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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:33 am
by Megamixer
RodimusPrime wrote:It does not need to shift big numbers. If you have bayonetta 2, Dino Crisis 3, Onimush exclusive, and a couple of others. while just one may not shift units, having people look and see that there is a few exclusives to buy would make people look. I know I would.
That's fair enough. I'd certainly be interested to see what Nintendo could offer to get Capcom to come onboard and shell out to develop a load of exclusives for the minority platform. I wonder if Sega are regretting having Bayonetta 2 locked to the Wii-U and not on the other consoles where it would doubtlessly sell more copies? Obviously the deal was done in the very early days when nobody knew what the Wii-U's sales would be like but still...

I suppose Nintendo part financing the project makes it a moot point in any case.

I have to agree though in your view that a range of cool exclusives would make the system a nicer prospect because in all honesty, I'd probably see it the same way too. If I didn't have a lack of space and a big backlog of other games to play then I'd have probably already bought one for games like Mario 3D World which look amazing.

Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:54 pm
by sirpigmeat
Misery wrote: Hell, the N64 controller is.... well, let's just say I've often heard alot of bad about it. Many players didnt know what to make of it then, and still dont know what to make of it now. I rather liked the N64, but even I think the thing is bloody weird.

But THIS thing? The Wii U one? Oh yeah. You better believe consumers will see it as a gimmick. That thing isnt any slow evolution; it's a massive and bizarrely random LEAP. And that's part of what I mean here as well; I can understand that alot of people HERE, in this place, on this forum, will understand something like that controller. *I* understand it as well, as I've seen just what a tablet in general can do for gaming. But the average consumer DOES NOT know what to make of it. The Wii was easy: All you had to do was hold the thing, and wave it around, and BAM, there you go. Particularly if you had a demonstration area set up in a store for this, it was probably the easiest to understand of all consoles, period. Even those that had never done gaming before could understand that thing.

But this one? No. It's like being given a tablet for the first time, when you're NOT a computer user or at all tech-savvy. A situation that usually results in bafflement. People can find devices like this intimidating. They dont know how it works, they dont know what it's being used for, and they wonder, why cant they just do this the usual way? What does this addition to the normal idea accomplish? Why didnt they just take the ideas of the previous Wii and continue evolving onto that? Doesnt the Wii mean motion controls? These sorts of questions are the things consumers will come up with when they see this. With all of this, it's a MUCH more difficult sale than the easily-understood-by-anyone-at-first-glance Wii.
I think this is a bit of an assumption really... I've had a few people round of all sort of levels of game know how and not one of them found the wiiU pad at all daunting... it really hasn't been an issue at all... most people these days have touchscreen phones, many already have and play on tablets... The wiiU pad is more understandable than the wiiMote really... its just a normal pad with a screen built in... if you can use a pad and have eyeballs your 3 quarters of the way their... also you can poke the screen with your finger, tutorial over! If their is a problem its that not alot of these people knew anything at all about the wiiU, even that it had a touchscreen pad.

I never get people being down on the N64 pad, its one of my faves... Having the trigger over stick allowed for shooting precision that nothing has matched since... In goldeneye you could sorta flick and shoot for several perfect headshots on moving targets everytime. Also the near perfect control in Pilotwings 64, (that i've seen some say are appalling) ... it required the most accuracy of any game i've ever played, just a nano movement over or under could lead to perfect medals or crashing and burning... if anyone sucked it was just because they weren't good enough!

Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:31 am
by outdated_gamer
Interesting "inside story" regarding the issues of development for the Wii U:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... side-story

Seems the low CPU is quite an issue for the developers. Lacking documentation and poor tools remind on another, much older system they had too.

Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:09 am
by kelp7
Pfft, the 3rd-party developers all want it handed to them on a plate? They should be reverse engineering the thing like in the old days with people reverse-engineering the atari 2600 etc :)

Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:48 am
by ToxieDogg
sirpigmeat wrote:I never get people being down on the N64 pad, its one of my faves
Amen to that.

I still see people complaining about it to this day just because they've never learned how to hold it properly for the type of game they were playing, even when it was shown explicitly in the instruction booklets at the time how you should be holding it with diagrams (ie. if you're playing a game that uses the analogue stick, hold the middle prong with your left hand, not the right prong).

It's much more down to the players being a bit thick than Nintendo's 'poor' design. :wink:

Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:03 am
by RodimusPrime
ToxieDogg wrote:
sirpigmeat wrote:I never get people being down on the N64 pad, its one of my faves
Amen to that.

I still see people complaining about it to this day just because they've never learned how to hold it properly for the type of game they were playing, even when it was shown explicitly in the instruction booklets at the time how you should be holding it with diagrams (ie. if you're playing a game that uses the analogue stick, hold the middle prong with your left hand, not the right prong).

It's much more down to the players being a bit thick than Nintendo's 'poor' design. :wink:

I know exactly how to hold the N64 pad, and while it is not bad it definitely is not one of my preffered pads. If you like it thats great, just don't assume everyone else who does not like it, is disliking it because they are too dumb to use it properly.

Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:04 am
by HalcyonDaze00
RodimusPrime wrote:
ToxieDogg wrote:
sirpigmeat wrote:I never get people being down on the N64 pad, its one of my faves
Amen to that.

I still see people complaining about it to this day just because they've never learned how to hold it properly for the type of game they were playing, even when it was shown explicitly in the instruction booklets at the time how you should be holding it with diagrams (ie. if you're playing a game that uses the analogue stick, hold the middle prong with your left hand, not the right prong).

It's much more down to the players being a bit thick than Nintendo's 'poor' design. :wink:

I know exactly how to hold the N64 pad, and while it is not bad it definitely is not one of my preffered pads. If you like it thats great, just don't assume everyone else who does not like it, is disliking it because they are too dumb to use it properly.
indeed, its a poor pad, no question about that.

Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:19 am
by gman72
I knew how to hold it and I disliked the N64 pad.

Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:10 pm
by crusto
I wasn't too keen either tbh, it was decent enough, just not for me. The SNES pad was awesome though...

Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:15 pm
by outdated_gamer
kelp7 wrote:Pfft, the 3rd-party developers all want it handed to them on a plate? They should be reverse engineering the thing like in the old days with people reverse-engineering the atari 2600 etc :)
Reverse engineering in today's times? :wink:

For the homebrewers and/or programming enthusiasts that may be an attractive option but if you're a developer you just want the easiest way to get your game done.

After all, both Sony and MS went with X86 type architectures this gen exactly with the purpose to ease things for developers. We could even say that Sony and MS design their hardware to please the 3rd party devs, which can't be exactly said for Nintendo.

Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:54 pm
by sirpigmeat
Pad love always sorta depends on spending alot of time with it and playing certain games with it... After getting perfects on every level of pilot wings 64 that pad was like a second hand to me... Whether you liked it or not you can't call it poor if its capable of such symbiosis... It had fatal flaws like having to move your hand to use different parts of the pad... but it also perfectly complemented certain games in a way no jack of all trades pad design like the PS2/Gamecube pad could have done...

I'm starting to feel a bit like this about the wiiU pad after completing Pikmin3...

Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:04 pm
by sirpigmeat
ToxieDogg wrote:
sirpigmeat wrote:I never get people being down on the N64 pad, its one of my faves
Amen to that.

I still see people complaining about it to this day just because they've never learned how to hold it properly for the type of game they were playing, even when it was shown explicitly in the instruction booklets at the time how you should be holding it with diagrams (ie. if you're playing a game that uses the analogue stick, hold the middle prong with your left hand, not the right prong).

It's much more down to the players being a bit thick than Nintendo's 'poor' design. :wink:
I suppose to be fair when you design anything you should take into account that the average person is a dipstick... That's why the Playstation pad got rid of letters on their buttons and went for pretty colored shapes...

Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:22 am
by outdated_gamer
You may not like the N64 pad, the thing still had one of the most ergonomic designs ever. It was made for 3D games specifically, with the analogue stick, Z-trigger and the C-buttons (usually used to control the camera). The pad also introduced the rumble feature which was sold separately or bundled with games like Star Fox 64. You may have needed a moment or two to get a grip of it but I don't see how even five year olds couldn't handle the pad after a few minutes of getting used to it and figuring it out. Sure, the left side of the pad went mostly unused, but the amount of 2D-centric games on the console was marginal anyway or could be played just with the stick. If you want a more simplistic pad for the N64 check out the Hori N64 pad which reminds a little on the NGC pad.

Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:10 pm
by ToxieDogg
HalcyonDaze00 wrote:
RodimusPrime wrote:
ToxieDogg wrote:
It's much more down to the players being a bit thick than Nintendo's 'poor' design. :wink:

I know exactly how to hold the N64 pad, and while it is not bad it definitely is not one of my preffered pads. If you like it thats great, just don't assume everyone else who does not like it, is disliking it because they are too dumb to use it properly.
indeed, its a poor pad, no question about that.
Sorry, I'll put about 5 winks next time just so we're all absolutely 100% positive that it was a jokey, tongue in cheek comment that wasn't meant to offend those of you who might've received a humour bypass for Christmas. :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

It was certainly a lot more comfortable for playing Nintendo's N64 games than a 'normal' controller though....for instance, playing Super Mario 64 via the Wii Virtual Console using a Wii Classic Controller, or even a Gamecube controller doesn't feel right at all, and that's not just because I'm used to playing it with a different pad, it's because the gameplay was tailor made around the original N64 controller. Even if I could map the buttons and camera controls exactly the way I wanted them on a different controller, it would still feel 'off'. Same goes games like Lylat Wars (Starfox 64) and Waverace 64 as well.....certainly with Starfox, I've even struggled a little with Nintendo's own 3DS remake because it doesn't feel like the 3DS control scheme is suited to it at all.

Horses for courses and all that though. I honestly (honestly) don't really think people who don't like the N64 controller are thickos. :lol:

Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:15 pm
by Misery
sirpigmeat wrote: I think this is a bit of an assumption really... I've had a few people round of all sort of levels of game know how and not one of them found the wiiU pad at all daunting... it really hasn't been an issue at all... most people these days have touchscreen phones, many already have and play on tablets... The wiiU pad is more understandable than the wiiMote really... its just a normal pad with a screen built in... if you can use a pad and have eyeballs your 3 quarters of the way their... also you can poke the screen with your finger, tutorial over! If their is a problem its that not alot of these people knew anything at all about the wiiU, even that it had a touchscreen pad.

I never get people being down on the N64 pad, its one of my faves... Having the trigger over stick allowed for shooting precision that nothing has matched since... In goldeneye you could sorta flick and shoot for several perfect headshots on moving targets everytime. Also the near perfect control in Pilotwings 64, (that i've seen some say are appalling) ... it required the most accuracy of any game i've ever played, just a nano movement over or under could lead to perfect medals or crashing and burning... if anyone sucked it was just because they weren't good enough!

Oh, you'd be surprised..... quite alot of people have, and use, things like smartphones without actually really knowing how to use them. They can call, they can text..... and that's it. It's something I've run into a thousand times recently. .....it's something that also gets really old, too. I dunno why people buy things like tablets that cost so much but then never learn how to use them.... but that's a whole different rant. It's not even about not knowing how to use something like that, though. A product like this is still not going to make sense to many, and that's something that affects sales, usually heavily. And heck, it can bring up a whole other question: "If this thing is like a tablet, why should I buy it? It's just gonna be like the games I can get on my own phone/tablet, after all!" That's another one I've heard a few times recently. That the console hooks up mainly to a TV instead of just being on the controller all the time doesnt stop people from asking things like that. Consumers as a whole.... well, they aint very bright. Which can make products like this have a much harder time than they otherwise would.

Anyway, even those that have and understand these things can get negative ideas from it. Despite the fact that tablets/whatever such as iOS or Android devices do have "hardcore" games, many actual gamers also associate them with the dreaded "casual" sort (gasp!), and that's one thing that I keep hearing stamped onto the Wii U sort of automatically. Or you get those that just think it's weird.... I can understand THAT one. Even if I think the thing has potential, I'll always see it as another Nintendo gimmick.... and the unanswered question is always "WHY cant they just focus on the actual games for once, like they used to?". Not just their first-party titles, but also making sure that the third-party stuff is there also. And of course, there's no easy answer to that.


As for the N64 controller, I dont actually think it's bad, but I still always thought it to be a tad dumb. Not that it matters, I got rid of that thing a long while ago.