Did the SNES deserve better?

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thevulture
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by thevulture » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:23 pm

Also, in said issue of ACE-Talk of new hardware, seemingly everywhere:

PC Engine, Megadrive, SAM Coupe, Konix Multisystem, CPS (Arcade), Interactive Video Tape, CDi, FM Towns and Atari Lynx, all get a mention or coverage of some form and that's in a single issue.

I'd forgotten just how many formats were being talked about in the multi-format mags of that era.

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storm_maker
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by storm_maker » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:23 am

BTW Vulture, did you hear much about Pier Solar? an RPG released for Mega Drive in 2010 -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG4V_kLL0NI
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thevulture
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by thevulture » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:32 am

storm_maker wrote:BTW Vulture, did you hear much about Pier Solar? an RPG released for Mega Drive in 2010 -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG4V_kLL0NI
:oops: I'd heard it was an RPG being released, so stupidly just assumed it'd be the usual twee sprites fare-how wrong i was, that looks bloody superb.Very much appreciate the link.

HEAVYface
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by HEAVYface » Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:26 pm

storm_maker wrote:
thevulture wrote:With regards to Axelay, was always under the impression the overhead stages used Mode 7 to create depth of field/ pseudo 3D backdrops, but this only down to what i'd previousily read
Yeah, most people tend to take that for granted as Mode 7 (myself included originally)

Mode 7 can't have two overlapping backgrounds, and Mode 7 doesn't effect sprites either, so it can't be Mode 7, its just a scrolling effect.
thevulture wrote:Presume SNES colour palette helped with Axelay's visuals somewhat.
Yup, probably

Also, whilst the main level effect doesn't use Mode 7, I think a couple of the boss fights might have.
thevulture wrote:'The Edge View piece did make note that Mode 7 only 'turned up' in racing games or multi-limbed boss encounters, or so it seemed, so person who wrote it, seemed to want more to be done with it in games, but unsure of exactly what it was best designed for.
Sounds more like the guy doesn't really understand Mode 7, as it wasn't used on multi-limbed bosses anyway (as has been said, it only effects the background.

In SNES games, when they wanted to make a boss rotate or scale they drew the boss onto the background itself, and blacked out the background all around it, then made the floor out of sprites.

This boss fight is a good example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COHHEMVIXE8&t=3m20s

Koopa is drawn onto the background, around him has been painted black (if there was a background it would rotate and spin every time Koopa does), I believe the floor is made out of sprites.
yep, i've written on here before that i don't think axelay uses mode 7 for the backgrounds, because you can see the banding on the screen where the background pixels are 'unsquashed' as they scroll down the screen. to me it looks like the same sort of thing as the wavy fire effects in thunderforce 3.
heres and interesting video....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-YSnIDsz5U

shows a tech demo of Axelay running on a pc engine super graphix (skip to around the 10:30 mark)

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SIR'86
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by SIR'86 » Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:54 pm

I think one of the issues facing developers with the SNES back then was the high cost of the cartridges.

Several games I worked on started off as 8mbit carts, but due to reasons had to be cut down to 4mbit carts because the 8mbit ones were so expensive to buy from Nintendo. Adding a DSP (like in Mario cart), battery backup, or most of all a Super FX chip all increased the cost to publishers tremendously.

Nintendo of course, owned the production process so they didn't suffer from the same budgetary restrictions on cartridge features, so their games tended to make more use of bigger carts, battery backup and add-in chips.

mandelbrot78
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by mandelbrot78 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:16 am

thevulture wrote:@toxie:This was Edge, issue 22.July 1995, N64 still known as 'Ultra 64'.Thing idea person of said 'piece' was aiming at was along lines of-Does'nt matter what hardware packed into console, if developers choose to ignore it's potential.
The article reflects more on the consensus of the gaming community at the time rather than the merits of the SNES game library. In '95 I wouldn't touch a 2D game with a 10 foot pole. Once I got the Playstation and an Uber-PC of the time I gave away my MD and SNES and never looked back (until I became a Retro gamer that is...).

Having said that, there was a distinct lack of innovation in the 16 bit console era and a ton of derivative platformers. But still the SNES had a really good library with lots of gems, some extremely successful, some less known.

CaptainN
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by CaptainN » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:34 pm

The Snes got exactly what it deserved. A fantastic library full of iconic classic games and a legacy as one of the greatest home consoles ever :D

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DreamcastRIP
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by DreamcastRIP » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:15 am

CaptainN wrote:The Snes got exactly what it deserved.
Hard to disagree with that opinion.
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shiftytigger
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by shiftytigger » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:36 am

Its very easy to say any console deserved better in hindsight. I would say the Megadrive deserved better but also still got a great library of games. The snes fared better for Rpg's but they already had a reasonable history on Nintendo formats anyway. Megadrive did well with arcade type games , relative to its own history.
Both still great consoles with plenty to shout about.
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CaptainN
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by CaptainN » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:41 am

DreamcastRIP wrote:
CaptainN wrote:The Snes got exactly what it deserved.
Hard to disagree with that opinion.

Glad you agree that iuts one of the greratest consoles ever.

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DreamcastRIP
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by DreamcastRIP » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:45 am

CaptainN wrote:
DreamcastRIP wrote:
CaptainN wrote:The Snes got exactly what it deserved.
Hard to disagree with that opinion.

Glad you agree that iuts one of the greratest consoles ever.
Nice try! :lol:
Own: Jaguar JaguarCD Lynx 7800 Dreamcast Saturn MegaDrive MegaCD 32X Nomad GameGear PS3 PS PSP WiiU Wii GameCube N64 DS GBm GBA GBC GBP GB Virtual Boy Xbox Vectrex PCE Duo-R 3DO CDi CD32 GX4000 WonderSwan NGPC Gizmondo ColecoVision iPhone PC Mac

CaptainN
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by CaptainN » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:49 am

[

Glad you agree that iuts one of the greratest consoles ever.[/quote]
Nice try! :lol:[/quote]

No you agreed with my statement, only quoting half of it makes no difference.

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Matt_B
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by Matt_B » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:50 am

The SNES simply wasn't designed for 3D games. Sure, there is mode 7, but it's purely a background layer effect and there's no built in support for scaling and rotation; that was only achieved by including custom chips in the cartridges, which pushed up prices and created significant barriers for development.

That's not to say that the Megadrive was much better equipped, but at least it had a more powerful CPU and could handle ports of some ST/Amiga games.

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DreamcastRIP
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by DreamcastRIP » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:06 am

CaptainN wrote:No you agreed with my statement, only quoting half of it makes no difference.
Whatever ever makes you happy.
Own: Jaguar JaguarCD Lynx 7800 Dreamcast Saturn MegaDrive MegaCD 32X Nomad GameGear PS3 PS PSP WiiU Wii GameCube N64 DS GBm GBA GBC GBP GB Virtual Boy Xbox Vectrex PCE Duo-R 3DO CDi CD32 GX4000 WonderSwan NGPC Gizmondo ColecoVision iPhone PC Mac

CaptainN
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Re: Did the SNES deserve better?

Post by CaptainN » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:10 am

DreamcastRIP wrote:
CaptainN wrote:No you agreed with my statement, only quoting half of it makes no difference.
Whatever ever makes you happy.
Yes it does, Let it officially be know that DCrip has denounced the satannic worshipping of Jagfest and shook of his brainwashing and finally found an opinion he can call his own.

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