GAME exits Administration

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ToxieDogg
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Re: GAME files for Administration

Post by ToxieDogg » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:51 pm

FatTrucker wrote:Re: storage issues, this has by and large already been solved with the movement toward cloud type solutions, as with hard copies of software, in future there will be less and less requirement for local hardware storage.
Not really great for customers though, is it? What if your cloud storage system simply gets turned off, Megaupload-stylee? Bye bye all of your storage. I don't think a lot of people are suddenly going to be happy moving their whole games collection to something like that. And it's still not going to be unlimited or free.
FatTrucker wrote:Regarding authorised devices, most services that work this way already support a limited number of authorised devices per account, however when adding a new device you simply have to deauthorise an old one.
That's the probblem though, having to deactivate an older device before a newer one can be used (which can be a fiddly, time consuming, pain in the posterior), thereby limiting the devices you can use your paid for content on. I can understand they don't want multiple people using something that only one person has paid for, be even so...
FatTrucker wrote:They really have got all the bases covered and all the infrastructure in place for a future based on digitally owned content where they, sell, store, and retain all of it, with users ability to access it determined by an account.
Virtually pirate proof, no onward secondhand market and they have complete control over what you can buy, how much it costs and how long it's avaialble (and still usable) for.

This gen could realistically represent the last generation of consoles for which there will be secondhand market.
Possibly. It'll be interesting to see how the collapse of the main high street retailer affects things. Joe Public is pretty unpredictible at times. We might well see the masses embrace digital downloads, or the first main digital download only console might be a disaster of epic proportions like the PSP GO. I'd imagine that Sony, Microsoft and (especially) Nintendo are still a little reluctant to go quite that far just yet.
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Re: GAME files for Administration

Post by killbot » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:05 pm

I think the GO was the litmus test - phone gamers may be happy with a wholly digital system but the GO was the first test as to whether 'hardcore' gamers would embrace a download only model and it failed miserably. That being the case I think any company that was actively thinking of going download-only with their next home console will have been given pause for thought.

The thing is, Live Arcade, WiiWare and PSN have played host to some excellent games but they've tended to be relatively cheap, throwaway titles. I see those services as providing a similar service to the PD libraries that existed in the days of the Amiga, producing some innovative and enjoyable indie titles but not much you'd stick your hand in your pocket for if it was £40 on a disc. Would people buy the latest Assassin's Creed, Halo or Zelda that way? I suppose GTAV will go some way toward answering that question.
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FatTrucker
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Re: GAME files for Administration

Post by FatTrucker » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:14 pm

ToxieDogg wrote: Not really great for customers though, is it? What if your cloud storage system simply gets turned off, Megaupload-stylee? Bye bye all of your storage. I don't think a lot of people are suddenly going to be happy moving their whole games collection to something like that. And it's still not going to be unlimited or free.
I'm not necessarily advocating it, but its definitely the way the future is being rolled out. Convergent technology where you access all of your content and services from single user account. Social Media, email, games and everything else all linked to a single user account with all the data stored online and accessible from whichever device you're using.

ToxieDogg wrote: That's the probblem though, having to deactivate an older device before a newer one can be used (which can be a fiddly, time consuming, pain in the posterior), thereby limiting the devices you can use your paid for content on. I can understand they don't want multiple people using something that only one person has paid for, be even so...
Its incredibly simple in reality, you sign in to your account, it lists your authorised devices and you click the one you want to de-authorise, then simply sign in with your new one. Xbox Live, Sky and Apple all use this method and it takes no time or messing about at all and its all instantaneous. Its unlikely many people will want more than 5 devices to be able to access their account simulataneously so you can have a handheld, a console, a smartphone, a tablet and a PC all active at the same time and when you replace one you simply de-authorise the old one, its not like you continually have to switch device authorisations on the fly on a daily basis.

They want people to embrace this so they're going out of their way to make it as user friendly as possible. A few years down the line once its all widely adopted, certainly in the case of cloud storage I don't doubt there will be talk of server costs, storage costs and the inevitable introduction of subscriptions based on the amount of storage people want to retain.
ToxieDogg wrote: Possibly. It'll be interesting to see how the collapse of the main high street retailer affects things. Joe Public is pretty unpredictible at times. We might well see the masses embrace digital downloads, or the first main digital download only console might be a disaster of epic proportions like the PSP GO. I'd imagine that Sony, Microsoft and (especially) Nintendo are still a little reluctant to go quite that far just yet.
I'm fairly sure next gen will be the transitional period. I'm sure they'll all come with conventional storage media and over their lifespan it will be slowly phased out until at the end its more or less download only and the gen after that will be dedicated boxes geared for online content. There were all sorts of reasons that PSP Go failed none of which really apply to the current market or what they're doing with it.
Again the tale of the Ipad, Iphone and Ipod and all the other smartphone/tablets that have followed in their wake (not to mention the increasing popularity of portals like XBL and PSN) would indicate that the market is not only ready to go digital but that anyone not capitalising soon may well miss the boat entirely.

I spend more money and play more games from places like XBL than I do at retail nowadays. In the case of original 360 games, sometimes they will be £5 or so more expensive than in a shop but then they don't have the associated costs with going to the shop to buy it so it works out about even. I actually like the fact that I can sit on the sofa, controller in hand and access an entire library of games rather than having to disk swap etc, I can download demo's, try before I buy and browse any DLC.
Obviously I'll be less enamoured when the 360 finally dies after the new gen machine is launched and I find that I've lost everything I purchased online for the 360 forever because none of it works on the new system and the old 360 servers are not there anymore so I have no way to re-download the old content on another machine. But then that's kind of the thing they're going for. No pre-owned, no secondhand, no physical ownership.

I have what has to be one of the sh*ttest internet connections in the country (1Mb when the winds blowing right) and I can download a full sized 360 game in around 6 or 7 hours on a normal day and in less than 12 hours when its slow. Almost as fast as a normal day at the shops and a lot faster than ordering from an online shop so the timeframes involved really aren't an issue, particularly for the 70% or so of people who have access to Fibre, Cable or at least reasonable ADSL who can do several GB in less than 2 or 3 hours. The 360 will also download while its switched off so I can order a full sized game in the evening and its there ready and waiting when I get up the next morning or before I leave for work and its ready to play when I get home.

There are lots of advantages in terms of accessibility, but there are pretty much parallel disadvantages in terms of value. Although I suppose that it can be argued, even physical media doesn't last forever. Just ask anyone who's still trying to make regular use of tape, disk or early CD based media from the 80's and early 90's, how they're holding up these days.
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thevulture
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Re: GAME files for Administration

Post by thevulture » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:15 pm

Thing to bear in mind when using the PSP GO as a benchmark for how public responded to a download only machine:

It was nothing more than yet another hardware revision of a portable console, that a large % of folk had previousily only bought due to ease of piracy/CFW etc.

If, like myself, you were 'happy' to buy original games, you could buy a Phat, Slim or 3000 model, get the UMD games not avaiable digitally and still buy digital games off PSN.Options existed.

IF MS decide thier 4th generation hardware, or (Sony with PS5), won't use any form of physical media, no discs, no carts, cards, whatever, then consumers going to be faced with 2 stark choices (until piracy hits system).Either bite the bullet and buy machine knowing your only route to get the games is via specific download service or not buy the hardware at all.

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thevulture
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Re: GAME files for Administration

Post by thevulture » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:21 pm

look at this way:Map packs for FPS used to be free, then cue the 360, MS told developers everything had to have a MS points price on it.Has it stopped folks buying map packs for COD/MW? hell no...people buy it in droves.

Exp.packs used to come on physical formats, either exp.disc or stand alone release (i bought exp.disc for original COD on PC, Doom 3 exp.on Xbox, mate bought Halo 2 map packs on Xbox on disc etc, nowadays it's released as (often) day 1 DLC.Again people buying it in droves-if they were'nt, developers/publishers would'nt be creating it.

Market continues to be very 'fluid'.Lot of eyes watching what competition does, our online play and purchases monitored, all the data being sent back, shaping way future games are designed and delivered.

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Re: GAME files for Administration

Post by Mayhem » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:41 pm

thevulture wrote:look at this way:Map packs for FPS used to be free, then cue the 360, MS told developers everything had to have a MS points price on it.Has it stopped folks buying map packs for COD/MW? hell no...people buy it in droves.
That isn't strictly true to my knowledge. It has to be paid for content if there's new achievements. No achievements? Then it can be released for free if you choose.
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thevulture
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Re: GAME files for Administration

Post by thevulture » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:49 pm

Gamestm (i think, without looking through my collection) was 1st i read of, to report it, then Valve, now this from Witcher 2 developer:

“All DLC for the PC version is and will remain FREE,” said development director Adam Badowski. “That’s not likely to be the story for the Xbox version, because of certain Microsoft policies that need to be followed. But on PC, once you buy our game, you don’t need to worry about any additional costs – we will provide all updates, including those featuring new content, for free.”

MS policy is 360 DLC must have a price attached to it.

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thevulture
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Re: GAME files for Administration

Post by thevulture » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:52 pm

And here again:

Stranger’s Dream won’t cost a dime on PC, but you’ll have to pay $1 on Xbox Live, as Microsoft has some very strange, inconsistent policies when it comes to offering free content on its service. Supergiant Games alluded to wanting to make the content free in its announcement post.

“The Stranger’s Dream DLC will be available for 80 Microsoft Points ($1) on XBLA, which we can’t make free due to Microsoft policy, so it’s about as close as we could get,” said the company. “Though, since you’ll be getting a good chunk of new content, we think you’ll be satisfied with your purchase.”

So even if it's a bare bones price, it has to have a price tag attached.

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Re: GAME files for Administration

Post by thevulture » Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:35 pm

'Valve's Chet Faliszek has told Eurogamer that upcoming downloadable Left 4 Dead 1 expansion Crash Course costs money on Xbox Live because Microsoft insisted upon it.

The Washington-based developer traditionally refuses to charge for DLC - as Robin Walker put it when we asked in May 2007, "You buy the product, you get the content" - and this explains why it's free on PC.

"We own our platform, Steam. Microsoft owns their platform. They wanted to make sure there's an economy of value there," Faliszek told Eurogamer today when asked about the 560 Microsoft Points (£4.76 / €6.72) price tag for Crash Course.

When pressed about whether Microsoft effectively enforced the pricing, Faliszek added: "Well, they helped us get the first one out for free. We had the one DLC out for free. And I think... they have to look and say, wow, we're kind of being unfair to everybody else if these guys can do that.'

:wink: Gotta love MS at times......

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Re: GAME files for Administration

Post by DigitalDuck » Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:41 pm

Did it really warrant three posts?

Also, I'm fairly certain Burnout Paradise had a large amount of DLC available for free.
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thevulture
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Re: GAME files for Administration

Post by thevulture » Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:47 pm

DigitalDuck wrote:Did it really warrant three posts?

Also, I'm fairly certain Burnout Paradise had a large amount of DLC available for free.
Using PS3 browser so limited to what i can fit in single post, plus i thought i'd give Mayhem's post a balanced reply.3 developers giving clearer insight, rather than: Blah Blah said in it's article.

As the Valve post stated:MS allowed them 1 'freebie' before changing tact:

When pressed about whether Microsoft effectively enforced the pricing, Faliszek added: "Well, they helped us get the first one out for free. We had the one DLC out for free. And I think... they have to look and say, wow, we're kind of being unfair to everybody else if these guys can do that.'

:? That's 4 posts on it now-and if we're keeping count:Does Game going under 'warrant' 3 seperate threads active at the moment?.

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Re: GAME files for Administration

Post by resident paul » Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:51 pm

thevulture wrote:
DigitalDuck wrote:Did it really warrant three posts?

Also, I'm fairly certain Burnout Paradise had a large amount of DLC available for free.
Using PS3 browser so limited to what i can fit in single post, plus i thought i'd give Mayhem's post a balanced reply.3 developers giving clearer insight, rather than: Blah Blah said in it's article.

As the Valve post stated:MS allowed them 1 'freebie' before changing tact:

When pressed about whether Microsoft effectively enforced the pricing, Faliszek added: "Well, they helped us get the first one out for free. We had the one DLC out for free. And I think... they have to look and say, wow, we're kind of being unfair to everybody else if these guys can do that.'

:? That's 4 posts on it now-and if we're keeping count:Does Game going under 'warrant' 3 seperate threads active at the moment?.
Your right about the PS3 browser it is very limited how much text you can put in the box & weren't that long ago you couldn't steam much videos as I can now!
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Re: GAME files for Administration

Post by thevulture » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:00 pm

Cheers resident paul, nice to know i'm not the only 1 finding the browser restrictive.Would use my ipad, but lot of times i'll pop over here after gaming on PS3 or whilst playing music from PS3 HDD etc.

Not trying to get my post count up, just thought Mayhem (who my post's were aimed at), might like to see it from a developers point of view, if not...no worries, just scroll past, nothing to see here etc.

As for Burnout:Paradise, yep, early DLC (new modes, new cars and motorcycles), was free, but then it was free on both PS3 and 360, so MS could hardly be seen to be playing fair if they set say an 80 MS points price for what PS3 owners had for free andBig Surf Island was originally slated to be a free piece of DLC, but later became paid for on both formats as it became bigger than designers originally planned.

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Re: GAME files for Administration

Post by thevulture » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:32 am

'As GAME fights for its future, new sales data released today highlights the shift in how we buy games in the UK.

GAME Group has faced a difficult 12 months as strong competition from online shops, including Amazon and Play, and supermarkets, has made its mark. Game publishers and even game makers now sell games digitally direct to consumers, with the likes of Valve's Steam and EA's Origin hugely successful.

And then there is the rise of mobile and tablet gaming, a market GAME isn't involved with.

Now, new data published by the Entertainment Retail Association shows just how important online and digital sales have become.

According to data from Chart-Track and Screen Digest, UK digital sales of games were worth £504 million in 2011 compared with digital music sales of £333m and digital video sales of £97 million. Online and mobile delivery accounts for 26 per cent of games.'

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Re: GAME files for Administration

Post by thevulture » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:35 am

'Kim Bayley, Director General of ERA, said: "Online and mobile are doing very well, and this reflects the huge investment, much of it by retailers, in producing new products and services. Physical formats still account for the vast majority of entertainment sales - 80 per cent of albums are still sold on CD - but lack of investment and innovation in physical product means it is increasingly under pressure."

Growing sales of online and mobile downloads have combined with surging sales by home delivery services led by Amazon to put pressure on physical store outlets, the ERA said.

Digital and physical product bought online or via mobile now accounts for 45 per cent of the games market.'

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