Is Online Abuse to Developers going too far?

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Starlight
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Is Online Abuse to Developers going too far?

Post by Starlight » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:16 am

I've been reading articles on Phil Fish and the Bioware CEO (?) lately, how they've left the Gaming Industry due to the abuse they got over their games.

Personally, I believe it's going too far, simply because people in general don't deserve abuse if they change something in their game, or perhaps released a dud.

When it comes to bad game, we have the decision to boycott bad games and go after those who make good games. That's how business works, but abusing a developer who may have got something wrong (or perhaps gets trolled for fun, like Kamiya, is just wrong. Let the guys do their job and decide for yourself if their game doesn't deserve the sales.

What do you guys think?
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DPrinny
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Re: Is Online Abuse to Developers going too far?

Post by DPrinny » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:19 am

Trolls gotta troll...............

Its like the "Welcome to the internet" sign, if you are on Facebook/twitter/forums/any kind of social media you will get them, best bet is to ignore them

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Re: Is Online Abuse to Developers going too far?

Post by flatapex » Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:26 pm

if someone is disgruntled in this day and age they wont pick up a pen and write a disgruntled letter, they will log in to twitter/facebook and start being a keyboard warrier
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killbot
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Re: Is Online Abuse to Developers going too far?

Post by killbot » Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:06 pm

Unfortunately gaming - as a hobby which attracts a disproportionate number of socially awkward adolescent males - will always have this ugly side. All the internet does is allow the minority of idiots a public platform. In my day we moaned about crap games in the playground, now you can abuse the developers directly.
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snesfanboy
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Re: Is Online Abuse to Developers going too far?

Post by snesfanboy » Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:03 am

funded criticism - no
heated discussions - no
saying a game is s**t - no
personal abuses like "i'm going to kill you" or "you better watch out when you're walking on the streets" or someting like that - yes

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Dave300
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Re: Is Online Abuse to Developers going too far?

Post by Dave300 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:14 am

snesfanboy wrote:funded criticism - no
heated discussions - no
saying a game is s**t - no
personal abuses like "i'm going to kill you" or "you better watch out when you're walking on the streets" or someting like that - yes

^ agreed.
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GigaPepsiMan
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Re: Is Online Abuse to Developers going too far?

Post by GigaPepsiMan » Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:56 am

In the case of Phil Fish a lot of the stuff that happened to him was his own doing.

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Re: Is Online Abuse to Developers going too far?

Post by Matt_B » Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:36 am

I've got a lot of sympathy for developers who put their heart and soul into a game, but end up with something that's a bit of a turd. I suspect it's very difficult for them not to take criticism personally, but they should know damn well never to take the bait, as it's just going to get worse.

Phil Fish though, meh. If you're going to respond in kind to the ravings of every keyboard warrior out there, you'd better have a bloody thick skin.

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Starlight
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Re: Is Online Abuse to Developers going too far?

Post by Starlight » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:29 pm

killbot wrote:In my day we moaned about crap games in the playground, now you can abuse the developers directly.
I don't think I ever saw a "bad" game back in the day since they had to make an effort to grab our money as kids. :shock:
GigaPepsiMan wrote:In the case of Phil Fish a lot of the stuff that happened to him was his own doing.
Well yeah, he's a censored who wants his voice heard, but surely these trolls know he made an excellent game? His antics shouldn't be condoned but the dude has talent....it's just sad that he got involved with it all like Kayima does with the whole "Do you eat censored?" tweet he did to some reviewer. :roll:

I always assume these trolls are 16 year old kids with nothing better to do since their lives are "incomplete" without a connection....these parents should slap them and ban them on computers if they start to act like this in the real world...where no one gives a damn about their opinions....but yeah...it's embarrassing when you see trolls in their late 20s, 30s and even 40s doing it...
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Re: Is Online Abuse to Developers going too far?

Post by psj3809 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:48 am

Starlight wrote:
killbot wrote:In my day we moaned about crap games in the playground, now you can abuse the developers directly.
I don't think I ever saw a "bad" game back in the day since they had to make an effort to grab our money as kids. :shock: ..
Seriously? Tons of bad games then. Kids saving up for ages for World Cup carnival, Miami Vice or knight Rider etc. I loved the 8 bit years but there were plenty of turkeys .

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Re: Is Online Abuse to Developers going too far?

Post by RodimusPrime » Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:39 am

psj3809 wrote:
Starlight wrote:
killbot wrote:In my day we moaned about crap games in the playground, now you can abuse the developers directly.
I don't think I ever saw a "bad" game back in the day since they had to make an effort to grab our money as kids. :shock: ..
Seriously? Tons of bad games then. Kids saving up for ages for World Cup carnival, Miami Vice or knight Rider etc. I loved the 8 bit years but there were plenty of turkeys .
I think they must have rose tinted specs on to say something like there was no bad games back then.

As for developer abuse, personal abuse is wrong, but at the same time how many times have we heard over the years developers saying such ythings as.

Games players are idiots for buying big franchises, or how they are too stupid to understand how brilliant such and such game is. What about the whole " people who buy 2nd hand games are thieves and are destroying the industry "

or Develop4ers who just blatently treat customers like idiots and try and fleece them with censored games etc.

it goes both ways.

people online Keep the criticism constructive and stay away from personal comments, but developers should do the same and stop throwing their dummies out when games do not sell well.

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Starlight
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Re: Is Online Abuse to Developers going too far?

Post by Starlight » Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:25 pm

psj3809 wrote: Seriously? Tons of bad games then. Kids saving up for ages for World Cup carnival, Miami Vice or knight Rider etc. I loved the 8 bit years but there were plenty of turkeys .
I understand that there were bad games back then, but I never seemed to have bought a particularly bad game...although I am not a fan of the Ecco games myself for being so difficult!

I avoided the Superman 64s, the Busby games and a few duds from LJN, so I guess I was lucky to have only went for the popular games like Sonic, Crash and Metal Gear Solid. : :lol:

I never really read any reviews back then either...and just stuck to what friends recommended (which usually worked out for me), but when I became self aware that I could make my own assumptions on games, I noticed a few other franchises I would otherwise refused to have touched, such as Wind Waker, Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, Final Fantasy X and Pokemon.
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Re: Is Online Abuse to Developers going too far?

Post by Misery » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:29 am

GigaPepsiMan wrote:In the case of Phil Fish a lot of the stuff that happened to him was his own doing.

Aye, this.

At the same time though.... to be honest, I have little, if any, sympathy for the developers going through this one.

The reasoning is very, very, VERY simple: This is the bloody internet. The internet is made of crazy, trolls, and crazy trolls. AND, this is the gaming industry, and gamers as a whole can be an angry, jackassy bunch. If you are going to put out a game.... be it a small one, or a huge one with a giant budget of doom, you have to not only be ready to handle things like this, you have to EXPECT IT. Because there WILL be trolls, and there WILL be people that hate your game, and there WILL be people that hate you for making it. These are simple facts, and anyone that's been on the Net much should already have these facts burned into their minds. It doesnt matter the size of your development team, either, or the popularity of your team/company/game, or any of that. I deal with indie devs pretty often myself, and I've watched even the very small, one-man-making-an-obscure-game sort get trolltastic, evil messages of the sort that should be grounds to banish the troll to Jupiter. It seriously happens to ALOT of developers.

Secondly, you have to understand that many hateful comments often arent actual players that are discontent with your product, but are instead often trolls just looking to get a rise out of you, who may not have even once tried your game (or in some cases, may not have even HEARD of it). They're not posting to vent, they're not posting to tell you what they think, they're not giving you an opinion: They *only* want to anger you and bother you and drive you crazy. This is another simple fact. And when the criticism is real.... you have to be ready to deal with that as well.

And finally.... if you're that thin-skinned that these things are going to bother you SO VERY MUCH that you just outright quit, then honestly, you have no business putting out a product like this, particularly when you're so connected to the Net in various ways. You HAVE to be able to take this crap and let it bounce offa you. Even when it gets really nasty. Because this kinda crap happens to alot of developers, and it also happens to alot of people totally outside of the gaming industry. But the reason those guys, whoever they may be, can become successful is that they simply ignore the trolls, and let the rest of it just roll over them and pass them by, and they just keep going.

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Re: Is Online Abuse to Developers going too far?

Post by Prof Mango B Coconut » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:36 am

I don't think it helps that ego/vanity sites like Twitter are completely useless for communicating in any meaningful way. If you truly wanted feedback on a product or whatever you'd invite people to engage with you on your own website in a controlled environment. Instead what seems to happen is folks embrace the cult of celebrity, start posting twaddle on a regular basis and expect a huge base of semi-anonymous "fans" to give them a virtual pat on the back, thus inflating egos further. All well and good, until the old tribal instinct kicks in and one "celebrity" turns on another.

Shame about Fez 2. Still, I reckon the sun will still rise in the east and set in the west without it.
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Re: Is Online Abuse to Developers going too far?

Post by RodimusPrime » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:09 am

Prof Mango B Coconut wrote:I don't think it helps that ego/vanity sites like Twitter are completely useless for communicating in any meaningful way. If you truly wanted feedback on a product or whatever you'd invite people to engage with you on your own website in a controlled environment. Instead what seems to happen is folks embrace the cult of celebrity, start posting twaddle on a regular basis and expect a huge base of semi-anonymous "fans" to give them a virtual pat on the back, thus inflating egos further. All well and good, until the old tribal instinct kicks in and one "celebrity" turns on another.

Shame about Fez 2. Still, I reckon the sun will still rise in the east and set in the west without it.

This. its nothing specific to developers, its just an unfortunate side effect of giving people a voive that can be heard by millions combined with anonymity turns people into the type of people we see today on the internet.

they say things that they would never normally say, and find delight in constantly harrassing others, especially public figures. Probably a large percentage of people giving developers grief have sensed any easy target and just joind in without ever playing the games.

Some are just blatently out to shock peole and start saying things about family etc.

If you had a controlled enviroment for feedback, it would attract mainly genuine customers and cut out a large percentage of the trolls.

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