The XBOX ONE / PS4 discussion thread

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Ferret Oxide
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Re: Xbox One/PS4 discussion thread.

Post by Ferret Oxide » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:58 am

I still say the 24 hours online check thing is going to bite people in the behinds. When MS eventually launch the successor, they will shut down the servers at some point. Like they did with the original xbox live. Once they do that, there will be nothing for the console to connect to so you wont be anle to play, even offline.

For MS this is a great way of pushing people to adopt the next platform. For xbone owners, it's a very expensive plastic brick and a collection of games you can't play.

Sure, that doesn't matter for the next decade perhaps, but if you ever fancy going back to an old xbone game in 20 years time, tough, you can't.

Of course, they might keep the servers running, or relrase a patch so the 24 hour check is no longer needed, but why would they? They dont want people to play on the older generations beyond a certain point.

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Re: Xbox One/PS4 discussion thread.

Post by gman72 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:03 am

Well they are far from cutting 360 support dead once Xbox one is out. So there is no real reason to believe that they will be doing what you suspect in 10 years time. Besides a patch or update for offline play will happen way before then IMO. :D
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Ferret Oxide
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Re: Xbox One/PS4 discussion thread.

Post by Ferret Oxide » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:11 am

I hope you're right. I am just voicing my concerns.

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Re: Xbox One/PS4 discussion thread.

Post by gman72 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:24 am

Absolutely. I can tell that this would be a worry. Alienating a potential payroll with decisions like DRM and 24hour check in is brave. Cutting off an established user base dead in the water is certain business suicide. You don't need to be Alan Sugar to work that one out. :wink:
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Re: Xbox One/PS4 discussion thread.

Post by FatTrucker » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:25 am

Longevity isn't the major issue. Nothing is forever, even physical media will decay to the point of destruction, already a lot of tape and floppy based media is dying. Digital 'ownership', and subs based access to librarys of films, music and games will be ultimately where it will end up. Ownership will become retro as a concept. Its an inevitable and incontrovertible fact for all forms of media.

The tech is a secondary concern, as with all systems its the games and creativity shown by developers that define and ultimately determine the success and viability of a machine.

There's a great deal to speculate about with the upcoming gen, and particularly with the direction M$ seem to be going.

The single biggest issue is what they do with the market. The upcoming gen marks a step change in the way games are sold and owned on consoles. The digital marketplace is everywhere, and in an open and massively competetive market its generally been nothing but good for consumers and gamers. The console arena is slightly different, effectively controlled by a couple of corporations, its a closed shop unlike any other online media.
Wether you own one or both machines, the future for consoles will be digital before the end of the next gen, exclusives aside your only real choice in the matter will be the terms under which you want your gaming regulated, currently Sony's machine is looking less invasive, and more developer friendly. A more open platform still offering a degree of flexibility to its developers, publishers and end users. As a result currently its my pick for the next gen.
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Re: Xbox One/PS4 discussion thread.

Post by The Beans » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:29 am

The 24hr online check-in is needed to enable the secondhand sale and exchanging of digital content without compromising the system to rampant piracy.
That's the true innovation, keeping the pre-owned market in place for a digital platform.

Whether the restrictions it brings becomes worth it remains to be seen. Whatever happens it will always be a negative aspect of the system for some since it eliminates them entirely from using the product.
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Re: Xbox One/PS4 discussion thread.

Post by FatTrucker » Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:28 pm

I can also understand the desire to just enthuse about the games without any pretensions toward brand loyalty or purely speculative consequences, but as gamers there's actually a great deal at stake here. The way in which we collectively respond and engage with the various marketing models being offered by the next gen will have repercussions far beyond the consoles lifespan. Establishing a precendent for what is and isn't commercially acceptable now will ultimately determine the level of value, and flexibility we get from publishers and console manufacturers for the duration of the online marketplace. Its not really about innovation but radical market evolution and we as consumers will bear a large amount of responsibility for the shape it eventually takes.
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Re: Xbox One/PS4 discussion thread.

Post by slacey1070 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:42 pm

FatTrucker wrote:I can also understand the desire to just enthuse about the games without any pretensions toward brand loyalty or purely speculative consequences, but as gamers there's actually a great deal at stake here. The way in which we collectively respond and engage with the various marketing models being offered by the next gen will have repercussions far beyond the consoles lifespan. Establishing a precendent for what is and isn't commercially acceptable now will ultimately determine the level of value, and flexibility we get from publishers and console manufacturers for the duration of the online marketplace. Its not really about innovation but radical market evolution and we as consumers will bear a large amount of responsibility for the shape it eventually takes.
I agree completely....

I don't see the "pre owned" market as innovation in any case. And MS are now lobbing this over to the publishers in any case, neatly washing their hands of it.

I suspect a number of MS execs will have had sleepless nights this weekend. Sony really did put them on the back foot... Although I fear that might at least partly be down to half or missing information.
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Re: Xbox One/PS4 discussion thread.

Post by Nemesis » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:02 pm

gman72 wrote: TBH, Nemesis, your reaction there to what are quite simply obvious facts is typical of what has plagued this thread from a few users since its inception. You threaten thread escalation because I state facts and that is simply an unfair and unmeasured reaction that I simply don't understand.
I never threatened thread escalation. I just said that comments like that can encourage thread escalation because it comes across as a "know it all attitude" whilst belittling others.

Anyway, enough of that.
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Re: Xbox One/PS4 discussion thread.

Post by englebert3rd » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:14 pm

What's really annoying is that in a decade, the servers will go down and you end up with a brick. Really stupid decision. I hate this idea of the "cloud", I'm not sure if I'm right but apparently you've got half of the game on the disk and the rest is streamed? It's a stupid logic to be honest, and I've got to agree with the people who're saying that Microsoft is anti-consumer now.
I'm passing on the XBone, and joining the PS4 wagon!
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Nemesis
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Re: Xbox One/PS4 discussion thread.

Post by Nemesis » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:25 pm

FatTrucker wrote: Wether you own one or both machines, the future for consoles will be digital before the end of the next gen, exclusives aside your only real choice in the matter will be the terms under which you want your gaming regulated, currently Sony's machine is looking less invasive, and more developer friendly. A more open platform still offering a degree of flexibility to its developers, publishers and end users. As a result currently its my pick for the next gen.
Yeah, I think this is spot on tbh. It's funny when people begin to choose a platform based on how it's regulated instead of what games are being offered. However, no doubt the XB1 & PS4 will share the majority of games which makes it an easier choice. My concern for Microsoft is that they made much progress this gen with the 360 despite certain drawbacks. The original Xbox enabled Microsoft to get their foot in the door. The 360 got them into the video gaming party itself, eating at the head of the table with the established order. Now, with come controversial measures they possibly risk halting their momentum in terms of sales. The US will still be a stronghold for them but I see the UK as a swing voter. Considering most of Europe is pro-Sony anyway that could leave the US as their only stronghold.

Probably more than enough for Microsoft in the long run but still a potential dent in their income. Japan will remain a lost cause however.
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Re: Xbox One/PS4 discussion thread.

Post by theantmeister » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:51 pm

gman72 wrote:Perhaps you expected Microsoft to unveil some new kind of console based on recovered alien technology scrounged from a downed UFO. It's the next progression and its a new console and by definition it is new tech.
I remember a time when consoles weren't just old PCs. Good times, they were.

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Re: Xbox One/PS4 discussion thread.

Post by gman72 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:10 pm

The Beans wrote: That's the true innovation, keeping the pre-owned market in place for a digital platform.
That, sir, is an excellent observation. :D
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Re: Xbox One/PS4 discussion thread.

Post by gman72 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:23 pm

FatTrucker wrote:I can also understand the desire to just enthuse about the games without any pretensions toward brand loyalty or purely speculative consequences, but as gamers there's actually a great deal at stake here.
As usual, sir, you make an excellent and well reasoned point and I completely agree with you.
Unfortunately most gamers can only see the hand in front of their faces and the games held in that hand, and I'm talking about myself here. The changes in the industry 10 years from now are exactly that... 10 years... I might be dead by then.
We both agree that change is inevitable and what I summerise from your points is that we shouldn't let Microsoft dictate the way those changes happen, in this our opinions our divided.
Change has to start somewhere and Microsoft are drawing that line in the sand and saying here it is, let's start here. I absolutely respect them for that... for the very reasons most other people are condemning them. Sony kinda delivered a message halfway between the way things are now and the way they will be once the new gen is established, to me not a clear message, not as clear as Microsoft anyhoo. Sony kinda played it safe to try and appease the public and I think they will change policy in some ways before release - as will Microsoft.
I know I've said it before but change is hard to swallow and it has to start somewhere. It starts with Xbox one and to a watered-down-to-please-the-public extent PS4.
Bring it on. :D
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gman72
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Re: Xbox One/PS4 discussion thread.

Post by gman72 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:25 pm

englebert3rd wrote:What's really annoying is that in a decade, the servers will go down and you end up with a brick. Really stupid decision.
It's great that you have the clairvoyance to get annoyed about a decision that has yet to be made 10 years in advance. What are next weeks Euromillions numbers going to be BTW :wink:
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