Why did Sega have to leave the hardware race?

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gman72
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Re: Why did Sega have to leave the hardware race?

Post by gman72 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:13 am

paranoid marvin wrote:Two's company, three is a crowd. Two rival machines can share the market, and indeed it can be quite healthy to have choice; but three doesn't work. Basically Nintendo kept their fans,

So Sega fans had the choice of PS2 or Dreamcast. Sony had won the PR war, with the console making it's way into many peoples living rooms who would never have dreamed of having a games machine in their living room. The machine played DVDs, and was backwards-compatible with a vast array of PS1 titles also available - the Dramcast wasn't. The fact is as well that Sega fans had been screwed so many times in the past by the comapny, with the Mega CD, 32X and sub-standard (in comparison to the PS1) Saturn. Sega were releasing lots of machines/add-ons, then not giving them the same support as Sony and Nintendo did with their machines, tehn quickly moving onto the next thing.

I think there was a major concern from Sega fans that they would again end up with the also-ran console when it came to the Dreamcast vs PS2 , just like they did with Saturn vs PS1.

Another major factor in my opinion was EA; PS2 had the latest FIFA release and Sega didn't. This was in FIFA's heyday, when pretty much everyone eagerly awaited the next update. To not be able to play it on the latest machine was a massive drawback.

It was either going to be Nintendo or Sega that lost out, and while Nintendo kept their fans with amazing updates of Zelda, Mario etc. along with AAA third party titles like Goldeneye and FIFA - Sonic Adventure and Sega Bass Fishing simply couldn't compete with that. People didn't just want arcade-perfect ports anymore - partly because they didn't go into arcades any more, but also because gaming had moved on.

Which is a real shame because the Dremcast was a quality machine , and Sega made some ace games.
all true and almost word for word what I said a couple of posts up. :lol:
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RodimusPrime
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Re: Why did Sega have to leave the hardware race?

Post by RodimusPrime » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:44 am

3 consoles can survive at the same time in the market.

WiiU Xboxone, and Ps4
Wii, 360, and PS3
Gamecube, PS2, and Xbox.

One will always do better than others, but all had a strong presence. Usually if one falls at the wayside its because of other factors not because the market can't support 3 consoles.

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Re: Why did Sega have to leave the hardware race?

Post by merman » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:33 pm

Sega did not have to leave the hardware business, they chose to. Because they did not have a huge corporation behind them capable of absorbing millions in debt to develop a new generation of hardware.
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Re: Why did Sega have to leave the hardware race?

Post by DPrinny » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:34 pm

sirclive1 wrote:So called sega fans - destroying the dreamcast pirating games left , right n centre instead of buying them , now grumble like mad as the wonderful dreamcast's commercial life was short lived.
On that,

Back when the Dreamcast was being made we could not sell the games for it, a lot of the times people sold us Dreamcast games even a former good customer sold his DC collection and started parping on about how easy it is to play copys till I told him to censored off

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c0nfu53d
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Re: Why did Sega have to leave the hardware race?

Post by c0nfu53d » Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:53 pm

I kinda hope Sega release a handheld machine. A Android based console would be feasible, surely.

As long as blaze have NOTHING to do with it, natch.

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Re: Why did Sega have to leave the hardware race?

Post by retrosofer » Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:11 pm

1. Mismanagement
2. Consumer Apathy
3. Lack of communication between departments and divisions
4. Too many Chiefs not enough Indians
5. Money - too much going out, not enough coming in
6. Poor third party developer/publisher relations (later years)

Sure people can add more to that list as it goes on and on...

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killbot
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Re: Why did Sega have to leave the hardware race?

Post by killbot » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:34 pm

Sony and Microsoft were huge corporations with vast resources. Nintendo was a smaller company, but run by a very astute, wily businessman who managed the business shrewdly and made it extremely cash-rich.

Sega were always the upstart. They never had the resources or money of their competitors. What they did have was some talent at devising great games, a brilliant arcade heritage to draw on and a clever marketing team. The result was some success with the Master System and far greater success with the Megadrive. The problem was that Sega sunk a lot of the money they made off the back of that success into failed projects like the 32X. Had they invested the Megadrive millions wisely they might have been flush enough to survive a failed product or two. But they didn't, so after the Saturn and Dreamcast underperformed, they were forced to pull out of the race or go bankrupt.

A sad story, I wish they had stuck around because they made some good hardware and some great games. Obviously they're still around as a third-party publisher but I don't think they're the force they were. At least they haven't been quite as embattled as Atari.

Someone suggested recently that Nintendo should buy the Sega brand. It would give them access to Sega's library of franchises as well as their resources, but at the same time it would guarantee the Sega name would stay in the business for the foreseeable future. Which is a great outcome for both sides.
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Re: Why did Sega have to leave the hardware race?

Post by The Laird » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:55 pm

killbot wrote:Someone suggested recently that Nintendo should buy the Sega brand. It would give them access to Sega's library of franchises as well as their resources, but at the same time it would guarantee the Sega name would stay in the business for the foreseeable future. Which is a great outcome for both sides.
God no, that would be horrible.

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killbot
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Re: Why did Sega have to leave the hardware race?

Post by killbot » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:07 pm

Oh, and to add - one major problem was their decision to develop two different successors to the Saturn - one by the Japanese division and one by the US division. They probably thought it was a good idea (the sense of internal competition driving the two teams to outperform each other) but designing one new console isn't cheap and for a company that was already in financial trouble to be needlessly chucking money away like that beggars belief.
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Re: Why did Sega have to leave the hardware race?

Post by DoraemonTheCat » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:57 pm

DPrinny wrote:WALL OF TEXT ARGH MY EYES!!
:lol: That's exactly what I thought.

My eyes were actually a little bit Red when I'd finished reading such a lengthy post :shock:

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Re: Why did Sega have to leave the hardware race?

Post by DoraemonTheCat » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:41 pm

Liamh1982 wrote:Having people like Tom Kalinske and Bernie Stolar making all the wrong decisions and destroying Sega's reputation in their biggest market didn't exactly help.
Wow you are so wrong. Tom Kalinske only made TWO big mistakes - The SEGA/MEGA CD and the 32X. They were both his ideas and they failed miserably. Nearly every other aspect of SoA success during the 16 Bit years can be attributed to him and the decisions he made (and had to fight SoJ to get)

HE was adamant and very vocal that the Saturn should not be released early to go head-to-head with the PlayStation, and SoJ pressed on regardless, releasing a console with a hefty price tag and one that would have benefitted from more time and work done on it before being released.

Which he states in an interview with Sega-16 :

Sega-16: It appears that time has vindicated you regarding your 1994 assessment that the 16-bit market was going to be viable well into 1996, and Nakayama seemed to have made the correct decision for Japan when he chose to discontinue everything in order to focus on the Saturn. However, do you think he should included America and Europe in his decision to discontinue the Genesis when it was still selling so well in those territories? Weren’t they sort of putting all of their eggs in one basket by rushing the Saturn out over the much more established Genesis?

Tom Kalinske: Well, I felt that way. I felt that we were rushing Saturn. We didn’t have the software right, and we didn’t have the pricing right, so I felt we should have stayed with Genesis for another year. I recognize that our volumes would have gone down, but I think we would have been a much healthier company. We would have been more profitable, and I think the folks who appreciated video games would have appreciated that we were still doing a lot of great product on the 16-bit hardware.


With the company in crisis over the Saturn, he was stripped of his control of SoA and left the company shortly after in 1996 (taking most of the staff, including the company's founder, David Rosen, and then Bernie Stolar is hired to replace him) after the Saturn debacle and nothing about the DCs failure can be down to him. Even the Saturn was nothing to do with him. Everything he suggested, which could have HELPED it was ignored by SoJ boss, Hayao Nakayama. He was the MAIN reason why the both the Saturn and DC failed - read here if you disagree :

http://www.sega-16.com/2005/02/tom-kali ... n-samurai/

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Re: Why did Sega have to leave the hardware race?

Post by Antiriad2097 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:23 am

DoraemonTheCat wrote:
Liamh1982 wrote:Having people like Tom Kalinske and Bernie Stolar making all the wrong decisions and destroying Sega's reputation in their biggest market didn't exactly help.
Wow you are so wrong. Tom Kalinske only made TWO big mistakes - The SEGA/MEGA CD and the 32X. They were both his ideas and they failed miserably.
Those two mistakes were the beginning of the end for Sega, massively reducing consumer confidence in their products. Had they not been released and binned so quickly, brand loyalty could have swung in the Saturn's (and thus Dreamcast's) favour.
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Re: Why did Sega have to leave the hardware race?

Post by RetroBob » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:50 am

^^^^^ Totally agree with that. You could argue Nintendo are doing something not wildy different by confusing some people (who don't 'follow' gaming like we do), with the Wii U - is it a different console etc. Of course it is but it seems that some don't get it.
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Re: Why did Sega have to leave the hardware race?

Post by SpockIOM » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:15 am

I kinda missed out on the Dreamcast generation of consoles with being at uni and therefore skint. But just out of curiosity, how much damage did the Saturn do to Sega's reputation?

I had (and still have) a Saturn and I really do like it. It's got some great games in the library like the "uncut" version of Resident Evil, Castlevania SOTN (with more in it that the PS1 version, I believe), Nights into Dreams, Panzer Dragoon series, Virtua Cop 1&2, Sega Rally, Fighters Megamix to name a few. As well as this it had a better CD player than the PS1 had feature-wise and it had internal memory which the PS1 didn't have. All stacks up quite well I'd say.

However the downside was that it had dual processors and was therefore a complete bugger to program for whilst getting the best out of the system. And when developers have a tough time it's got to raise questions in their minds about the system and what its successor will be like.

Obviously, the Mega CD and 32x, as mentioned further up the thread, were swept away. But would this series of events have dented a) consumers confidence in Sega, and more crucially b) developers cofidence?
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Re: Why did Sega have to leave the hardware race?

Post by sirclive1 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:26 pm

DPrinny wrote:
sirclive1 wrote:So called sega fans - destroying the dreamcast pirating games left , right n centre instead of buying them , now grumble like mad as the wonderful dreamcast's commercial life was short lived.
On that,

Back when the Dreamcast was being made we could not sell the games for it, a lot of the times people sold us Dreamcast games even a former good customer sold his DC collection and started parping on about how easy it is to play copys till I told him to censored off
Exactly - proper shame . People can waffle all they like but as soon as game sales dry up , manufacturers won't release many more .
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