How Video Games Changed The World

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ToxieDogg
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Re: How Video Games Changed The World

Post by ToxieDogg » Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:52 pm

The sad thing is, is that you're all getting hung up on that clip of one of the Fatalities. Taken on it's gameplay merits, Mortal Kombat 9 is easily the best MK game in years, and certainly (for me at least) the most enjoyable one since Mortal Kombat 2 with some really solid game mechanics....I've put a lot of hours into the Vita version, a lot more time than I thought I would because I normally think Mortal Kombat is crap compared to Street Fighter and only picked it up because it was cheap.

The violence in it is so over the top it's ridiculous. Certainly nothing very offensive in the grand scheme of things.
killbot wrote:The MK9 clip was... vile. Really, really vile. You have to say, any publisher who lets content like that onto shop shelves is really irresponsible.

Those publishers who take a sensible view of what they are putting out should be leaning on those who don't. The industry needs to start dragging itself out of the gutter or stop moaning about not being taken seriously. The time of trying to have their cake and eat is is over.
Didn't Killer Instinct and Killer Instinct 2 (aka Killer Instinct Gold on N64) have a couple of nasty fatalities in them? And implied nudity (one of B.Orchid's finishers)? And weren't they published by.....Nintendo?
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Re: How Video Games Changed The World

Post by Megamixer » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:45 pm

The MK9 fatalities are ace and the game itself is a brilliant fighter (this coming from somebody who didn't enjoy the older MK games). They are extreme and - dare I say it - satisfying way of finishing a match, especially against opponents who have taken ages to beat. Personally I like the x-ray moves more and would consider those just as brutal as the fatalities. As with everything in games, it just needs to be taken in context...it's not like people are going to go out onto the streets and commit fatalities or think that it's the 'right' thing to do. If anything, the fatalities are so ridiculous and OTT that they can't even be taken seriously. Yes they are violent and bloody but not sadistic or trying to glorify the acts.
ToxieDogg wrote:Didn't Killer Instinct and Killer Instinct 2 (aka Killer Instinct Gold on N64) have a couple of nasty fatalities in them? And implied nudity (one of B.Orchid's finishers)? And weren't they published by.....Nintendo?
Yep, there's one where she flashes the opponent and they drop down dead. Pretty funny I thought :)
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Re: How Video Games Changed The World

Post by HalcyonDaze00 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:51 pm

Antiriad2097 wrote:I thought the MK9 clip was hilarious, its ott ridiculousness made me literally lol on the bus. Made me want to play the game to see what other stupid stuff they've got in there. Its what Mortal Kombat is about, blood and gore to the extreme where it just becomes silly.

There's plenty of room for games like this in the market and I'd hate to see them removed because of a few prudes.
agreed, the MK9 clip was awesome, hadn't seen/read much about the game and after seeing that clip im gonna try and pick it up.

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Re: How Video Games Changed The World

Post by killbot » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:30 pm

ToxieDogg wrote:Didn't Killer Instinct and Killer Instinct 2 (aka Killer Instinct Gold on N64) have a couple of nasty fatalities in them? And implied nudity (one of B.Orchid's finishers)? And weren't they published by.....Nintendo?
Nothing as nasty as that. Not by a long chalk.

And to be fair, even if there were the most recent KI game was well over a decade ago and they haven't published anything like it since. So they obviously learned their lesson.
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crusto
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Re: How Video Games Changed The World

Post by crusto » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:08 pm

I can't understand why people take exception to games like MK. I could understand if games were made where the protagonist goes round battering kids or doing stuff even more unthinkable which I wouldn't type. But a few ott (and funny) fatalities and suddenly the publishers are the devil.

I'm more concerned (and more offended) that there are programmes such as Geordie shore, Towie and take me out being aired and indeed watched. (the list is much bigger btw) Brain bile in its purest form. The country is in a sorry state when the youths idolise a halfwit with teeth (somehow) whiter than Barry gibb's.
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Re: How Video Games Changed The World

Post by DPrinny » Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:09 am

crusto wrote:The country is in a sorry state when the youths idolise a halfwit with teeth (somehow) whiter than Barry gibb's.
Welcome to the world of "Celebrity", im happy to not give a toss about it and point and laugh at those that do

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Re: How Video Games Changed The World

Post by ToxieDogg » Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:37 am

killbot wrote:
ToxieDogg wrote:Didn't Killer Instinct and Killer Instinct 2 (aka Killer Instinct Gold on N64) have a couple of nasty fatalities in them? And implied nudity (one of B.Orchid's finishers)? And weren't they published by.....Nintendo?
Nothing as nasty as that. Not by a long chalk.

And to be fair, even if there were the most recent KI game was well over a decade ago and they haven't published anything like it since. So they obviously learned their lesson.
I still think you and some others are overreacting somewhat, treating MK9 as some kind of 'videogame nasty' without (presumably) ever even having played it. Kind of a lot like how a lot of films such as The Evil Dead were treated the same way during the scaremongering during the early 1980's.

For it's time, I think a couple of the Killer Instinct 2 finishers were pretty nasty, such as TJ Combo pulling out a machine gun and literally riddling the opponent with bullets at the end of the fight, or Sabrewulf summoning a horde of vampire bats to tear the opponent to pieces in a shower of blood. I really don't think Nintendo not publishing anything else like it since has anything to do with them having 'learned a lesson' as such, as they were quite happy to allow Rockstar to release Manhunt 2 and Sega to release MadWorld for Wii....Nintendo could have easily put the blocker on both of those games if they'd wanted.
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Re: How Video Games Changed The World

Post by Antiriad2097 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:51 am

killbot wrote:
ToxieDogg wrote:Didn't Killer Instinct and Killer Instinct 2 (aka Killer Instinct Gold on N64) have a couple of nasty fatalities in them? And implied nudity (one of B.Orchid's finishers)? And weren't they published by.....Nintendo?
Nothing as nasty as that. Not by a long chalk.

And to be fair, even if there were the most recent KI game was well over a decade ago and they haven't published anything like it since. So they obviously learned their lesson.
They did have Mad World as a Wii exclusive. Great little game.
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Re: How Video Games Changed The World

Post by ToxieDogg » Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:02 am

Could also be said that Bayonetta has a fair few offensive OTT elements as well (if the likes of things in MK9 offend you that is)....and yet Nintendo are not only publishing the soon to be released sequel but have also funded it......
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Re: How Video Games Changed The World

Post by r0jaws » Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:24 am

crusto wrote:I can't understand why people take exception to games like MK. I could understand if games were made where the protagonist goes round battering kids or doing stuff even more unthinkable which I wouldn't type.....
It's only a matter of time before that content will be available somewhere, as a game. It's the logical conclusion of this argument.

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Re: How Video Games Changed The World

Post by merman » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:40 am

Well, finally got round to watching Indie Game:The Movie...

Two things.

I now understand Phil Fish's public meltdown over the patch/Fez 2. I don't condone it, but when you've had four years of online abuse from people who had not even played the game telling him he sucked (and worse), you can see how it would get to you. I was also unaware of the legal stuff, which is a whole layer of pain for him.

The other was the moment when Edmund McMillen's girlfriend Danielle cried at the online reviews. That quote - she was so happy that someone GOT what Edmund was trying to do with the game after putting so much into it - really sums up what indie game creation is all about.
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Sel Feena
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Re: How Video Games Changed The World

Post by Sel Feena » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:15 am

killbot wrote:The MK9 clip was... vile. Really, really vile. You have to say, any publisher who lets content like that onto shop shelves is really irresponsible.

Those publishers who take a sensible view of what they are putting out should be leaning on those who don't. The industry needs to start dragging itself out of the gutter or stop moaning about not being taken seriously. The time of trying to have their cake and eat is is over.
Could not disagree more. MK9 is hilariously OTT in its ultraviolent bad taste. And there are rating systems for games in place. If parents are feckless and disinterested enough to just get little Johnny anything, then they are horrendously poor parents. The argument about being taken seriously is also a little silly IMHO - does everyone look down on cinema as a medium because of films like Human Centipede? I should hope not.

There's a difference between demanding to be taken seriously, and becoming so po-faced you intentionally stifle and limit what gets put out.
Joey wrote:The last thing this industry needs is creativeness being strangled and heavy censorship. You have your child friendly games at one end of the spectrum, your Mortal Kombats at the other and everything else in between. It can all live together quite happily with users selecting what is suitable for them.
^ Exactly.
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Re: How Video Games Changed The World

Post by lanky316 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:14 am

Matt_B wrote:
quantum wrote:>> There's plenty of room for games like this in the market and I'd hate
>> to see them removed because of a few prudes.

Prude? I hope you didn't find anything sexual in that MK clip...
but on the other hand I wouldn't say that there are totally no sexual connotations to a helpless woman being sliced in half by being dragged across a spinning blade from the groin up.
Of course, a piece of a selective edit can always make things look much worse. The insinuation that "look, they have people chainsawing women in half from their lady garden up!" is as far as it goes with this, and it certainly looks ott brutal but it's not as if it's a move there to show the evil feminists what happens to them and put them in their place. He can do exactly the same to a male character, it really is as simple as "this guys hat has a razor blade, what suitable over the top finishing move can he have?, let's cut them in half with it!". A two minute internet search tells me that the one we saw is a hidden finishing move unlocked by spending coins (I'm sure you could do it before if you know the code) and the default fatality involves throwing said chainsaw hat like a boomerang to decapitate opponent before cutting him in half, this time top to bottom.

The clip did exactly what it was supposed to do, some games push violence a long way with over the top blood and gore, let''s find a particularly over the top one from the latest in a series most viewers will remember causing a lot of controversy "back in the day".
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Re: How Video Games Changed The World

Post by Matt_B » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:06 am

Here's what Brooker himself had to say on the matter:
There are things that would be utterly unacceptable in any other media. I looked at a scene from Mortal Kombat 9 with a woman being vertically sawn in half on a buzz saw as she screams. I look at that and think 'that is so horrifying'. I have to remind myself that if I was 23 and I was playing this game with a bunch of friends, that would probably be hilarious. It's the context - what you're doing in that game is killing your friends in an over-the-top way. It's all a sort of joke. But at the same time, it is incredibly graphic footage of a woman being sawn in half by a buzz saw.

I think that because games tend to fly under the cultural radar they're often not really called upon to justify themselves and so consequently they often don't even try. They just throw things in which are very troubling and which don't help the image of games as a whole. When we used that clip from Mortal Kombat it caused more debate than anything else in the programme: the lawyer flagged it up, the channel flagged it up… We had to have a whole discussion on whether we showed it or not. In a television programme you'd have to have a very good reason to show that, but in a video game you may see that happen 25 times in a night.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2 ... television

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Re: How Video Games Changed The World

Post by lanky316 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:56 am

So yes, in his own words. They went and found something particularly over the top and graphic in order to make a point and raise discussion.

It doesn't take a lot of thought to see that's what they were doing, the fact he says "in a video game you MAY see that 25 times in a night" tells you that. Yeah, I MAY but it takes going out of my way to make it happen. I decided to play test myself, I borrowed a friends copy and gave it to my brother, with very little interest in MK to play for 4 hours. During his evening the AI used only 3/4 fatalities on him and it took him a while to discover that by pressing start it let you see special moves. With time, I'm sure he'll have his favourite fighters and he'd start using more fatalities (if he wasn't too focussed on "I've got you you bugger *punch punch punch~* oh I've won") and use the graveyard to unlock more things for them (does anyone know if this is random or the same on every copy so I could learn "groinal chainsaw massacre" for the guy with the hat by going to grave 7B?) but at the moment it's somewhat shy of what the implication is if your only knowledge of the game is via this clip.

Yes I understand the point that some games can push the envelope - perhaps further than some are comfortable with - but this IS the same as other visual mediums. Does Game of Thrones NEED to show bloke hacking a horses head off and multiple sex scenes in seemingly every episode, some of them stupidly long. It doesn't REALLY need to (the books are pretty graphic and contain plenty of sex and violence BUT a lot of the scenes are made purely for the sake of putting in a sex scene for the TV audience) but it's there, the difference is if I sit down and watch a Game of Thrones box set I WILL during the course of my evening see plenty of sex, violence and violent sex. If I choose to play Mortal Kombat I may see a woman vertically chainsawed in half. IF I really go out of my way to make it happen, and if I'm doing that, I have bigger issues than violent scenes in video games.
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