Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Discuss and discover all the great games of yesteryear!

Moderators: mknott, NickThorpe, Darran@Retro Gamer, MMohammed, lcarlson

User avatar
killbot
Posts: 4824
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 5:36 am

Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by killbot » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:24 pm

Liamh1982 wrote:What are the chances she acts like Millie Tant i.e. all her principles go out the window as soon as she sees a bloke she fancies and turns into a sop?

I'd say about 98%.
See, there's no problem with sexism here. Well-rounded, progressive comments like this is why the forum has such a large and vocal female contingent.
Image

You can buy my book here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wolfshead-ebook ... =wolfshead

NES, SNES, N64, GC, Wii, Wii U, GB, GBC, GBA SP, DS Lite, 3DS, MS, MD, Saturn, DC, GG, Xbox, 360

User avatar
Sixteen Plus
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:46 am

Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by Sixteen Plus » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:25 pm

All these online threats she's supposedly had, quite clearly they've been empty ones made up by internet trolls. When somebody makes hugely unpopular and inflammatory opinions online then they're naturally expected to get trolled usually within the subject they're on about. In her case on a sexual nature as sexism is her subject. Unfortunately you cannot talk to internet trolls because this is what they do with all intent, troll their victim for LOL's only, not for any reasonable debate. But then would she listen to reason from serious people anyway? I doubt so as it's quite a long fall from her pedestal.

She clearly doesn't understand the male mind and is on a losing battle. Her generalisations of men is ignorant sexism in itself.
Last edited by Sixteen Plus on Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
clarance
Posts: 2699
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: The Fens
Contact:

Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by clarance » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:26 pm

killbot wrote:
AmigaJay wrote:Somedays I wish I never log on...some people are so delusional in their own heads, perhaps she can use the money to get a psychologist (and perhaps a male escort)
Yes, a good shag will sort her out. After all, that's basically all women need.

You do realise what you sound like, right?
That's basically all anybody needs.

My favourite part of the video is when missy explains the term damsel in distress for us all by quoting French and all that - most educative and infortunative :|

Don't get to close to my fantasy...
Death may be your Santa Claus.

User avatar
r0jaws
Posts: 1860
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by r0jaws » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:33 pm

killbot wrote:
r0jaws wrote:Are you talking from the thread here, or to the reaction on her YouTube video? Comments have been disallowed there, and TBH I think pathologically sexist is a bit strong for what has been said so far in this thread.
Isn't this the woman who's Kickstarter account was swamped with abuse, death threats, threats of sexual violence and horrendous personal insults? Gamers really don't cover themselves in glory with that kind of behaviour.

The treatment of sexual politics in most mainstream games is stone-age. At best. Insinuating that any woman who dares point this out is a Doc Marten-wearing, crew-cut sporting, man-hating lesbian is just compounding the problem.
I have no idea, I've never heard of her before. I still think her arguments are, in the main, debatable but I can imagine the sort of responses she would have had. This is the internet after all.
Why are sexual politics in Games so important? Does anyone believe that Mario rescuing the princess, or that Lara Croft has in some way warped the mind of the child playing those games.
It seems very similar to the video games cause violence arguments.

User avatar
DPrinny
Posts: 24373
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:24 pm
Location: Super Mancyland

Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by DPrinny » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:33 pm

Well complaining about the "Females need rescuing" story she must realise that games are mostly made by blokes for blokes.

If she wants to be the girl to save the day there are games that have that.

Surprised that nobodys picked up on the lack of gay leading guys.
Start making more games with that type of guy in the lead to annoy a lot of Americans.

"Pounding the meat"
Indeed

If you have a strong opinion on the internet expect trolling or counter opinions and deal with them by ignoring them or at least getting them to explain things.

User avatar
r0jaws
Posts: 1860
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by r0jaws » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:37 pm

DPrinny wrote:...Surprised that nobodys picked up on the lack of gay leading guys....
You know what, that's a very good point. Not my cup of tea, but it's just as valid a point as she makes about female sexism.

User avatar
DPrinny
Posts: 24373
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:24 pm
Location: Super Mancyland

Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by DPrinny » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:48 pm

r0jaws wrote:
DPrinny wrote:...Surprised that nobodys picked up on the lack of gay leading guys....
You know what, that's a very good point. Not my cup of tea, but it's just as valid a point as she makes about female sexism.

Pointing out GOD HAND
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrRQnwv04NE

Even less blokes want to play as a homosexual

Wait isn't Zangief one?

User avatar
killbot
Posts: 4824
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 5:36 am

Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by killbot » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:53 pm

r0jaws wrote:Why are sexual politics in Games so important? Does anyone believe that Mario rescuing the princess, or that Lara Croft has in some way warped the mind of the child playing those games.
Why is it important? Because videogames are now aspiring to be art. Usually badly written, trashy, lowbrow art but art nonetheless. The problem is, when it comes to collecting plaudits the industry wants everyone to see it as purveying artistically valuable products which are capable of affecting and touching people deeply. Yet when its being told to put its house in order over the despicable level of violence and sexism in its products it wants to use the excuse of 'these are just games, they don't affect anyone'. It's a double standard that the industry, and its fans, can't keep up forever. The fact that many male gamers appear to believe any woman who takes issue with this must be a man-hating lesbian only proves there's a problem. If that's the level on which this debate is being conducted then it's a pretty shameful state of affairs.
It seems very similar to the video games cause violence arguments.
Yes, in that the gaming community still refuses to engage in the debate in a mature way.
Image

You can buy my book here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wolfshead-ebook ... =wolfshead

NES, SNES, N64, GC, Wii, Wii U, GB, GBC, GBA SP, DS Lite, 3DS, MS, MD, Saturn, DC, GG, Xbox, 360

User avatar
Sel Feena
Posts: 3506
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:38 pm

Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by Sel Feena » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:57 pm

Gay characters? You're on a hiding to nothing there, just look at the fuss some people kicked up with Mass Effect including the possibility to pursue a gay relationship. Or to be specific, a gay male relationship. Funny, that.

Something to keep in mind is how gay characters are handled, it would be terrible to have someone who is just defined by their sexuality. Do it right, or don't bother, because the result will be lazy, insulting tokenism.
Image

User avatar
Sixteen Plus
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:46 am

Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by Sixteen Plus » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:59 pm

Well a gay game will only appeal to gay people, it would only cover a niche market and therefore wouldn't be mainstream. There would also likely be an age-restriction as it deals with a more adult theme.

But if we scrap human characters out of games altogether and have cute little bunny rabbits and other small furry animals doing bunny hops for points and other similarly harmless wacky things instead then perhaps this would solve all this mindbending sex and violence nonsense.

Oh wait no, we'd have the animal liberation front to worry about then :?

User avatar
DPrinny
Posts: 24373
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:24 pm
Location: Super Mancyland

Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by DPrinny » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:06 pm

Video game violence.
How meany people buy "Violent games" each year?
How meany of them have gone on a killing spree?
What mental state was the person in?

There you go

Sexism thing
Strong female characters
Lara Croft
Samus (Ok no the Another M one)
Jill (resident evil
Clare (Resi 2)
Alys (Phantasy star 4)
Alis (Phatasy star)
Giana sisters
Blaze (SOR)
That lass from golden Axe beast rider
Chun-li

Thats off the top of my head
Well a gay game will only appeal to gay people, it would only cover a niche market and therefore wouldn't be mainstream. There would also likely be an age-restriction as it deals with a more adult theme.
And bisexuals, and people that just want to be offended.

there is always Cho Aniki

User avatar
r0jaws
Posts: 1860
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by r0jaws » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:07 pm

killbot wrote:
r0jaws wrote:Why are sexual politics in Games so important? Does anyone believe that Mario rescuing the princess, or that Lara Croft has in some way warped the mind of the child playing those games.
Why is it important? Because videogames are now aspiring to be art. Usually badly written, trashy, lowbrow art but art nonetheless. The problem is, when it comes to collecting plaudits the industry wants everyone to see it as purveying artistically valuable products which are capable of affecting and touching people deeply. Yet when its being told to put its house in order over the despicable level of violence and sexism in its products it wants to use the excuse of 'these are just games, they don't affect anyone'. It's a double standard that the industry, and its fans, can't keep up forever. The fact that many male gamers appear to believe any woman who takes issue with this must be a man-hating lesbian only proves there's a problem. If that's the level on which this debate is being conducted then it's a pretty shameful state of affairs.
It seems very similar to the video games cause violence arguments.
Yes, in that the gaming community still refuses to engage in the debate in a mature way.
I think you're going to be hard pushed to get the gaming community to engage in a mature debate about anything, ever. :wink:
However, Each individual game has to be taken in it's own right. You can't lump indie games with artistic pretensions alongside Tomb Raider and the latest casino app and expect consistency. It's too diverse.

User avatar
killbot
Posts: 4824
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 5:36 am

Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by killbot » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:11 pm

Sixteen Plus wrote:Well a gay game will only appeal to gay people
Oh, for Christ's sake. Have I gone through a wormhole and woken up in 1947?
Image

You can buy my book here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wolfshead-ebook ... =wolfshead

NES, SNES, N64, GC, Wii, Wii U, GB, GBC, GBA SP, DS Lite, 3DS, MS, MD, Saturn, DC, GG, Xbox, 360

User avatar
ShadowNeku
Posts: 2135
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:10 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by ShadowNeku » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:15 pm

Sixteen Plus wrote:Well a gay game will only appeal to gay people, it would only cover a niche market and therefore wouldn't be mainstream. There would also likely be an age-restriction as it deals with a more adult theme.
I'm not gay but i have no issue playing as a homosexual protagonist, provided their persona isn't defined by their sexual preference (such as the example Dprinny posted with the God Hand hugely exaggerated, camp villians). I'd love to see a big company like Konami get a AAA release on the market like that. I fear though that most of the market wouldn't be as open minded as i am and it would be too much of a risk. Still, there should definitely be a push for acceptance of it in games since its part of society and seems to be ever increasing in popularity with other forms of media.
I asked for orange. It gave me lemon lime!

User avatar
clarance
Posts: 2699
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: The Fens
Contact:

Re: Tropes and sexism in gaming.

Post by clarance » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:15 pm

DPrinny wrote:Video game violence.
How meany people buy "Violent games" each year?
How meany of them have gone on a killing spree?
What mental state was the person in?

There you go
But (graphic) video game violence does breed a certain state of mind, a certain aggressive manner of action, I'm pretty much convinced about that. To deny it is as absurd as it is to suggest that it leads to mass murder.

I still don't understand how we as a gaming society wont bat an eyelid whilst slaying hundreds in many violent sadistic and exotic ways, but won't entertain the idea of having rape-em-ups or Jimmy Savile style RPG's.
Death may be your Santa Claus.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest