Early Mario or Early Sonic

Discuss and discover all the great games of yesteryear!

Moderators: mknott, NickThorpe, lcarlson, Darran@Retro Gamer, MMohammed

User avatar
Grizzly
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:00 pm
Location: Berkshire

Re: Early Mario or Early Sonic

Post by Grizzly » Mon May 06, 2013 12:17 pm

Sonic of course.

The level design is sophisticated and there is more to look at with more variations in theme. Everything had the right balance of realism and fantasy (for the time) an the mechanical levels displayed a sense of menace which later levels of the Mario games could not replicate. Mario seemed more like a nursery mural compared.

The music is always a stand out in the Sonic games as well. Rather than being a simple bobbing tune (which does have its merits) the Sonic music was and certainly feels like they could have been real tangible rock/pop tunes, the limitations of the 4 instrument system on the mega drive really shone out in that regard.

Basically mario felt like a pantomime, something I couldn't take seriously, it felt too childish to be considered epic gaming. It's kiddy style were ever going to win my heart over the Sonic games which were a rock concert.

I have learnt to appreciate the mario games recently but even with the clarity of hindsight I can say with confidence that Sonic was the better game overall.
I write for...
Image
Check us out for news, reviews and features on the blackest of consoles.Image

User avatar
Misery
Posts: 2236
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:52 pm

Re: Early Mario or Early Sonic

Post by Misery » Wed May 08, 2013 6:03 am

Mario for me.


The NES/SNES Mario games are among my all time favorites (dont care about any of them after that), whereas the Sonic games.... well, those dont hold my attention long enough for me to ever go through one, wheras Mario does.


I dunno, I just always found the Sonic games to be boring. Hard to explain why.

User avatar
Pinhead7
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:04 am

Re: Early Mario or Early Sonic

Post by Pinhead7 » Fri May 10, 2013 6:45 am

Difficult as I love them both, but I think I would have to go with Mario as the roots are there for my favourite games. Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. or is that just the nostalgia talking.

flatapex
Posts: 2704
Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 6:30 pm
Contact:

Re: Early Mario or Early Sonic

Post by flatapex » Fri May 10, 2013 6:59 am

Mario 1, 3 and mario world were awesome.

Sonic on master system and mega drive were massively different
Image

psj3809
Posts: 18821
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:28 am

Re: Early Mario or Early Sonic

Post by psj3809 » Fri May 10, 2013 9:10 am

As others have said both games are very different. I much prefer Mario though, Sonic was at times a bit too 'chaotic' ! Mario was to me a classic platformer, might be slower paced but i thought there was much more to do. Both are classic platformers though, quite sad seeing people moan about one or the other.

User avatar
Shinobi
Posts: 7570
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:33 am
Location: The Pride Lands

Re: Early Mario or Early Sonic

Post by Shinobi » Sun May 12, 2013 6:08 pm

nakamura wrote:
Shinobi wrote: Also like Mario 2/Mario USA though a lot of people don't..
That one is my fav NES Mario.
Same here I'm certain one of the Magazine possibly Super Play slated it for being the weak link in the Mario Series.. I'm sure they refered to it as Mario USA and said it was originally a Jap game with Arabian characters replaced with Mario Characters for the USA.. Going through my Super Play Magazines now to check this
"Crush the Old Order and CREATE A NEW SOCIETY!"

User avatar
nakamura
Posts: 7582
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:32 pm
Location: Bournemouth
Contact:

Re: Early Mario or Early Sonic

Post by nakamura » Sun May 12, 2013 7:11 pm

Shinobi wrote:
nakamura wrote:
Shinobi wrote: Also like Mario 2/Mario USA though a lot of people don't..
That one is my fav NES Mario.
Same here I'm certain one of the Magazine possibly Super Play slated it for being the weak link in the Mario Series.. I'm sure they refered to it as Mario USA and said it was originally a Jap game with Arabian characters replaced with Mario Characters for the USA.. Going through my Super Play Magazines now to check this
It's true, was an Arabian game called Doki Doki Panic. Still love it regardless of that.
http://judged-by-gabranth.blogspot.co.uk/
Antiriad2097 wrote:I have a general rule of thumb that if Nakamura likes something, it's not for me ;)

Trickster
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:59 am

Re: Early Mario or Early Sonic

Post by Trickster » Mon May 13, 2013 2:17 am

I didn't have a NES back in the day so I played Sonic first. On Master System and Mega Drive. And I loved it back then.

But I think the early Marios are way better games gameplay-wise.
There are levels in Sonic games where it feels like you only have to push right without looking to complete the stage...

I replayed Sonic 1-3 + Knuckles last year and I didn't have much fun anymore. Much more style over substance.

User avatar
TwoHeadedBoy
Posts: 9028
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:55 am
Location: Liverpool
Contact:

Re: Early Mario or Early Sonic

Post by TwoHeadedBoy » Mon May 13, 2013 7:44 am

Trickster wrote: There are levels in Sonic games where it feels like you only have to push right without looking to complete the stage...
I can understand when people say that about the GBA and DS games, but can't think of a single level in the Mega Drive or Master System games where that can be done.
My comics blog (mostly lesser-known UK stuff from the 80s and 90s)
C=Style wrote:It's always refreshing and nice to see someone such as TwoHeadedBoy who is a SNES hating bastard at the best of times rate a SNES game so highly.

User avatar
Misery
Posts: 2236
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:52 pm

Re: Early Mario or Early Sonic

Post by Misery » Mon May 13, 2013 8:15 am

TwoHeadedBoy wrote:
Trickster wrote: There are levels in Sonic games where it feels like you only have to push right without looking to complete the stage...
I can understand when people say that about the GBA and DS games, but can't think of a single level in the Mega Drive or Master System games where that can be done.
It's not so much that there are entire LEVELS like that, but even just PARTS of a level being like that. Like the "loop" things... even as a kid, I wondered why in the hell those were in there. You ran at them, and just held the direction button until Sonic came out the other end of the thing. And there are LOTS of examples of things like that, even in the earlier games. To me, these add nothing and are one of the reasons why I got bored with the games so fast. For a series that's supposed to be all about speed, it always tested my patience a bit too much with stuff like that.

Trickster
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:59 am

Re: Early Mario or Early Sonic

Post by Trickster » Mon May 13, 2013 2:45 pm

TwoHeadedBoy wrote:
Trickster wrote: There are levels in Sonic games where it feels like you only have to push right without looking to complete the stage...
I can understand when people say that about the GBA and DS games, but can't think of a single level in the Mega Drive or Master System games where that can be done.
Of course I was exaggerating but throw in some random jumps and you will get lucky sometimes.
Green Hill Zone 1 feels that way and in some later stages where you only shoot from tube to tube or loop to loop degrade you to watching much more than playing.

Misery already explained the feeling well.

There are harder levels in these games for sure. But I never had the feeling they were crafted particularly well.
Design and music is great in Sonic games but they very often feel like randomly linked setpieces with a lot of copy and paste.

User avatar
imaxeroker85
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:46 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Early Mario or Early Sonic

Post by imaxeroker85 » Mon May 13, 2013 7:35 pm

I really had no love for either of them in my childhood, so I can look at them with out nostalgia clouding my vision. I found Sonic and Sonic 2, uninteresting, but I can see that the series added a lot more variety to it's games compared to the original Mario games.

I actually just picked up Sonic and Sonic 2 for the Master System for the first time, and i actually think they are two pretty good games, and I think they are better traditional platformers compared to the break neck speed of the MD ports.

Mario, has platforming down to an art, but they series never really took any chances to add any extra gameplay twists, such as Sonic did.
Image

User avatar
Grizzly
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:00 pm
Location: Berkshire

Re: Early Mario or Early Sonic

Post by Grizzly » Mon May 13, 2013 7:41 pm

Trickster wrote:
TwoHeadedBoy wrote:
Trickster wrote: There are levels in Sonic games where it feels like you only have to push right without looking to complete the stage...
I can understand when people say that about the GBA and DS games, but can't think of a single level in the Mega Drive or Master System games where that can be done.
Of course I was exaggerating but throw in some random jumps and you will get lucky sometimes.
Green Hill Zone 1 feels that way and in some later stages where you only shoot from tube to tube or loop to loop degrade you to watching much more than playing.

Misery already explained the feeling well.

There are harder levels in these games for sure. But I never had the feeling they were crafted particularly well.
Design and music is great in Sonic games but they very often feel like randomly linked setpieces with a lot of copy and paste.
It's funny and I don't intend to start a war but I always felt that way about Mario games. I mean the very fact that you cannot go left in the first gives me that feeling of push right to win. Of course the later levels are more difficult but with that barrier constantly behind you it removes something that the sonic games provided and that's the ability to explore.

Sure in Green Hill Zone it's not that important but the game is bigger than that one zone, in the others you have to scope out the best routes to be rewarded with a speedy run through later on.
I write for...
Image
Check us out for news, reviews and features on the blackest of consoles.Image

User avatar
Misery
Posts: 2236
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:52 pm

Re: Early Mario or Early Sonic

Post by Misery » Mon May 13, 2013 8:43 pm

Grizzly wrote:
It's funny and I don't intend to start a war but I always felt that way about Mario games. I mean the very fact that you cannot go left in the first gives me that feeling of push right to win. Of course the later levels are more difficult but with that barrier constantly behind you it removes something that the sonic games provided and that's the ability to explore.

Sure in Green Hill Zone it's not that important but the game is bigger than that one zone, in the others you have to scope out the best routes to be rewarded with a speedy run through later on.

Even as a Mario fan, I can agree with that one. That's the one and only thing that always bugs me a bit when playing the earliest games in the series: There's an utter lack of exploration in them. Now granted, the very first game was very early indeed, and that sort of thing simply hadnt been really done much yet on that console, but still.

Fortunately the series got much better about that as time went along, but yeah, it was "GO RIGHT. KEEP GOING RIGHT. AND THEN GO RIGHT SOME MORE" for quite awhile.

Trickster
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:59 am

Re: Early Mario or Early Sonic

Post by Trickster » Tue May 14, 2013 3:47 am

Yes, you have to consider the time of release of the first Mario (1985) to Sonic (1991). 6 years is a long time and in Mario 2 USA and Mario 3 (1988) you already were able to walk left (apart from a few auto-scrolling levels).

And they had tons of hidden passages, doors, even whole levels. I think exploring is much more rewarding in Mario games because all the secrets are cleverly placed.
In Sonic there are the emeralds and maybe a 1-up here and there that's worth the trouble of exploring. Everything else is just taking different routes through confusingly constructed level - but the routes don't feel different.
Most of the time you drift through the levels like along currents of water without much control over Sonic.

At least I have that feeling when playing them now. As I said, I enjoyed them back in the day but for me it is out of the question that Mario games had much better level design.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest