Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

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Lost Dragon
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Lost Dragon » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:39 pm

:wink: i was'nt going to type too much out (in orig. post) about Dino Crisis 3, as not sure if i could even post it, way forums been today.

My point was, an exclusive on it's own is worthless, if it's not been designed to make most of host hardware and offer something players will flock to. Xbox Dino Crisis 3 was ruined by a god awful camera system.

There's huge potential for a Wii U reboot of Dino Crisis or a 4th game in the series, but i'd have thought it was the sort of thing Nintendo should have looked at securing long before now.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Matt_B » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:51 pm

kelp7 wrote:That VGChartz bar graph is interesting isn't it? What is going on with that PS Vita bar?
It's scaled against the 3DS as that's the top handheld, rather than the Wii U which the home consoles are scaled again.

And yes, it's really getting its arse kicked that badly at the moment. Sony will doubtless be hoping that the success of the PS4, and the possibilities of using the two together, will revitalize it in the near future though.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by ToxieDogg » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:24 pm

Lost Dragon wrote::wink: i was'nt going to type too much out (in orig. post) about Dino Crisis 3, as not sure if i could even post it, way forums been today.

My point was, an exclusive on it's own is worthless, if it's not been designed to make most of host hardware and offer something players will flock to. Xbox Dino Crisis 3 was ruined by a god awful camera system.

There's huge potential for a Wii U reboot of Dino Crisis or a 4th game in the series, but i'd have thought it was the sort of thing Nintendo should have looked at securing long before now.
Huge potential yes, but history dictates otherwise. Look at all the other 'great' series that have been 'rebooted' or 'revitalised'. Resident Evil 4 was fantastic, but it was also a bit of a fluke when you look at the likes of Dino Crisis 3, the DMC reboot, House Of The Dead Overkill, Silent Hill reboots etc.....they're not necessarily all poor games (DMC and House Of The Dead Overkill for example are pretty damn good), but it's a case of people crying out for these games because of happy nostalgic memories of playing the original versions, and then not being happy with the new games if they're not 'perfect', even if they turn out to be good games in their own right. Of course there's huge potential for newer versions of these games to be great but when you look at the facts...reviews and sales figures of remakes/reboots etc, there's also huge potential for newer versions of these games to be extremely badly received as well. Sega couldn't even get Sonic The Hedgehog completely right when after years of criticism for keeping the series in 3D, they returned to it's roots and made another main series side scrolling 2D platformer....many people still weren't happy (myself included). There's ALWAYS going to be a group of people who won't accept them whatsoever in comparison to the rose tinted memories what they played on less powerful hardware years ago, so you've an uphill battle from the start.

Capcom (like Konami) have just as much potential to put out crap as well as something great (Final Fight Streetwise also springs to mind) and after the travesties that were Resident Evil: Racoon City and Resident Evil 6, it's a series that sorely needs to go back to basics.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Shinobi » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:14 pm

ToxieDogg wrote:
Lost Dragon wrote::wink: i was'nt going to type too much out (in orig. post) about Dino Crisis 3, as not sure if i could even post it, way forums been today.

My point was, an exclusive on it's own is worthless, if it's not been designed to make most of host hardware and offer something players will flock to. Xbox Dino Crisis 3 was ruined by a god awful camera system.

There's huge potential for a Wii U reboot of Dino Crisis or a 4th game in the series, but i'd have thought it was the sort of thing Nintendo should have looked at securing long before now.
Huge potential yes, but history dictates otherwise. Look at all the other 'great' series that have been 'rebooted' or 'revitalised'. Resident Evil 4 was fantastic, but it was also a bit of a fluke when you look at the likes of Dino Crisis 3, the DMC reboot, House Of The Dead Overkill, Silent Hill reboots etc.....they're not necessarily all poor games (DMC and House Of The Dead Overkill for example are pretty damn good), but it's a case of people crying out for these games because of happy nostalgic memories of playing the original versions, and then not being happy with the new games if they're not 'perfect', even if they turn out to be good games in their own right. Of course there's huge potential for newer versions of these games to be great but when you look at the facts...reviews and sales figures of remakes/reboots etc, there's also huge potential for newer versions of these games to be extremely badly received as well. Sega couldn't even get Sonic The Hedgehog completely right when after years of criticism for keeping the series in 3D, they returned to it's roots and made another main series side scrolling 2D platformer....many people still weren't happy (myself included). There's ALWAYS going to be a group of people who won't accept them whatsoever in comparison to the rose tinted memories what they played on less powerful hardware years ago, so you've an uphill battle from the start.

Capcom (like Konami) have just as much potential to put out crap as well as something great (Final Fight Streetwise also springs to mind) and after the travesties that were Resident Evil: Racoon City and Resident Evil 6, it's a series that sorely needs to go back to basics.
Games like Dino Crisis 3 or Resident Call of Duty 6 are liked by the Chavs and the casual gamers.. These people wouldn't like the earlier Resident Evils as the puzzles and limited ammo and health make it too hard for that.. They just want easy action heavy games that don't involve thinking and Capcom alienated the fans by aiming at the casuals..

Same with Overkill and Agent Washington a meathead who just swears all the time, doesn't improve the gameplay but draws in a lot of people who normally wouldn't bother! Washington unlike the average COD player i's actually funny and the satire how when he see's a real Mother F'er he doesn't say it.. Devil May Cry reboot flopped from what I read the cheevo's where to hard..

It seems that Nintendo are the only remaining hardware manufacture who still support the hardcore gamer, and to a lesser extent Sony as they do get good exclusives for the PS3.. The only good 360 exclusive was Fable, can't think of any other 360 exclusive apart from Gears and Halo both FPS and most games are multi format releases.. I could tolerate the garbage like FIFA on the Wii U as it allows stuff like Bayonetta 2 to be developed.. I wuon't be buying either next gen console as Nintendo have the best games
Last edited by Shinobi on Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by killbot » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:51 pm

I agree Nintendo need to get some 3rd party exclusives, though they already have the latest Monster Hunter and Sonic games exclusive to their platforms. Bayonetta is a step in the right direction.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by learnedrobb » Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:10 pm

There is a place for the WiiU in the 'new' generation of consoles.

As others have stated, it is most likely to be many gamers 2nd system, bought just for Mario/Zelda etc. I'd guess it will carve out a 'GameCube' sized niche compared to the Xbone and PS4.

For me its an alternative. My WiiU is getting far more usage since Xmas than my PS3 or Xbox 360. When I eventually get my PS4, I suspect that much like now, I shall split my time between the machines based on which game I fancy playing on any given day.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Negative Creep » Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:27 pm

Shinobi wrote:Same with Overkill and Agent Washington a meathead who just swears all the time, doesn't improve the gameplay but draws in a lot of people who normally wouldn't bother! Washington unlike the average COD player i's actually funny and the satire how when he see's a real Mother F'er he doesn't say it

It's hardly as if the original HotD games were deep and complex character studies
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by DeafTard911 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:12 pm

I think the Wii U will pick up a bit more steam when nintendo announces a new zelda, metroid, etc for the Wii U BUT I am pretty sure that the Wii U will not copy the success of the Nintendo Wii phenomenon since the Nintendo Wii blew up like CRAZY when the Wii was released back then. I wonder if the Wii U will surpass the total amount of Gamecube units sold on this planet earth

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by kelp7 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:28 am

Shinobi wrote:It seems that Nintendo are the only remaining hardware manufacture who still support the hardcore gamer, and to a lesser extent Sony as they do get good exclusives for the PS3..
...and winner of the "most distracting forum signature whilst trying to read their posts" is yourself :)
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Misery
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Misery » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:52 pm

killbot wrote:
Misery wrote:The simplest way to think about it is this: If it's not a basic, simple controller, it is a gimmick.
So the NES and Master System controllers were gimmicks (a d-pad instead of a joystick? Two fire buttons?), as were the N64 controller (what's this stupid analogue thing?), Dual Shock (TWO stupid analogue things?) and the Dreamcast controller (why is there a screen on the controller?).

Game controller design is a constant process of change and evolution. Sometimes the changes introduced will be considered good ones and be adopted (d-pads, analogue sticks, shoulder buttons) and other times they won't. Sometimes a change will be made that at the time seems like a blind alley but which just wasn't right at the time and will later be revisited and become more accepted (the analogue sticks on the 5200 and the Dreamcast's second screen both being examples).

If you banned anyone from experimenting with new ways to control games, we'd still be using digital joysticks with one fire button, or even little paddles with no fire button at all. And that would seriously limit the kind of games you were able to make. That's the point - innovations in control frees up software designers to do new things as well.

What I MEAN is, a controller that goes TOO far from the usual norm.

Hell, the N64 controller is.... well, let's just say I've often heard alot of bad about it. Many players didnt know what to make of it then, and still dont know what to make of it now. I rather liked the N64, but even I think the thing is bloody weird.

But yes, obviously the "basics" of a controller is going to evolve over time.... generally, this is a very slow process and wont bother most consumers. Provided they notice. The leap from "stick" to "d-pad" was probably the largest, way back when. The analog bit was a bit different, as the controllers still had d-pads, and you hold/use something with an analog in the same way as a d-pad, with your left thumb.

But THIS thing? The Wii U one? Oh yeah. You better believe consumers will see it as a gimmick. That thing isnt any slow evolution; it's a massive and bizarrely random LEAP. And that's part of what I mean here as well; I can understand that alot of people HERE, in this place, on this forum, will understand something like that controller. *I* understand it as well, as I've seen just what a tablet in general can do for gaming. But the average consumer DOES NOT know what to make of it. The Wii was easy: All you had to do was hold the thing, and wave it around, and BAM, there you go. Particularly if you had a demonstration area set up in a store for this, it was probably the easiest to understand of all consoles, period. Even those that had never done gaming before could understand that thing.

But this one? No. It's like being given a tablet for the first time, when you're NOT a computer user or at all tech-savvy. A situation that usually results in bafflement. People can find devices like this intimidating. They dont know how it works, they dont know what it's being used for, and they wonder, why cant they just do this the usual way? What does this addition to the normal idea accomplish? Why didnt they just take the ideas of the previous Wii and continue evolving onto that? Doesnt the Wii mean motion controls? These sorts of questions are the things consumers will come up with when they see this. With all of this, it's a MUCH more difficult sale than the easily-understood-by-anyone-at-first-glance Wii.


And dont get me wrong here: I dont think that just because something is a gimmick, that it is automatically bad. As I've stated before, I thought the Wii U had potential to it; albeit potential that isnt really being met yet (not enough games), but still. And I've liked Nintendo's older ones.... the Super Scope, for instance, I loved that thing. And I seem to be one of the very few that actually enjoyed the Virtual Boy.

However, Nintendo's gimmicks end up being very..... unpredictable, in terms of what happens with them. The DS ended up taking off, and did well for them. As did the Wii's thing, sort of. But the vast majority of their gimmicks, well.... Nintendo often doesnt seem to know what to DO with them once they have them. And from what I've seen, that's been the case with the Wii U as well. Nintendo seemed to jump in with the idea of "The previous system printed money: Thus, this one will too". That hasnt really been the case, and now they seem a little lost on exactly what they should be doing with it. With all most of their older gimmicky stuff, the devices would get one or two supporting games, and then just fall by the wayside. Nintendo is famous for this, though less so these days as they're releasing gimmicky things as entire consoles, rather than just addons to a console.


There's more to say, but I havent been awake long and havent had my caffiene yet, so I've lost track of what it was.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by outdated_gamer » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:30 am

In my opinion, a gimmick is something that doesn't necessarily improve the gaming experience. For example I don't consider the D-pad a gimmick because it made control of 2D console games a lot more practical, as did the analog stick improve the control of 3D games. The same can be said for joysticks, Arcade sticks, keyboards, computer mice, steering wheels, light guns, ect. Those devices all improve the game experience. On the other hand, you have devices which don't necessarily improve the experience such as rumble feature, touch screens, motion control, 3D, ect. While those may add to the immersion, they don't necessarily also improve the way games are being played. But it also depends how they are used. For example some people are quick to call VR a gimmick, but things like VR googles, moving chairs, ect. can improve immersion tenfold in various simulation and/or Arcade style games. Flight simulation enthusiasts or racing simulation enthustiasts may benefit greatly for these devices and there may be fitting for some on-rails shooters too. But like I said before, it depends how things are being used. For example the rumble feature can give you a better sense of movement when playing in a dark section, fishing, feeling the road in racing games, ect. 3D can give you a better sense of depth in games that use 3D or pseudo 3D graphics, allowing for better orientation in space. Touch screens can be good for "point and touch" style adventures, turn-based strategy games, inventories, ect. Motion controllers can be used as light guns in rail shooters, simulate swords in "hack n slash" games, ect. So it's not like these features/devices have no usage, the issue is just forcing them into the type of games that don't really need, or benefit, from them. So from my perspective, Nintendo did kinda over-load the Wii U GamePad with features that won't necessarily improve the games, but at the same time with some creative usage they could come to greater expression. I just don't think that games would have to be designed around a controller rather than vice-versa.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by BennyTheGreek » Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:50 am

simple answer is yes of course

the wii u with the gamepad and the pro controller is easily my favourite console at the moment...

I couldn't care less about the power of the bits inside and how many things are getting rattled around the various pipes...as long as the games are good....

I havent even bought any of the Nintendo AAA games and I have had more fun playing games such as Lego city undercover and Assassins creed..

The games are cheaper and it seems as though I am going to have a decent library of games in the future...

It will just get better and better...

The PS4 interests me, but to be honest I havent even played the best of the PS3 library yet...(currently half way through the superb Last Of Us)

The new xbox is way too expensive and I have a decent PC so the Wii U fills a lovely little gap in my gaming life...

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by kelp7 » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:09 am

Misery wrote:Doesnt the Wii mean motion controls? These sorts of questions are the things consumers will come up with when they see this. With all of this, it's a MUCH more difficult sale than the easily-understood-by-anyone-at-first-glance Wii.
This may worry you even further but the gamepad on the Wii U *is* a motion controller. And Nintendoland is a great introduction to that fact for average consumers i'm sure.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Megamixer » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:08 am

To all the people calling for a new Dino Crisis, I really don't think it would shift big numbers at all. Though the first two games were great and sold well, the franchise has never been as big a name as Resi (or many others for that matter) and I think significant interest would have trailed off by now. A new game would sell to series die-hards (providing they would actually buy a whole new console just to play it) and existing Wii-U owners looking for a decent game (providing a reboot was decent). I just don't see it generating much more interest beyond that. It would either sell poorly or average but not in way that would make it a system seller.

Can't help but remember other reboots of franchises from the past that were well-loved but the new games went on to sell poorly.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by RodimusPrime » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:20 am

Megamixer wrote:To all the people calling for a new Dino Crisis, I really don't think it would shift big numbers at all. Though the first two games were great and sold well, the franchise has never been as big a name as Resi (or many others for that matter) and I think significant interest would have trailed off by now. A new game would sell to series die-hards (providing they would actually buy a whole new console just to play it) and existing Wii-U owners looking for a decent game (providing a reboot was decent). I just don't see it generating much more interest beyond that. It would either sell poorly or average but not in way that would make it a system seller.

Can't help but remember other reboots of franchises from the past that were well-loved but the new games went on to sell poorly.

It does not need to shift big numbers. If you have bayonetta 2, Dino Crisis 3, Onimush exclusive, and a couple of others. while just one may not shift units, having people look and see that there is a few exclusives to buy would make people look. I know I would.

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