store up cash to see them through the lean years (GC and now the Wii U). It's a strategy that's always worked for them and helped them to survive while the likes of Atari and Sega have come and gone. But... maybe now's the time to dip into the fund. Maybe.
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