Did the SNES deserve better?

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thevulture
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Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by thevulture » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:31 pm

'When the SNES appeared, it brought with it a clutch of the finest games ever to grace a TV screen.Super Mario World, Pilot Wings, F-Zero, Zelda III and super Probotector showed what the little beige box was capable of.Everything pointed to a long and healthy future for the SNES.'

And then nothing happened.No-one else really seemed to be able (or cared enough) to get to grips with the machine.

'...the SNES has been reduced to a sprites and scrolling engine...'

Few select quotes taken from 'edgeview' of Issue 22 of Edge magazine-Made interesting reading to myself, thought might make for good topic.I was a MD man myself at the time, picked up a SNES years later for Plok, Mr Do!, Alien 3, Choplifter 3 etc, but to those who bought a SNES early on, do you feel the hardware potential was really used by developers at the time, or was it often reduced to 'tarted up' MD games?.

Does anyone feel more could have been done on the std.hardware (No SFX chip stuff) and what would you have liked to have seen done?.

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crusto
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by crusto » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:45 pm

Tbh, no not at all. I loved my snes, it sat alongside my MD and for me they complemented each other perfectly. Games like Super Star Wars and its sequels, Super G+G, Super Castlevania etc etc proved what the machine was capable of. I doubt the MD, its nearest competitor could have pulled them off. I was more than happy with my lot from it.
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by jcdentont1000 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:45 pm

thevulture wrote:'When the SNES appeared, it brought with it a clutch of the finest games ever to grace a TV screen.Super Mario World, Pilot Wings, F-Zero, Zelda III and super Probotector showed what the little beige box was capable of.Everything pointed to a long and healthy future for the SNES.'

And then nothing happened.No-one else really seemed to be able (or cared enough) to get to grips with the machine.

'...the SNES has been reduced to a sprites and scrolling engine...'

Few select quotes taken from 'edgeview' of Issue 22 of Edge magazine-Made interesting reading to myself, thought might make for good topic.I was a MD man myself at the time, picked up a SNES years later for Plok, Mr Do!, Alien 3, Choplifter 3 etc, but to those who bought a SNES early on, do you feel the hardware potential was really used by developers at the time, or was it often reduced to 'tarted up' MD games?.

Does anyone feel more could have been done on the std.hardware (No SFX chip stuff) and what would you have liked to have seen done?.
That sounds like an absolutely ridiculous article written to get people riled up; I can't think of any other console which produced such quality titles (first and third party) right until the very end.

I had both a SNES and the entire Sega caboodle (Mega-CD, 32x etc) in my childhood and even then, Sonic the Hedgehog aside, SNES games always looked that bit crisper and more, well, beautiful. Looking back now, as a fan of both Sega and Nintendo (as neutral, as t'were), it is plain to me that SNES games are made with that bit more quality - particularly the first party titles.

Over time, many SNES games got bigger, braver and more inventive than early releases thanks to developers understanding of the machine. The Secret of Mana came very late in the cycle, for example. Similar is happening now with the Wii with the likes of Xenoblade Chronicles, Skyward Sword and The Last Story - they have finally sussed exactly how to write for the tech and maximise the potential. It isn't unusual or just a Nintendo problem with games looking better over time, try comparing Perfect Dark Zero to, say, Modern Warfare 3 on the xBox 360!

The SNES is a seminal machine which produced quality titles to the very end.
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thevulture
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by thevulture » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:56 pm

Edge had (and continues to have) a 'love' of putting stuff in the magazine designed to get a reaction from it's readers, so was honestly surprised to see the SNES written off somewhat.

Few other parts they mention: 'The wonders of Mode 7 visuals remained the sole preserve of spinning logos, whirling bosses and the occasional special effect.Likewise , many of the graphical weapons in the SNES armoury were simply ignored'

Though i was'nt a SNES owner at the time, i do seem to recal games like Street Racer, SOS, Mickey Mania, Lawnmower Man etc producing some fantastic effects that the MD either could'nt reproduce or needed the MCD to do) or needed clever programming.

They blame 'most of the US sourced games' for 'reducing the SNES to 'sprites and and a scrolling engine'.

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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by theantmeister » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:01 pm

The Super Star Wars games were developed in the US and they are probably the finest examples of Mode 7 to grace the SNES.

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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by DreamcastRIP » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:02 pm

thevulture wrote:Does anyone feel more could have been done on the std.hardware (No SFX chip stuff)...?
Not really. Given the limited performance capability relative to the Mega Drive I think SNES owners got a reasonably good return.
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by ToxieDogg » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:11 pm

thevulture wrote:'And then nothing happened.No-one else really seemed to be able (or cared enough) to get to grips with the machine.

'...the SNES has been reduced to a sprites and scrolling engine...'
Good grief. :roll: Does a certain clown work for Edge now?

This is the same SNES that in it's lifespan allowed the world to play games like Secret Of Mana, Chrono Trigger, the Super Star Wars trilogy (complete with excellent for the time Mode 7 vehicle sections), the Donkey Kong Country trilogy, Killer Instinct (not my cup of tea, but a VERY impressive port), Super Turrican 1 & 2, Starwing, Yoshi's Island (tons of excellent graphical effects made possible by the Super FX chip), a commendable version of Doom, Equinox, and Super Metroid amongst others.

They're the kind of games I remember fondly when I think of the SNES. Granted it (just like the Mega Drive) also had a ton of generic 2D platformers and side scrollers but it had more than enough good games to outshine those and I really don't see how it could have 'deserved better'. :?
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by sscott » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:15 pm

I can't literally see anyone who would agree with the original statement tbh. Do you agree with it Vulture???
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thevulture
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by thevulture » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:19 pm

@toxie:This was Edge, issue 22.July 1995, N64 still known as 'Ultra 64'.Thing idea person of said 'piece' was aiming at was along lines of-Does'nt matter what hardware packed into console, if developers choose to ignore it's potential.

But then, this is EDGE we are talking about....

@Sscot:well, like i say, i only bought the SNEs for select few games.Alien 3 was fantastic (and i felt really used harware to create stunning atmosphere).Plok-bought for Tim Follin music (stunning), loved 3D sections of Lawnmower Man and the music, platform bits looked almost 8 Bit, Choplifter 3 and Mr Do Run, not exactly showcases, visually, Super Probo.edge mentioned, so SNEs bit of an unknown to myself on many games, hence 'throwing' topic on mercy of the forum.

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thevulture
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by thevulture » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:20 pm

:lol: I did find the control pad a bit 'sh*t' mind.Felt far too light for my hands.

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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by adippm82 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:23 pm

From my own viewpoint it is another rather stupid Edge article reminding me why I have ignored the mag for years.

I bought the SNES on day of release along with Super Mario World, F-Zero and Super tennis, brilliant games all of them, it was a few weeks before any more games appeared, then I got Super R-Type, loved it despite the slowdown, I already had enough fun from the console to make it worthwhile, another wait later and Wrestlemania and Super Castlevania IV kept me glued to the console, then Actraiser, Super Ghouls n Ghosts, Contra 3, Top Gear, Legend of Zelda 3, the games just kept coming, right through the consoles life, I keep thinking of more, the Super Star Wars series, Doom, Equinoxe, the Donkey Kong games, Super Adventure Island, Turtles IV, and Tournament Fighters, R-type III, Alien 3, makes me want to turn it on right now.

To say no-one got to grips with it is nonsense, Konami for one produced one amazing game after another, as did Capcom, Cybernator, Axelay, Mystical Ninja, UN Squadron, Streetfighter 2.

I have over 70 games for the SNES, and rate them all, the only people that did deserve better, were the PAL SNES owning public as the machine was not the best, and we could have done with some more of the classic games the other territories got, I am thinking of Umihawa Kawase, Macross Scramble and Exhaust Heat 2, have a fully modded machine now to play these and more.

Not ever being a rapid fanboy in my collecting, I kept an eye on the Megadrive games and played them at mates houses, but I was so well catered for with the SNES, that it was a fair while before I added many Megadrive games to the collection, only doing so in recent years.

The Snes was amazing in my eyes, if the console had less than stellar games released for it, I would have bought more for other systems, the fact I only had a few titles at the time for the MD, and a nice but unsubstantial collection for the PC Engine spoke volumes of it.
Last edited by adippm82 on Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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ToxieDogg
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by ToxieDogg » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:25 pm

thevulture wrote:@toxie:This was Edge, issue 22.July 1995, N64 still known as 'Ultra 64'.Thing idea person of said 'piece' was aiming at was along lines of-Does'nt matter what hardware packed into console, if developers choose to ignore it's potential.

But then, this is EDGE we are talking about....
Yes, but my point was, if you look at the games I listed...developers didn't 'choose to ignore it's potential' at all, in fact in many cases they went above and beyond and required extra megs/chips just to add to what they'd already done.

The original article is, in my humble opinion, complete and utter tosh.
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by Shinobi » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:32 pm

Mean Machines alway said Snes was a lot better than the Megadrive. I collect for the Snes as it has my favourite genre the scrolling beat em ups.., I still kept the Megadrive games Super Shinobi 1 + 2, Shadow Dancer(favourite Game series ever), Streets of Rage 2 and Devil Hunter Yoko and the 6 bells, don't have a megadrive keep meaning to PM Famicom about his..

Megadrive never had a RPG that came close to Squaresofts Snes RPG's possibly Shining Soul, same with scrolling Fighters Streets of Rage 2 is awesome but what else did they have 'Mystical Warriors' which I 1cc'ed on my second Credit.. They ruined the Pal version of SOR 3, Golden Axe was not as good as the Arcade and I still think Revenge of Death Adder should have been converted.. Golden Axe 2 - 3 and are good

Alien Storm and Eswat nowhere near as good as the arcade versions and I think Sega ruined Megadrive Eswat.. Then again the Snes has nothing that compares to the Shinobi games, Twinkle Tale and Elemtal Master - and Megadrive Snow Brothers is arcade better and actually think it's a better game then all the Mario games!! In all fairness I never liked any of Shiggsys Snes games..

Again compare say the Megadrive and Snes Mortal Kombat 2 Snes version is miles better.. Still think King of Demons had really good use of Mode 7 and an adult game to boot, those Dog Men beating the woman to death in the intro..

Toxie probably in the next edge it will be a feature whats the best Pad to use, or whats better Tea or Coffee
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The Laird
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by The Laird » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:37 pm

The SNES was pushed as far as it possibly could be throughout its commercial life so I fail to see what else could have been done with it.

The system was crippled by a sh1te CPU and 8-bit bus so was never going to be able to do certain things anyway without hardware assistance.

I read a great quote from Treasure once where they basically said that because the Megadrive's CPU was over twice as a fast and it had a 16-bit bus it could basically fake any hardware effects the SNES could do in software and still be quicker. I think EA made a similar statement in regards to porting Road Rash to the SNES.

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crusto
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by crusto » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:01 pm

Jagfest_UK wrote:The SNES was pushed as far as it possibly could be throughout its commercial life so I fail to see what else could have been done with it.

The system was crippled by a sh1te CPU and 8-bit bus so was never going to be able to do certain things anyway without hardware assistance.

I read a great quote from Treasure once where they basically said that because the Megadrive's CPU was over twice as a fast and it had a 16-bit bus it could basically fake any hardware effects the SNES could do in software and still be quicker. I think EA made a similar statement in regards to porting Road Rash to the SNES.
If thats the case then Its a shame that software houses didnt do so more often. I dont know whether this game in particular is an example of such clever programming, but I was genuinely shocked when I saw Vector Man up and running for the first time. If I didnt know any better I would have mistaken it for a snes game, until I heard the sound of course!
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