Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

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ALK
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by ALK » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:48 pm

I can easily see them doing another Nintendo Direct soon, like the one this time last year when they revealed some games that are nowhere near complete (Yoshi's Epic Yarn, Fire Emblem crossover ring any bells?) but of course, even if they were to reveal a new Starfox, Metroid and F Zero real soon, won't help in the long run if they won't be coming out this year or even the next as games take time to make.

Unless they REALLY do something about the lack of 3rd party, I wouldn't be surprised if that rumor about HD remade/upscaled Nintendo games happens very soon...
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by crusto » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:31 am

ALK wrote:I can easily see them doing another Nintendo Direct soon, like the one this time last year when they revealed some games that are nowhere near complete (Yoshi's Epic Yarn, Fire Emblem crossover ring any bells?) but of course, even if they were to reveal a new Starfox, Metroid and F Zero real soon, won't help in the long run if they won't be coming out this year or even the next as games take time to make.

Unless they REALLY do something about the lack of 3rd party, I wouldn't be surprised if that rumor about HD remade/upscaled Nintendo games happens very soon...
Actraiser HD would turn the Wii U into an instant purchase for me :D

I think it's a great idea, super mario all stars HD, yoshis Island HD, F zero HD, Soul Blazer HD etc etc.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by sirpigmeat » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:07 am

Nemesis wrote:
sirpigmeat wrote:
Nemesis wrote:Every time somebody tries to explain the Wii U's poor retail performance they always fall back on the "Joe Public doesn't understand what the Wii U is". I'm sorry but that's a load of guff. Joe Public knows exactly what the Wii U is but just isn't that interested in it. Unless you're an ardent Nintendo fan there's not much to draw you to the Wii U that isn't done equally well or better on other formats.
I know lots of people who didn't even know it was out, no matter what it is... I'm not saying they'd all rush out and get one if they did, but it certainly can't help sales... How would "joe public" know "exactly what it is"? Theres been no adverts and these people aren't trawling game sites looking for console release information...

Also the kind of games that nintendo make just aren't represented or very poorly so on other consoles... Wii sales show the public like these sort of games, so i'd think this shows that the wiiU does have some drawing power...
Sorry, but I just don't buy that. How long has the WiiU been out for now? You don't have to be trawling websites to know about the WiiU either. GAME has WiiU demo pods in many of its stores up and down the country and anyone who has the faintest interest in gaming has probably walked into one at some point. If there are currently Wii owners who want to upgrade, wouldn't they be asking the question when will Nintendo release a follow up?
The people interested in games is a much wider spectrum nowadays and they don't all keep abreast of game news or drop into GAME to test out new machines... My father in law owns an xbox360 and a wii and had heard of wiiU but didn't know about the game pad... I know several other people who own wiis and other consoles who didn't know anything about the wiiU at all... buy it or don't I don't care.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by samhain81 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:27 am

I'm still sticking with the 'Should have gone with a different name' argument

Wii 2
Wii HD
Super Wii


There, all better names. That wasn't so hard, was it Nintendo

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:44 am

samhain81 wrote:I'm still sticking with the 'Should have gone with a different name' argument

Wii 2
Wii HD
Super Wii


There, all better names. That wasn't so hard, was it Nintendo
Super Wii! Yes, bring back the glory days of the SNES....we could abbreviate it the SWii.

Nintendo have clearly blundered a lot with this move. Its hard to maintain back to back generation winning successes. Nintendo did it from the NES to the SNES, and Sony with the PS1 to PS2, but its tough, as people aren't THAT loyal I think as they used to be with consoles. Most just buy them all these days as credit has become so readily available, and people want everything NOW NOW NOW. :)

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Nemesis » Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:37 am

sirpigmeat wrote: buy it or don't I don't care.
Good for you.....

The biggest problem I can see is that the WiiU doesn't have an equivalent game that had the success of Wii Sports which also demonstrated what the Wii was all about. The Wii was all about a new way of playing games that, people who weren't traditionally gamers, got involved with. The Wii U with its emphasis on the gamepad goes back in the direction of the core gamer despite compatibility with the Wii mote.
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sirpigmeat
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by sirpigmeat » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:59 am

Nemesis wrote:
sirpigmeat wrote: buy it or don't I don't care.
Good for you.....

The biggest problem I can see is that the WiiU doesn't have an equivalent game that had the success of Wii Sports which also demonstrated what the Wii was all about. The Wii was all about a new way of playing games that, people who weren't traditionally gamers, got involved with. The Wii U with its emphasis on the gamepad goes back in the direction of the core gamer despite compatibility with the Wii mote.
Yeah, if anything the wiiU isn't gimmicky or novelty enough to draw in the those non traditional players... I find its more of a utility than a gimmick...

Nintendo land could have been that game but instead its just a bunch of really well designed mini-games... Actually to any gamer probly alot better than wii Sports ever was... but not alot to amaze the rubes with!

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by outdated_gamer » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:09 pm

Sephiroth81 wrote:
samhain81 wrote:I'm still sticking with the 'Should have gone with a different name' argument

Wii 2
Wii HD
Super Wii


There, all better names. That wasn't so hard, was it Nintendo
Super Wii! Yes, bring back the glory days of the SNES....we could abbreviate it the SWii.
That's actually how they called the system in some Japanese commercials. But it seems to me that 3DS is more of a "modern SNES" than the Wii U is. I mean look at the new 3DS Zelda, upcomming Yoshi's Island 2, ect. It would only need a new side-scrolling Metroid game and it would be basically a "SNES 2".

Speaking of remakes, let's not forget Wave Race, 1080 Boarding, Excite Bikes, NBA Courtside, Eternal Darkness, ect. These games might not have sold that well on the GameCube, I think they could still benefit the U by expanding it's line-up of games and genres. If sequels are out of question then HD remakes with some new features (e.g. online play, touch-screen implementation) could be an option (of course for a reasonable price).

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Nemesis » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:07 pm

sirpigmeat wrote:
Yeah, if anything the wiiU isn't gimmicky or novelty enough to draw in the those non traditional players... I find its more of a utility than a gimmick...

Nintendo land could have been that game but instead its just a bunch of really well designed mini-games... Actually to any gamer probly alot better than wii Sports ever was... but not alot to amaze the rubes with!
Thing is, it's easy to say in retrospect that the Wiimote was a bit gimmicky, but actually this did make it more accessible and welcoming than a traditional controller with a myriad of buttons, twin sticks etc. It meant that someone who didn't game usually could pick up a Wiimote, start waving it around and having fun. Wii sports advertised this better than any other Nintendo game out there. All of a sudden a Nintendo platform could survive and grow without relying solely on Mario, Zelda etc.

People who say that the Wii U needs another Zelda, Mario Kart et al are just asking for games that preach to the converted. For me, Nintendo need to get back to why the Wii so successful in the first place. More emphasis on using and developing the technology behind the Wii mote and encourage those who are averse to being thumb stick wizards to pick up the Wii U. The gamepad will still be an integral feature of the system, which will then cater for the hardcore and casual alike. (Hopefully!)
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RodimusPrime
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by RodimusPrime » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:50 pm

Without a doubt, watch as the current excitement for PS4 and Xbox one dies down a little bit and everyone starts buying a cheap WiiU as a 2nd machine. sales will steadily climb.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by sirpigmeat » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:42 pm

Nemesis wrote: Thing is, it's easy to say in retrospect that the Wiimote was a bit gimmicky, but actually this did make it more accessible and welcoming than a traditional controller with a myriad of buttons, twin sticks etc. It meant that someone who didn't game usually could pick up a Wiimote, start waving it around and having fun. Wii sports advertised this better than any other Nintendo game out there. All of a sudden a Nintendo platform could survive and grow without relying solely on Mario, Zelda etc.
I agree and I didn't mean gimmicky quite, I meant more like exciting... the wiimote was more exciting to the average person than the wiiU pad... and I agree, wiisports certainly showed off what it could do better than nintendo land... I didn't have a problem with wiisports, it was nice at the time to have something that everyone and anyone could play.
Nemesis wrote: People who say that the Wii U needs another Zelda, Mario Kart et al are just asking for games that preach to the converted. For me, Nintendo need to get back to why the Wii so successful in the first place. More emphasis on using and developing the technology behind the Wii mote and encourage those who are averse to being thumb stick wizards to pick up the Wii U. The gamepad will still be an integral feature of the system, which will then cater for the hardcore and casual alike. (Hopefully!)
Nintendo fans come in lots of shades of converted though... Not all of these people are gonna just go out and grab the console on spec... I know alot of Nintendo fans who have waited til now because its not had the games to make it worth it... Some are just hooked on one particular franchise... my brother will only buy it once Zelda is out... So I think Nintendo do need to get some of their franchises out to really mobilize their fan base...

I hope they do keep developing the wiimote tech though, skyward sword really started to show what was possible with it...

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by crusto » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:55 pm

Strange how opinions can vary so much! I think the wiimote completely ruined skyward sword, for me anyway. Why couldn't they put standard controls in too?
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by sirpigmeat » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:18 am

crusto wrote:Strange how opinions can vary so much! I think the wiimote completely ruined skyward sword, for me anyway. Why couldn't they put standard controls in too?
I think it added a dimension to the standard control system that hasn't been done before, at least not as well... Controls are sort of third person, you look at the control and press a button which is mapped to a certain movement... even alot of the wii games used the motion detector more like a button... ie swing it left for left strike... but in skyward sword you have 1st person control, your hand is links hand... its almost like your hand is in the game! This is the first game that's used the wiimote, that i've played, that's actually really done this... if there had been more maybe you'd get more used to it and find more enjoyment from the system?

Also some of the bad guys had some really ace death strategies... I liked that one who shoots missiles that you knock back at it with the sheild, then it sends down drones that have vertical/horizontal lines and you have to chop em in half... the eybots that you chop down with different directional slices and then stab in the eye were great too...

Unfortunately these baddies also make the standard controls you wanted a little hard to do, having to implement horizontal, vertical, 2 diaganol strikes, stab, not to mention having all the different things that you could do with secondary items, rolling bombs, 1to1 net control etc. Would have been a bit fiddly to play maybe?

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by outdated_gamer » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:55 am

Nemesis wrote:
sirpigmeat wrote:
Yeah, if anything the wiiU isn't gimmicky or novelty enough to draw in the those non traditional players... I find its more of a utility than a gimmick...

Nintendo land could have been that game but instead its just a bunch of really well designed mini-games... Actually to any gamer probly alot better than wii Sports ever was... but not alot to amaze the rubes with!
People who say that the Wii U needs another Zelda, Mario Kart et al are just asking for games that preach to the converted. For me, Nintendo need to get back to why the Wii so successful in the first place. More emphasis on using and developing the technology behind the Wii mote and encourage those who are averse to being thumb stick wizards to pick up the Wii U. The gamepad will still be an integral feature of the system, which will then cater for the hardcore and casual alike. (Hopefully!)
But how much interest is there for the system outside of fans of traditional Nintendo franchises? We have seen games like ZombiU and Wonderful 101 being commercial flops (I have a feeling the same will happen to Bayonetta 2) and games like Nintendo Land doing nothing to get interest of the broader audience. Even the new Wii Sports seems to not have that broad attraction to it anymore. I think most of the people who got a Wii are either disinterested in the Wii U or they switched to portable devices while those who weren't interested in the Wii aren't really interested in the Wii U either and rather look towards the "real" next-gen systems or do their gaming on systems they own. So this basically leaves Nintendo with a certain group of people who simply like their traditional franchises and buy their systems for them. It's not really about features, it's about the games. And this may be something Nintendo may have difficulty understanding now due to how large success the DS and Wii were. I think the DS and Wii were somewhat of a gamble - let's try it and see if it succeeds. And it worked two times but now it seems it's not really working anymore. In this regard Nintendo reminds me of Sega and Atari a lot since those two also did a lot of gambling on the systems they made. And ironically, they both dropped out of the hardware race.

I just think the traditional Nintendo franchises should be priority for Nintendo, but I also think they needed better ties with Western developers. I have already said this but I think Nintendo would really need someone like Rare was again, an exclusive developer that knows what's going on and what is raved about. Rare were great at that, giving Donkey Kong the much needed modern makeover and proving to gamers that you can have "32-bit like" games on 16-bit systems (using pre-rendered graphics but still), making a fighter that was easily on-par with the then ultra popular Street Fighter II and Mortal Kombat, making the first trully shining first-person shooter for the consoles with addictive multiplayer, a take on Mario Kart that, in many ways, superseded Mario Kart, a 3D platformer that, likewise, outdid SM64 in many ways (despite being very inspired after it), making original games that were appreciated by the gaming press and enthusiast gamers like Blast Corps, Jet Force Gemini, Conker's BFD, ect. That's the kind of a exclusive developer Nintendo would need now, imo.

Maybe they could push Retro Studios to make more projects, both, unique ones as well as take-ons on popular Nintendo franchises. There is a reason why Naughty Dog is the most valued Sony's developer these days.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Nemesis » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:06 am

outdated_gamer wrote: I just think the traditional Nintendo franchises should be priority for Nintendo,
This is the problem for me, they're too reliant on their own IP to carry their own hardware. It runs the risk of Nintendo becoming marginalised in the long term. They've done incredibly well to maintain the quality of their IP's but it only takes a couple of duds for the rot to set in.

If people want Nintendo games on Nintendo hardware that's all well and good, and yes they need that too for their fans , however, they should be always look to expand their user base. Their portable business has consistently helped Nintendo through the lean times on the home console front in the past but as portable gaming becomes more fragmented, the room for manoeuvre grows less & less.
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