No future for F-Zero?

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Joey
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Re: No future for F-Zero?

Post by Joey » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:13 am

Matt_B wrote:
Joey wrote:
Matt_B wrote:I think people have completely unrealistic expectations from Nintendo here.
Sorry mate I just dont agree. If an F-Zero/StarFox console game had come out in the last few years and massively flopped then you'd be onto something.

However... 10 years and 2 consoles on (in the case of F-Zero) and 15 years and 3 consoles on (in the case of Star Fox) I don't think at all anyone can say its unrealistic to expect that now is the time, more than any, to have a good crack at this IP, break the cycle and take a f-ing chance!
I can forgive you for missing it, but a Star Fox game did come out for the 3DS a couple of years back and sold a whopping 720,000 copies. OK, it was a re-make of an older game, but even so those numbers aren't exactly encouraging, are they? at least not compared to the multi-million figures of Mario, Zelda, Animal Crossing and the like.
After I'd posted I did consider editing it to highlight I was talking about a brand new (not a remake/HD version etc.) home console game.

As you say though the 3DS StarFox is just a remake (which I have played) so it's not really fair to use that as an example over a brand new original game in the franchise. That's like Kojima saying he's not going to make MGS 5 on the basis that the MGS HD collection didn't sell millions... they are not the same thing.

Again, in those many years Nintendo could have retired anyone of its IP's to have a bash at one of these games. If they hadn't taken a chance with Nintendogs then they wouldn't have known it would sell that many units. The same applies to any franchise.

When it comes down to it all I'm basically trying to say is that if 15 years and 3 consoles down the line isn't the right time, when is?
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Re: No future for F-Zero?

Post by Matt_B » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:15 am

Joey wrote:After I'd posted I did consider editing it to highlight I was talking about a brand new (not a remake/HD version etc.) home console game.

As you say though the 3DS StarFox is just a remake (which I have played) so it's not really fair to use that as an example over a brand new original game in the franchise. That's like Kojima saying he's not going to make MGS 5 on the basis that the MGS HD collection didn't sell millions... they are not the same thing.
The difference is that MGS5 will have been commissioned on the basis of the sales of MGS4, and the spin-offs and re-makes are an irrelevance. Should that series eventually hit the point where none of the games are selling enough to cover their production costs, it'll likely vanish never to be seen again. That's how the business works, and Star Fox hit that point long ago.

As such, the onus was on the re-make to sell in the sort of quantities that could boot-strap the series back into action, and it fell well short of that, so it's back to dormancy once more.
Again, in those many years Nintendo could have retired anyone of its IP's to have a bash at one of these games. If they hadn't taken a chance with Nintendogs then they wouldn't have known it would sell that many units. The same applies to any franchise.
Sure, Nintendo have to take chances once in a while. And, amongst the usual ongoing favourites, they do throw in some new series, some rather more cult fare, and the occasional resurrection. However, with so many old games - they could probably spend a couple of decades just making sequels to the titles that haven't had one since the NES days - your chances of anything in particular coming up are slim.
When it comes down to it all I'm basically trying to say is that if 15 years and 3 consoles down the line isn't the right time, when is?
You're not going to like it, and this will probably go down as blasphemy on the forums of RG, but the right time is most likely never. That's the harsh, but honest, truth as I see it. I only say that in the knowledge that the same fate has already befallen most of my favourite games over the years; they've had their day, and the eventual failure to produce financially successful sequels is what has killed them off. The games industry has a very short memory too, for which classic status means little.

That's not to say that dead franchises don't ever get brought back, but it's a very rare thing. And it's rarer still that they lead to a commercial or critical hit. I was overjoyed when X-Com returned last year in a form that actually does justice to the original game, but that's just one small exception to a rule that generally holds very well. And its sales haven't exactly been stellar either.

I'd very much like for Nintendo to prove me wrong here, and announce something so you can all go "told you so" at me, but I see no reason to be particularly optimistic.

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Re: No future for F-Zero?

Post by r0jaws » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:47 am

Alien Breed was a reasonably successful remake of the classic franchise, but I suppose it's a question of scale.
It seems that the modern games market is thriving, and there are no shortage of games that old franchises would have to compete against. Many classic platformers and racers probably have stiffer competition now than they ever have had, so I suppose Nintendo would probably hedge their bets against diverting resources into a potential weaker game that would compete against their own major titles.
Mario Kart has some serious competition with Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed, and if Sega and Sumo Digital can keep up the pace, then it could be tough times for MK.

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Re: No future for F-Zero?

Post by Megamixer » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:48 pm

killbot wrote:As for Wace Race... well, the original Game Boy game was nothing to write home about and a lot of people were disappointed with Blue Storm. The N64 game is the only one that's ever really had a great reputation. Maybe that was a one-off and the franchise is better off fadimg away.
Wave Race on the GB is a wicked little game and satisfying to master.
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Re: No future for F-Zero?

Post by Rayne » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:51 pm

F-Zero X is one of my fave racers and F-Zero AX is hands-down my face arcade game. I'd kill for another entry to the series.

There was a recent interview with Iwata & Reggie on IGN where they stated (with no room for mis-interpretation) that they did not trust third party developers with their franchises (Retro being an exception of course) and were actively trying to move away from outsourcing. With that stance in mind there's no way for them to cater to their vast catalogue of IP and it'd be madness for them to NOT develop another New Super Mario Bros in favour of a riskier IP like F-Zero or Star Fox.

I know SEGA did the GC version of F-Zero and I heard it was really good. Maybe somewhere down the line they'll see sense..
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Re: No future for F-Zero?

Post by Megamixer » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:54 pm

Rayne wrote:I know SEGA did the GC version of F-Zero and I heard it was really good. Maybe somewhere down the line they'll see sense..
It was more than good; it was blistering! Namco also had a big hand in Starfox Assault on the Gamecube which I really enjoyed. Third parties are good but need to be chosen selectively. Picking a developer who has only ever made average titles or nothing of note will obviously be a huge risk. People like Sega, Namco, Capcom etc. are winners and Nintendo would still have a large supervising role to prevent any critical mistakes anyway.
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Re: No future for F-Zero?

Post by Rayne » Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:35 pm

Totally agree with you with the exception of Starfox Assault - that game was absolutely shocking.
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Re: No future for F-Zero?

Post by Megamixer » Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:36 pm

Rayne wrote:Totally agree with you with the exception of Starfox Assault - that game was absolutely shocking.
I'll admit that the on-foot bits were unnecessary but the Arwing bits were as good as anything from previous games if you ask me.
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Re: No future for F-Zero?

Post by nakamura » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:08 am

Assault was pretty good, on foot was weak but there was still fun to be had.

As for F-Zero, for me it's pretty simple. A follow up to F-Zero X on the 3DS. Keep the same visual style but improve it with all new tracks and all the old tracks as an unlock. With the fairly simple visual style, you could have it at 60fps in certainly 2D or even 3D with all 30 craft on screen.

Can't be that expensive to make surely?
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Re: No future for F-Zero?

Post by Megamixer » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:36 pm

nakamura wrote:As for F-Zero, for me it's pretty simple. A follow up to F-Zero X on the 3DS. Keep the same visual style but improve it with all new tracks and all the old tracks as an unlock. With the fairly simple visual style, you could have it at 60fps in certainly 2D or even 3D with all 30 craft on screen.

Can't be that expensive to make surely?
I'd rather have it on a big screen than a portable to be honest but that's just my preference. F-Zero X is indeed a brilliant game but GX was just handled so well by the Nintendo/Sega team-up that it is my personal benchmark for what a new game needs to beat :)
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Re: No future for F-Zero?

Post by nakamura » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:10 pm

I liked GX but it feels more like a tech demo than a game at times. I found the handling a bit lacking compared to GX and the craft had no real engine noise which bugs me. However I know that many love it and would gladly take a new one.
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Re: No future for F-Zero?

Post by Megamixer » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:13 pm

One thing I missed from X is that robot guy on the monitor who does the countdown and that neat little sound effect when he says "Go!". It's hard to explain as it's probably so insignificant.
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Re: No future for F-Zero?

Post by nakamura » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:14 pm

The little things make a difference. I like the more slidey feel of X and the craft noise. :D
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Re: No future for F-Zero?

Post by killbot » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:51 pm

Just to point out amid all this doom and gloom - no Nintendo franchise ever really dies. The last few years have seen Punch Out!! and Kid Icarus dragged back to life and Nintendo Land featured homages to Balloon Fight and the Octopus G&W of all things. So just because a few years have passed without a new entry in a particular series doesn't mean it's forgotten. Even if it comes back in 20 years, it will come back.
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Re: No future for F-Zero?

Post by Rayne » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:53 pm

killbot wrote:Just to point out amid all this doom and gloom - no Nintendo franchise ever really dies. The last few years have seen Punch Out!! and Kid Icarus dragged back to life and Nintendo Land featured homages to Balloon Fight and the Octopus G&W of all things. So just because a few years have passed without a new entry in a particular series doesn't mean it's forgotten. Even if it comes back in 20 years, it will come back.
In fairness Miyamoto himself said the reason he hadn't re-visited the franchise was because he couldn't think of anything new to add to it. Maybe there'll come a day :)
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