What games have dated poorly?

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rossi46
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Re: What games have dated poorly?

Post by rossi46 » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:35 am

snowkatt wrote:
rossi46 wrote:What I don't get is that these games look exactly the same as they always did.

I think it's the players that have aged badly.
bullshit imflammatory remark that
Tongue in cheek it may have been, but there's a deeper point. The graphics haven't changed but expectations of what a game looks like as a way of determining how good it is, surely goes against everything that being a retro gamer is about, no?

Good graphics equals good game now?
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Re: What games have dated poorly?

Post by gman72 » Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:39 am

snowkatt wrote:
rossi46 wrote:What I don't get is that these games look exactly the same as they always did.

I think it's the players that have aged badly.
bullshit imflammatory remark that
No it wasn't its absolutely bang on. No swearing BTW
As a retro gamer you should be able to appreciate the way things used to look. Especially you, Snowkatt, that hates virtually every new game in existence (that isn't some obscure PC strategy game)
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Re: What games have dated poorly?

Post by Get_in_Gear » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:09 am

This all seems very cosmetic.

The original, top-down GTA obviously looks dated - but it is still loads of fun to play... that is an example of a game that has aged well, IMHO, whereas some of its "better looking" sequels, I can't see myself returning to time and time again.
On the other hand, Donkey Kong Country - was all the rage at the time - but I find it a pretty drab gaming experience whenever I fire it up these days.
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Re: What games have dated poorly?

Post by Shinobi » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:40 pm

Almost every 3d PS1 game has dated poorly end off... Tekken, Final Fantasy and Street Fighter EX being the exceptions.. Lot of other stuff like the Resident Evil and Star Gladiator looks miles better on other consoles hardware

Even a lot of PS2 3d has aged badly such as Shinobi and Kunochi/Nightshade not so much graphically but the controls and camera angles make them almost unplayable
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Re: What games have dated poorly?

Post by Megamixer » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:50 pm

BARK-MAN wrote:Pro Evo on PS1. I loved them game in the day but when I recently dusted off the playstation for a go it was terrible. The graphics looked so bad I thought the playstation was broken
Goalstorm or ISS? I'll agree that Goalstorm (the very first Pro Evo game) looks horrendous now but it still plays well.

Loads of early 3D games look like crap now but it's all relative. Final Fantasy VIII is a really primitive attempt at detailed 3D in my eyes but it's still my favourite game of all-time because since it's the same game as it was back in the late 90's plus the gameplay is excellent. Same for Tekken 2: the characters all look blocky as hell but nothing had changed.

If anything, the soundtracks and gameplay in older games has a better chance to shine these days since we're no longer purely wowed by the (then) shiny, new graphics.
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Re: What games have dated poorly?

Post by Misery » Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:17 pm

gman72 wrote:
snowkatt wrote:
rossi46 wrote:What I don't get is that these games look exactly the same as they always did.

I think it's the players that have aged badly.
bullshit imflammatory remark that
No it wasn't its absolutely bang on. No swearing BTW
As a retro gamer you should be able to appreciate the way things used to look. Especially you, Snowkatt, that hates virtually every new game in existence (that isn't some obscure PC strategy game)

Feh, you have to have actually LIKED the way they looked when it actually was that time, though.

Me, I thought most things on the PSX were ugly as heck even back during it's time. All those jagged, badly rendered giant polygons of doom running around in jumbled little heaps on badly made flat backgrounds.... ugh. Yeah, that sums up that console for me.

I'd like to say something like "I can think of only one game that was good looking, and that was:" but.... no, I dont have even one.

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Re: What games have dated poorly?

Post by Prof Mango B Coconut » Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:35 pm

Misery wrote:Feh, you have to have actually LIKED the way they looked when it actually was that time, though.

Me, I thought most things on the PSX were ugly as heck even back during it's time. All those jagged, badly rendered giant polygons of doom running around in jumbled little heaps on badly made flat backgrounds.... ugh. Yeah, that sums up that console for me.

I'd like to say something like "I can think of only one game that was good looking, and that was:" but.... no, I dont have even one.
I thought many PSX games looked great back in the day. It was all to do with what you could compare them to, and up until that point there wasn't much that *could* compare. Not previous systems, not contemporary systems and often not even the arcade. PSX grabbed the Zeitgeist, shook it by its ankles and delivered.

It's all very well retro-fitting modern views on the system. The truth is, no matter how basic it looks now, it was positively futuristic back then.
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Re: What games have dated poorly?

Post by Misery » Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:26 pm

Prof Mango B Coconut wrote:
Misery wrote:Feh, you have to have actually LIKED the way they looked when it actually was that time, though.

Me, I thought most things on the PSX were ugly as heck even back during it's time. All those jagged, badly rendered giant polygons of doom running around in jumbled little heaps on badly made flat backgrounds.... ugh. Yeah, that sums up that console for me.

I'd like to say something like "I can think of only one game that was good looking, and that was:" but.... no, I dont have even one.
I thought many PSX games looked great back in the day. It was all to do with what you could compare them to, and up until that point there wasn't much that *could* compare. Not previous systems, not contemporary systems and often not even the arcade. PSX grabbed the Zeitgeist, shook it by its ankles and delivered.

It's all very well retro-fitting modern views on the system. The truth is, no matter how basic it looks now, it was positively futuristic back then.
Ehh, I think my problem with it was that developers so very often tried to jam 3D-ness into places where it really shouldnt go, or use it in ways that the console literally could not fully do. Like the bit with the RPGs; you go back to something like FF6 on the SNES, the graphics were bright, clear, with easily defined everything at all times. Then you go look at one on the PSX.... the backgrounds were usually the best part, yet even then often had a bizarre "fuzzy" quality to them, and the actual characters and such.... heck if I could even make out what they WERE half the time as the thing just hadnt the resolution to do that sort of view at all. It wasnt just RPGs of course either, though those seem to be usually the worst offenders.

Not that the other consoles around that time were all that great either. I had an N64 as well, and of course with that thing..... fog.... fog everywhere....

I dunno. I think that generation rates as the most underwhelming for me. I never built up much of a collection for either of those and ended up selling all of it as both rarely got used as time went on. Havent missed either for a second.

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Re: What games have dated poorly?

Post by Prof Mango B Coconut » Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:44 pm

Misery wrote:Ehh, I think my problem with it was that developers so very often tried to jam 3D-ness into places where it really shouldnt go, or use it in ways that the console literally could not fully do. Like the bit with the RPGs; you go back to something like FF6 on the SNES, the graphics were bright, clear, with easily defined everything at all times. Then you go look at one on the PSX.... the backgrounds were usually the best part, yet even then often had a bizarre "fuzzy" quality to them, and the actual characters and such.... heck if I could even make out what they WERE half the time as the thing just hadnt the resolution to do that sort of view at all. It wasnt just RPGs of course either, though those seem to be usually the worst offenders.
I don't buy this. FFVII looked great from the get go. At no point did I ever get confused as to what I was looking at; the graphics were not as poor as you suggest. In fact the graphics were some of the best we'd ever seen on a home console!
Misery wrote: I dunno. I think that generation rates as the most underwhelming for me. I never built up much of a collection for either of those and ended up selling all of it as both rarely got used as time went on. Havent missed either for a second.
But for me, it was one of the most overwhelming. Suddenly we had games, that were previously the domain of expensive arcade systems, in our homes for £30! When the N64 came out, it proved you could get expensive workstation graphics ($5000+) in your home at a cost I never imagined (at the time) possible.

Like I said, this stuff was futuristic at the time.
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Re: What games have dated poorly?

Post by crusto » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:13 pm

I downloaded shining force earlier for the ipad. The core game is still great, but the item management system is dreadful by today's standards, only buying one medical herb at a time is very,er, time consuming! Likewise, when opening chests if your 3 item inventory is full then your main character simply abandons the item. Until you either drop something or give it to another party member. It's all very tedious by today's standards. I can't believe it didn't bother me at the time if I'm honest.
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Re: What games have dated poorly?

Post by Misery » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:29 am

Prof Mango B Coconut wrote:
Misery wrote:Ehh, I think my problem with it was that developers so very often tried to jam 3D-ness into places where it really shouldnt go, or use it in ways that the console literally could not fully do. Like the bit with the RPGs; you go back to something like FF6 on the SNES, the graphics were bright, clear, with easily defined everything at all times. Then you go look at one on the PSX.... the backgrounds were usually the best part, yet even then often had a bizarre "fuzzy" quality to them, and the actual characters and such.... heck if I could even make out what they WERE half the time as the thing just hadnt the resolution to do that sort of view at all. It wasnt just RPGs of course either, though those seem to be usually the worst offenders.
I don't buy this. FFVII looked great from the get go. At no point did I ever get confused as to what I was looking at; the graphics were not as poor as you suggest. In fact the graphics were some of the best we'd ever seen on a home console!
Misery wrote: I dunno. I think that generation rates as the most underwhelming for me. I never built up much of a collection for either of those and ended up selling all of it as both rarely got used as time went on. Havent missed either for a second.
But for me, it was one of the most overwhelming. Suddenly we had games, that were previously the domain of expensive arcade systems, in our homes for £30! When the N64 came out, it proved you could get expensive workstation graphics ($5000+) in your home at a cost I never imagined (at the time) possible.

Like I said, this stuff was futuristic at the time.
Haha, difference of opinion, I think.

I actually thought FF7 was kinda ugly on the PSX. During the actual BATTLES, it wasnt too bad. Things were usually zoomed in enough. ....but that was it.

Of course, it's worth mentioning that part of this is due to the same issue I often have with console graphics: They simply cannot match a high-end PC. I had played the PSX version, sure.... but I'd also played the PC version that was released for Windows, in all of it's sharp, anti-aliased glory. Which was something I'd kinda already been used to at the time as I've always tended to have high-end machines. The PSX and N64 didnt even come close to comparing. ....of course the downside is the monstrous price of such a thing. And having to deal with Windows :wink:

Though, even compared to the graphics of other consoles at the time, hmmm. The PSX just never sat well with me. I loved the way the NES and SNES and Genesis looked, and the following generation of the PS2 and such looked pretty nice for what they were. But the PSX.... damn thing always bugged me. It's really the only console that ever has.

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Re: What games have dated poorly?

Post by gman72 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:30 am

I would agree that some of the Saturn/PSX 3D stuff has not dated well against todays standards... but of course it hasn't. It was emerging tech, the polygon was a pioneering graphical style on those machines at that time at obviously it has been bettered several times since then and despite what anyone says at that time when it was amazing, new tech those games looked bloody fantastic. I can personally see through the fact that the old 3D games look dated when compared to the super crisp textures and silky smooth 3D graphics of modern consoles because surely that is what being a retro gamer is all about. Doom, Final Fantasy and Tombraider etc are absolutely fantastic games. Every inch as good now as they were then. Ive said this before on this forum but retro fitting modern standards on retro consoles and marking their performance down because of these imposed standards is ridiculous in the extreme and people that do so are inadvertently admitting that they prefer modern games over retro games.
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Re: What games have dated poorly?

Post by Nemesis » Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:07 am

gman72 wrote:I would agree that some of the Saturn/PSX 3D stuff has not dated well against todays standards... but of course it hasn't. It was emerging tech, the polygon was a pioneering graphical style on those machines at that time at obviously it has been bettered several times since then and despite what anyone says at that time when it was amazing, new tech those games looked bloody fantastic. I can personally see through the fact that the old 3D games look dated when compared to the super crisp textures and silky smooth 3D graphics of modern consoles because surely that is what being a retro gamer is all about. Doom, Final Fantasy and Tombraider etc are absolutely fantastic games. Every inch as good now as they were then. Ive said this before on this forum but retro fitting modern standards on retro consoles and marking their performance down because of these imposed standards is ridiculous in the extreme and people that do so are inadvertently admitting that they prefer modern games over retro games.
Fully agree with everything you've said there. We might as well say that JetPac, Jet Set Willy, Sabre Wulf et al have all dated horribly by modern standards. Battle Arena Toshinden amazed me graphically when it first appeared even if the gameplay was guff. The game hasn't changed but it's never going to compare well visually to SF X Tekken & the like.
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Re: What games have dated poorly?

Post by Misery » Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:38 am

gman72 wrote:I would agree that some of the Saturn/PSX 3D stuff has not dated well against todays standards... but of course it hasn't. It was emerging tech, the polygon was a pioneering graphical style on those machines at that time at obviously it has been bettered several times since then and despite what anyone says at that time when it was amazing, new tech those games looked bloody fantastic. I can personally see through the fact that the old 3D games look dated when compared to the super crisp textures and silky smooth 3D graphics of modern consoles because surely that is what being a retro gamer is all about. Doom, Final Fantasy and Tombraider etc are absolutely fantastic games. Every inch as good now as they were then. Ive said this before on this forum but retro fitting modern standards on retro consoles and marking their performance down because of these imposed standards is ridiculous in the extreme and people that do so are inadvertently admitting that they prefer modern games over retro games.

Oh, I can agree with this.

I wasnt comparing them to today's stuff to begin with though. When I said something looked bad to me.... I meant it looked bad BACK THEN. Like the PC version of FF7 I compared it to.... I dont mean the recently released one on Steam; I've no interest in that and ignored it. I mean the version that came out in '98, I think it was, which was when I played those. Even back then, with no super-advanced machines to compare it to, I still thought it looked cruddy.

As for the actual gameplay.... take it or leave it, really. FF7 wasnt bad but it got a resounding "meh" from me, though that's pretty typical if I play absolutely anything that Square has so much as looked at. I bought 8 later on, which was ok I guess.... though I stopped after the halfway point for reasons I dont remember... and the final one I got was 10 which I just hated. That one's not PSX though.


Hmm, come to think of it I'm not sure there was ANYTHING I actually liked much on that console. I dont think I actually have even one game for it anymore... Same with the 64. I enjoyed THAT thing quite a bit way back when but for some reason after some years had passed the thing never, ever got used again. I've never been sure as to quite why.

Other than those 2 consoles... Hmm, I cant think of any other older consoles/games that my opinion changed on later or something of that nature.

Ahhh, except the original Star Fox. Loved it way back when. But now it just.... bleh. After too many years of dealing with occaisionally bizarre PC game graphics settings the low framerate in that game just irks me too much. Though it was impressive for the SNES to do that whatsoever.

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Re: What games have dated poorly?

Post by gman72 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:29 am

Nemesis wrote:
gman72 wrote:I would agree that some of the Saturn/PSX 3D stuff has not dated well against todays standards... but of course it hasn't. It was emerging tech, the polygon was a pioneering graphical style on those machines at that time at obviously it has been bettered several times since then and despite what anyone says at that time when it was amazing, new tech those games looked bloody fantastic. I can personally see through the fact that the old 3D games look dated when compared to the super crisp textures and silky smooth 3D graphics of modern consoles because surely that is what being a retro gamer is all about. Doom, Final Fantasy and Tombraider etc are absolutely fantastic games. Every inch as good now as they were then. Ive said this before on this forum but retro fitting modern standards on retro consoles and marking their performance down because of these imposed standards is ridiculous in the extreme and people that do so are inadvertently admitting that they prefer modern games over retro games.
Fully agree with everything you've said there. We might as well say that JetPac, Jet Set Willy, Sabre Wulf et al have all dated horribly by modern standards. Battle Arena Toshinden amazed me graphically when it first appeared even if the gameplay was guff. The game hasn't changed but it's never going to compare well visually to SF X Tekken & the like.
Toshinden looked amazing didn't it?
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