Tropes and sexism in gaming.

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Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by clarance » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:43 pm

DPrinny wrote:
clarance wrote:
I still don't understand how we as a gaming society wont bat an eyelid whilst slaying hundreds in many violent sadistic and exotic ways, but won't entertain the idea of having rape-em-ups or Jimmy Savile style RPG's.
Ill take "Games from Japan that cause a censored storm" for ten please Bob

Well absolutely, yes. I have no real love of modern Japanese culture, but at least in that respect you can't accuse them of hypocrisy.
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Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by DPrinny » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:50 pm

Some days I wish I could program a game called "Gay rape simulator with necrophilia" and have it just be some cutesy platformer where the girl saves the prince just to see the impending s**t storm from the daily Mail on "BAN THIS SICK FILTH!!" and outraged parents that have yet to play it

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Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by r0jaws » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:57 pm

I knew I'd read about it somewhere.. RapeLay
Articles in defence have also been written, many noting that rape is a lesser crime compared to murder, yet there are thousands of legal video games in which the goal is to kill enemies.
Unfortunately, searching for this involved typing "rape game" into google. I'm probably on a govt watch list by now, and almost certainly have a collection of virulent malware programs distributing my finances amongst chinese hackers as we speak.

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Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by will2097 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:05 pm

DPrinny wrote:Some days I wish I could program a game called "Gay rape simulator with necrophilia" and have it just be some cutesy platformer where the girl saves the prince just to see the impending s**t storm from the daily Mail on "BAN THIS SICK FILTH!!" and outraged parents that have yet to play it
There's that winning $150,000 idea for kickstarter.

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Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by Space_turnip » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:06 pm

Sel Feena wrote:What constitutes a 'gay game'? I can only imagine a game centred around a relationship, which actually sounds kind of interesting TBH. Representation, by including gay characters in games should be encouraged, but just as with TV I can imagine that this'll start off with outrageous stereotypes before settling into something that isn't massively insulting.
One of the more pleasently surprising moments of video games was the way Mass Effect 3 dealt with the gay shuttle pilot character. Games don't do sensitive, but for a short time the way it handled it was surprisingly thoughtful.

Gay characters are vastly under represented in games. Female representation has come a massive way though. There's a sense that a lot of the arguments put forward recently by 'feminists' (I know feminists, most of the women who write about sexism in games are not feminists) is quite a few years too late and don't actually pay attention to the numerous positive steps gaming have taken to improve the representation.

Oh and that Lego Friends is horrible. Not because it's sexist, just because it's rubbish when compared to other lego. But then the many mothers and fathers who I sell them too on a daily basis because their young daughter loves them don't seem to mind, so Lego must be doing something right.
Last edited by Space_turnip on Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by DPrinny » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:09 pm

r0jaws wrote:I knew I'd read about it somewhere.. RapeLay
Articles in defence have also been written, many noting that rape is a lesser crime compared to murder, yet there are thousands of legal video games in which the goal is to kill enemies.
Unfortunately, searching for this involved typing "rape game" into google. I'm probably on a govt watch list by now, and almost certainly have a collection of virulent malware programs distributing my finances amongst chinese hackers as we speak.
Murder ends a life, rape can ruin one

I have seen a lot worse games than Rapelay, wont play them as its not my thing
Clusters revenge anyone?

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Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by Sixteen Plus » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:39 pm

killbot wrote:
Sixteen Plus wrote:Well a gay game will only appeal to gay people
Oh, for Christ's sake. Have I gone through a wormhole and woken up in 1947?
killbot wrote:
ShadowNeku wrote:
Sixteen Plus wrote:Well a gay game will only appeal to gay people, it would only cover a niche market and therefore wouldn't be mainstream. There would also likely be an age-restriction as it deals with a more adult theme.
I'm not gay but i have no issue playing as a homosexual protagonist, provided their persona isn't defined by their sexual preference (such as the example Dprinny posted with the God Hand hugely exaggerated, camp villians). I'd love to see a big company like Konami get a AAA release on the market like that. I fear though that most of the market wouldn't be as open minded as i am and it would be too much of a risk. Still, there should definitely be a push for acceptance of it in games since its part of society and seems to be ever increasing in popularity with other forms of media.
Lots of straight people went to see Brokeback Mountain. Of course, most gamers aren't mature enough to be confronted by a gay character withut being freaked out.
ShadowNeku wrote:
Sixteen Plus wrote:Well a gay game will only appeal to gay people, it would only cover a niche market and therefore wouldn't be mainstream. There would also likely be an age-restriction as it deals with a more adult theme.
I'm not gay but i have no issue playing as a homosexual protagonist, provided their persona isn't defined by their sexual preference (such as the example Dprinny posted with the God Hand hugely exaggerated, camp villians). I'd love to see a big company like Konami get a AAA release on the market like that. I fear though that most of the market wouldn't be as open minded as i am and it would be too much of a risk. Still, there should definitely be a push for acceptance of it in games since its part of society and seems to be ever increasing in popularity with other forms of media.
Oh good grief, first this radical feminist and now this. Well I'm sorry for not being politically correct but I would need to feel some kind of tendencies to buy a game with a gay protagonist as the only reason to have a gay main character in the first place would be for a relevant adult gay theme storyline otherwise what would be the point?

Why can't the game character just be non-sexual/non-defined if the game doesn't deal with things on a sexual nature? For a sexually orientated game it would be more enjoyable for those with whatever tendencies it's aimed towards. I don't know any straight guy who would enjoy playing an adult gay porn type of game, Even if it isn't specifically sex orientated there must be some kind of leaning towards to feel totally comfortable to play a game where the male guy saves his man love from the evil wicked heterosauruses.

It just serves no purpose to state any kind of different gender preference in a bog standard arcade game except for political correctness purposes. In reality it wouldn't be a best selling idea.Tough for some to deal with but it's true.

It's similarly with music in some ways. I really like Queen, but they're a little different as much of their music is quite universal for all which doesn't often touch much on homosexuality anyway. On the other hand, how many straight people were say...Bronski Beat fans or huge fans of Jimmy Somerville? Their music is heavily gay oriented, so for a straight guy not to identify and appreciate their music are they considered homophobic? I believe you must surely have some gay feelings to be fans of them. Heck, you couldn't even get me on the dancefloor for YMCA :P

I play The Sims3 and recently bought University Life, but never once have I ever paired two guys up and acted out sexual fantasies, does this make me homophobic? No, it just makes me straight.

At the end of the day, I never made my last post to offend and this is all just another big fckng overblown deal over nothing being made like I'm some kind of archaic monster, which is pretty ironic really :roll: :lol:
Last edited by Sixteen Plus on Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by Space_turnip » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:51 pm

Sixteen Plus wrote:
Oh good grief, first this radical feminist and now this. Well I'm sorry for not being politically correct but I would need to feel some kind of tendencies to buy a game with a gay protagonist as the only reason to have a gay main character in the first place would be for a relevant adult gay theme storyline otherwise what would be the point?

Why can't the game character just be non-sexual/non-defined if the game doesn't deal with things on a sexual nature? For a sexually orientated game it would be more enjoyable for those with whatever tendencies it's aimed towards. I don't know any straight guy who would enjoy playing an adult gay porn type of game, Even if it isn't specifically sex orientated there must be some kind of leaning towards to feel totally comfortable to play a game where the male guy saves his man love from the evil wicked heterosauruses.
First off, she's not a radical feminist. The way those two words are used in the completely wrog context astounds me. She's some woman who's making a comment about video games. There's nothing radical or feminist about her. Feminists the world over weep.

Second - why would the only reason for a game to have a gay protagonist be to further an 'adult' gay theme? You might say that having a throw away comment in a game that a male character happens to like men rather than women is pointless, but the entire point is if games can make these non-story relevant quick references it shows a general acceptance of gay characters in games.

I'm also not sure why you're claiming that gay characters wouldnt be relevant if a game isn't 'sexual' in nature. Last time I checked, Mario wasn't known as an adult game, yet there's an implied reference to the fact that Mario 'loves' peach. Why would it be an issue if Mario happened to be saving...Peter instead? It doesn't make a game sexual just because a man happens to fancy another man. It seems that people are making the entire existence of gay characters dependent on a sexual sub-text. Which is simply not right.

It wouldn't make a massive difference to straight men if a character was simply referred to as gay, whilst it would be a massive thing for the gay community. Whats wrong with that? This reminds me of the ridiculous situation in Star Trek for years and years. The way such an open minded, progressive thinking series dealt with anything gay was woefully poor. I don't see why any man would have an issue with playing a gay character in a video game.
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Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by Space_turnip » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:58 pm

Sixteen Plus wrote:
At the end of the day, I never made my last post to offend and this is all just another big fckng overblown deal over nothing being made like I'm some kind of archaic monster, which is pretty ironic really :roll: :lol:
It's the internet. You write something, someone is going to respond to it ;) Also for the love of god, let's not get into people yet again misunderstanding debate with trolling or any such other nonsense.

As for any notion that this forum, out of ALL the internet forums is sexist or homophobic..well, that's just silly. It's a bloody good thread this though.
Last edited by Space_turnip on Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by DPrinny » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:00 pm

^Marios got the whole "Gay mustache" thing going, for all we know he could be unclogging some guys drain in his off time,

After all he aint getting any Peach pie

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Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by Space_turnip » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:01 pm

DPrinny wrote:^Marios got the whole "Gay mustache" thing going, for all we know he could be unclogging some guys drain in his off time,

After all he aint getting any Peach pie
I bet a quick google image search would show that he is....
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Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by Sixteen Plus » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:05 pm

Well Space_turnip...

At the end of the day even with all the advertising, education and arm-twisting in the world, it just wouldn't sell big to the mass mainstream. Could you really imagine if Sony Playstation brought out 2 protagonists to rival Mario and Luigi and made them gay lovers? Tell me, how many parents would "actually" buy it for their young children even if the game was great fun?

Like it or not, the majority will always want the more conventional. Hey I grew up with severe facial and speech problems and faced years of bullying (surgery has fixed much since) but it doesn't mean to say I want a disabled protagonist as a game hero for equalities sake, and equal rights of respect are unfortunately even lower for the disabled community, at least in some of the western world.

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Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by DPrinny » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:12 pm

Space_turnip wrote:
DPrinny wrote:^Marios got the whole "Gay mustache" thing going, for all we know he could be unclogging some guys drain in his off time,

After all he aint getting any Peach pie
I bet a quick google image search would show that he is....
Not a bloody plumber, all these bloody Mario spin offs not one is "Mario teaches plumbing"

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Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by Space_turnip » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:18 pm

Sixteen Plus wrote:
At the end of the day even with all the advertising, education and arm-twisting in the world, it just wouldn't sell big to the mass mainstream. Could you really imagine if Sony Playstation brought out 2 protagonists to rival Mario and Luigi and made them gay lovers? Tell me, how many parents would "actually" buy it for their young children even if the game was great fun?
It takes someone, somewhere, to start something off. As I've already said, Mass effect, one of the biggest games of the last few years, had a respectful, sympathetic gay character (more than one in fact). No big fuss, no drama. It was simply part of the game. Not the main protagonist, of course, and we all know the fuss that was made about Mass Effect in the past, but that's a step. As for two male (or female) lovers as main protagonists in a video game, you really think the mass mainstream, which lets remember is not the core gaming audience but the extended audience that games publishers are desperate to tap into, are as adverse to gay relationships as they used to be? Hell, most media is falling over itself to portray gay characters in other forms of media because they know it does seemingly sell.
Like it or not, the majority will always want the more conventional. Hey I grew up with severe facial and speech problems and faced years of bullying (surgery has fixed much since) but it doesn't mean to say I want a disabled protagonist as a game hero for equalities sake and equal rights of respect are unfortunately even lower for the disabled community, at least in some of the western world.
Agreed. But surely we should expect disabled characters in games? No big fuss about it, just surely the impact that a disabled character could have in a game as a positive role model for disabled children would be potentially so important, it's a no brainer?

Gaming and gamers are very strange. We like something which is itself not accepted by the mainstream. The 'mainstream' continually dislikes violence in gaming and we defend it, yet we then defend the lack of non-traditional characters in games because it won't be accepted by the mainstream. That's a bit strange, isn't it?
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Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by Space_turnip » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:19 pm

DPrinny wrote:
Space_turnip wrote:
DPrinny wrote:^Marios got the whole "Gay mustache" thing going, for all we know he could be unclogging some guys drain in his off time,

After all he aint getting any Peach pie
I bet a quick google image search would show that he is....
Not a bloody plumber, all these bloody Mario spin offs not one is "Mario teaches plumbing"
I await the Plumbers don't wear ties/Mario crossover. In fact surely it's out there already....
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