Fed Up of Being Nickel & Dimed This Gen!

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Re: Fed Up of Being Nickel & Dimed This Gen!

Post by DreamcastRIP » Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:39 pm

Dudley wrote:
Negative Creep wrote:It seems that even Capcom have realised that one disc DLC was a step too far.
DLC annoys me in general, since it's a blatant way to get more money and hurt the second hand market, but on disc DLC is a disgrace. It's like buying a brand new car equipped with sat nav, but then having to pay extra for the dealer to switch it on
Artificially disabling features in lower end cars happens all the time.

For instance, those times there's a 2.0 (115hp), 2.0 (130hp), 2.0 (150hp) model etc. Frequently just a software difference for your 3 grand.
Which model car is that?

For instance, I know a few years back the MINI and MINI Cooper had the same engine but they had different horse power due to different engine mapping. However, the price difference wasn't JUST due to different engine mapping settings as the Cooper came with additional and uprated components too.
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Re: Fed Up of Being Nickel & Dimed This Gen!

Post by DreamcastRIP » Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:44 pm

Dudley wrote:
DreamcastRIP wrote: Well, why don't publishers offer these 'day one' DLC packs (on disc or not) for free for the first couple of weeks after a game's launched so to encourage more gamers to pay the full SRP?
They do. The collector's editions of ME3 came with the first DLC, Borderlands 2 will give away its first DLC to everyone who preordered. Ditto LA Noire.
That's something at least. :D

Albeit that a price premium was presumably involved in purchasing the Collector's Edition of Mass Effect 3.

What was the nature of the free DLC given to those who pre-ordered Borderlands 2 and LA Noire? Was it something worthwhile such as substantial new map packs or something derisory like a free weapon or skins?
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Re: Fed Up of Being Nickel & Dimed This Gen!

Post by Negative Creep » Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:52 pm

Dudley wrote:
Negative Creep wrote:It seems that even Capcom have realised that one disc DLC was a step too far.
DLC annoys me in general, since it's a blatant way to get more money and hurt the second hand market, but on disc DLC is a disgrace. It's like buying a brand new car equipped with sat nav, but then having to pay extra for the dealer to switch it on
Artificially disabling features in lower end cars happens all the time.

For instance, those times there's a 2.0 (115hp), 2.0 (130hp), 2.0 (150hp) model etc. Frequently just a software difference for your 3 grand.
Or to put it another way, if you bought a house would you expect to pay the builders extra to unlock the bathroom? Many people will chose a lower spec car due to fuel or insurance considerations, whereas with a game everyone gets the same "base" model. If you did want to make the car more powerful you would have a choice of which company performed the upgrade, and it wouldn't reset once you sold the car on.
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Re: Fed Up of Being Nickel & Dimed This Gen!

Post by Evermore » Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:21 pm

I'm a bit of a ludite, but I just wish that I could walk into a game shop, buy a factory sealed game for a reasonably price, and just censored off home and enjoy the full experience. You know, just like the old days.

I think that online can be great for sorting out patches and whatnot, and online play can be excellent. I just feel that some devs have taken advantage of the movement online and taken the p!ss with some of their business practices. Nintendo have been pretty good in fairness, but some third party devs are really annoying me with their dodgy dealings....

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Re: Fed Up of Being Nickel & Dimed This Gen!

Post by pratty » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:56 am

Evermore wrote:I'm a bit of a ludite, but I just wish that I could walk into a game shop, buy a factory sealed game for a reasonably price, and just censored off home and enjoy the full experience. You know, just like the old days.
Yes, this point often get's overlooked. For me it's not just about about whether I'm being ripped off, it's also about the breaking up of content and "owning" a portion of the game digitally rather than physically. I still feel most people prefer physical media, it's less restrictive than DLC.

When DLC comes out day one it makes the seperation of content seem pointless, where as DLC would at least be more justified if it was a genuine afterthought released well after the game launched.

Regardless of the "rip-off" debate, DLC does feel like a deliberate stepping stone to accustom people to buying and "owning" their games digitally.
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Re: Fed Up of Being Nickel & Dimed This Gen!

Post by The Beans » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:42 am

pratty wrote:DLC does feel like a deliberate stepping stone to accustom people to buying and "owning" their games digitally.
That's exactly what it is.
The proliferation in such things shows it's working too. I'll miss owning a physical product, I've got shelves full of games for many systems, but there's too many great games out there that are sold digitally with more to come and I'm not prepared to miss out on them.
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Re: Fed Up of Being Nickel & Dimed This Gen!

Post by Rayne » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:59 am

pratty wrote:
Evermore wrote:I'm a bit of a ludite, but I just wish that I could walk into a game shop, buy a factory sealed game for a reasonably price, and just censored off home and enjoy the full experience. You know, just like the old days.
Yes, this point often get's overlooked. For me it's not just about about whether I'm being ripped off, it's also about the breaking up of content and "owning" a portion of the game digitally rather than physically. I still feel most people prefer physical media, it's less restrictive than DLC.

When DLC comes out day one it makes the seperation of content seem pointless, where as DLC would at least be more justified if it was a genuine afterthought released well after the game launched.

Regardless of the "rip-off" debate, DLC does feel like a deliberate stepping stone to accustom people to buying and "owning" their games digitally.
A lot of games have GOTY editions that include all the additional content (Red Dead Redemption, Fallout 3, New Vegas & Oblivion all spring to mind) and the ones that don't have DLC that is so insignificant, you don't lose anything by not getting to play it (Deus Ex & Mass Effect 2's DLC packs spring to mind)

You can buy XBLA compilation discs, there's not enough of them in my opinion but it's at least one way to own fantastic digital games in a physical format
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Re: Fed Up of Being Nickel & Dimed This Gen!

Post by The Beans » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:13 am

Rayne wrote:You can buy XBLA compilation discs, there's not enough of them in my opinion but it's at least one way to own fantastic digital games in a physical format
I wish there was more XBLA stuff on disc too. 500 hundred games on there and only a small amount on disc despite the many sales successes. It's probably just not worth the money for the publishers.
Wish somebody would do the compilation thing with XBLIG. Cherry pick thirty or forty good games from XBLIG, wrap them in a front end, add Achievements and real online leaderboards and release on disc. Instant buy for me. Massive value for money.
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Re: Fed Up of Being Nickel & Dimed This Gen!

Post by Rayne » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:41 am

The Beans wrote:
Rayne wrote:You can buy XBLA compilation discs, there's not enough of them in my opinion but it's at least one way to own fantastic digital games in a physical format
I wish there was more XBLA stuff on disc too. 500 hundred games on there and only a small amount on disc despite the many sales successes. It's probably just not worth the money for the publishers.
Wish somebody would do the compilation thing with XBLIG. Cherry pick thirty or forty good games from XBLIG, wrap them in a front end, add Achievements and real online leaderboards and release on disc. Instant buy for me. Massive value for money.
That'd be an absolute dream come true :D

As you say though, the problem lies with the fact that Microsoft don't create many of the games themselves, thus profits would need to be split between loads of different developers. I think :?
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Re: Fed Up of Being Nickel & Dimed This Gen!

Post by Loftgroover » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:49 am

What was the nature of the free DLC given to those who pre-ordered Borderlands 2 and LA Noire? Was it something worthwhile such as substantial new map packs or something derisory like a free weapon or skins?
LA Noire was an extra case to solve. Depended what shop you got it from but I think there was a choice of 4 (well, there were 4 extra cases anyway...Reefer Madness was the one I got free I think.)

Dunno about Borderlands 2 but Arkham City gave you the Catwoman segment of the game if you bought a new copy. Alan Wake did a similar thing.

I love these threads...so much moaning and daft things said. On another forum a guy was moaning about how he was FURIOUS that Mass Effect 3 had day 1 DLC with an important plot twist contained in it. When asked why he doesnt just not buy it or wait and get his revenge by buying it pre owned he said he had no choice but to buy it day 1 as he would read spoilers on the internet and ruin the story! :D

My take on it...doesn't anger me. Things like online passes are fine as I dont buy preowned (and while I trade in a lot so the pre-owned market is important I can also see it from the publishers point of view - you have given them no cash so why should they care if you get the whole game?(, so extra levels for buying new games are welcome too.

Not a huge online gamer so other than buying all the Gears of War 3 DLC (Pathological Horder was a title invented for me :D ) the price of map packs has never affected me and would sooner cut off my eyelids than ever pay for a costume pack so CAPCOM can list as many as they like.

If Joe Bloggs buying loads of Horse Armour and Time Saver Unlock packs are what is keeping me paying 40 quid on day 1 for a game then I am 100% in favour of DLC. Latest example Virtua Fighter 5 Final, cheap full game plus tonnes of costume packs for the rabid fans means I get the best 3D fighting game ever for a bargain fee!!
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Re: Fed Up of Being Nickel & Dimed This Gen!

Post by Mayhem » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:02 am

Anyone who pre-orders Borderlands 2, in any edition, get a DLC code for a fifth playable character in the game when she is available, a free exclusive set of weapons, a in-game relic to boost loot finding, and a key to a locked in-game chest afaik. Anyone pre-ordering from Gamestop in the US appears to get a version of Moxxi's Dome on top.
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Re: Fed Up of Being Nickel & Dimed This Gen!

Post by DreamcastRIP » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:13 am

Loftgroover wrote:
What was the nature of the free DLC given to those who pre-ordered Borderlands 2 and LA Noire? Was it something worthwhile such as substantial new map packs or something derisory like a free weapon or skins?
LA Noire was an extra case to solve. Depended what shop you got it from but I think there was a choice of 4 (well, there were 4 extra cases anyway...Reefer Madness was the one I got free I think.)

Dunno about Borderlands 2 but Arkham City gave you the Catwoman segment of the game if you bought a new copy. Alan Wake did a similar thing.
Thanks for the clarification. :D

It'll be interesting to see if the publishers of LA Noire, Batman: Arkham City and Alan Wake repeat the pattern with future game releases.
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Re: Fed Up of Being Nickel & Dimed This Gen!

Post by DreamcastRIP » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:22 am

Mayhem wrote:Anyone who pre-orders Borderlands 2, in any edition, get a DLC code for a fifth playable character in the game when she is available, a free exclusive set of weapons, a in-game relic to boost loot finding, and a key to a locked in-game chest afaik. Anyone pre-ordering from Gamestop in the US appears to get a version of Moxxi's Dome on top.
Sounds like a pretty decent reward for having pre-ordered the game.

If the incentive is great enough then more people will buy games at launch, or close to launch, at the SRP. If the 'day one' free DLC is deemed mediocre then more folk will hold off purchase until the game drops to a lower price. Pretty simple. :D
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Re: Fed Up of Being Nickel & Dimed This Gen!

Post by The Beans » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:59 am

Rayne wrote:
The Beans wrote:
Rayne wrote:You can buy XBLA compilation discs, there's not enough of them in my opinion but it's at least one way to own fantastic digital games in a physical format
I wish there was more XBLA stuff on disc too. 500 hundred games on there and only a small amount on disc despite the many sales successes. It's probably just not worth the money for the publishers.
Wish somebody would do the compilation thing with XBLIG. Cherry pick thirty or forty good games from XBLIG, wrap them in a front end, add Achievements and real online leaderboards and release on disc. Instant buy for me. Massive value for money.
That'd be an absolute dream come true :D

As you say though, the problem lies with the fact that Microsoft don't create many of the games themselves, thus profits would need to be split between loads of different developers. I think :?
Profits would only have to be split if you licensed them in that way. Many of the good games have bombed outright on XBLIG sales-wise or are pretty much dead on that front now. I bet a fair few would take a one-off payment of a few thousand dollars and the extra exposure their game would get on a disc compilation if somebody wanted to pull it all together. I think the biggest issue would be the cost of Microsoft's certification nightmare. And the fact that despite being such monstrous value for money the secondhand market would still undermine it anyway. We can but dream, unfortunately.
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Re: Fed Up of Being Nickel & Dimed This Gen!

Post by Freestyler » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:58 pm

Dudley wrote:
Freestyler wrote: If you want my money it is up to you THE PUBLISHER to sort out a product I want, for a price I'm willing to pay. For a price I'm willing to pay, remember. Not what you want to charge me. I am the customer. You need me, not the other way around. I can go elsewhere, as easy as pie. I have zero loyalty, and you shouldn't expect any. I am a Consumer.
But it's not about you, it's about you and 5.99 billion other people and plenty of people recognise that if you want something like Skyrim it's going to cost money to produce and are merely hoping that some people will consider the princely sum of 50p an hour reasonable value for entertainment.
This is the point I'm trying to make. If Skyrim is anything like its bigger brother Oblivion then your 50p an hour example is definitely a price I'm willing to pay. Very definitely. That's amazing value for money, as far as I'm concerned. If it was a four hour game that'd be something entirely different.

That said, there's always the chance that Publishers would try to artificially elongate their games to meet the "50p an Hour" expectation. So we'd get games featuring endless backtracking and "dead" time faffing about, instead of focussed story and content.

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