Gradius V

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the_hawk
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Re: Gradius V

Post by the_hawk » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:33 pm

A brilliant game.

TwoHeaddedBoy kindly lent me it a while back & I had a lot of fun playing it indeed.
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Misery
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Re: Gradius V

Post by Misery » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:35 pm

I've honestly never, ever seen the appeal of this particular shmup or why it's so popular. I personally cant stand it. It's one of the only shmups I've ever sold off. I did at least 1cc it before getting rid of it though.

I dunno though, Treasure's shmups do that to me. Cant stand Ikaruga or RSG either.

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Re: Gradius V

Post by mrmarvelxiii » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:42 am

Loved the game but it seriously owned me, only getting to about stage 4 I think. It was my first ever Shmup mind you, so perhaps I don't completely suck. Can't wait to try Ikaruga one day. Treasure rocks!
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crusto
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Re: Gradius V

Post by crusto » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:46 pm

Misery wrote:I've honestly never, ever seen the appeal of this particular shmup or why it's so popular. I personally cant stand it. It's one of the only shmups I've ever sold off. I did at least 1cc it before getting rid of it though.

I dunno though, Treasure's shmups do that to me. Cant stand Ikaruga or RSG either.
You can 1cc Gradius V? You make it sound like you didnt even practice, did it, didnt like it, got rid. Hmmm, even on easy this game is tough. Are you some sort of shmup genius?
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Misery
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Re: Gradius V

Post by Misery » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:02 pm

crusto wrote:
Misery wrote:I've honestly never, ever seen the appeal of this particular shmup or why it's so popular. I personally cant stand it. It's one of the only shmups I've ever sold off. I did at least 1cc it before getting rid of it though.

I dunno though, Treasure's shmups do that to me. Cant stand Ikaruga or RSG either.
You can 1cc Gradius V? You make it sound like you didnt even practice, did it, didnt like it, got rid. Hmmm, even on easy this game is tough. Are you some sort of shmup genius?
I'm used to games being a good bit harder than Gradius V is. Beating Mushihime-sama on Ultra (after lots and lots and lots of angry shrieking) is my best accomplishment, as shmups go. It's one of the 2 or 3 genres I play REALLY often.

I remember I gave that game (Gradius V) a good week or so of constant play, because.... because.... oh I have no idea. I do very distinctly remember the final section though.... I didnt care for the game overmuch, but I'll give them that the final bit was kinda memorable, at least by my book. If you get there, you'll likely see what I mean.

And it wouldnt have taken as much practice as some other games because I wouldnt have been playing for score whatsoever. I'm MUCH more likely to get far or 1cc something if I'm not trying too hard to score points. When I AM trying to score I'll do bloody stupid things like ram bosses, or something like that. I've lost count of how many times exactly I've rammed the first boss in Ketsui.


Either way though, once I'd finished it that was it, there wasnt anything else I really cared to do in it, so I traded it off.

It's not a BAD game... I wouldnt say that, well, wouldnt say that about Ikaruga or RSG either... but for whatever reason it just REALLY ANNOYS ME. It's very hard to say why. I'm not sure entirely what it is about Treasure shmups that do this to me, particularly when I just loooove some of their other games, like the absolutely brilliant Gunstar Heroes.

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crusto
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Re: Gradius V

Post by crusto » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:53 am

I tip my hat to you good sir :) . 1cc after about a week is a fine accomplishment. Me? im on easy skill level, have built up to 6 credits and can get to the latter part of stage 3, where a spider like boss pursues you around the level. Most of the time something gets me which I simply didnt see, my mince pies are not what they once were!

I will keep practicing...
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Misery
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Re: Gradius V

Post by Misery » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:13 am

crusto wrote:I tip my hat to you good sir :) . 1cc after about a week is a fine accomplishment. Me? im on easy skill level, have built up to 6 credits and can get to the latter part of stage 3, where a spider like boss pursues you around the level. Most of the time something gets me which I simply didnt see, my mince pies are not what they once were!''

I will keep practicing...

Just wait till the later levels.

Stage 6 in particular. I think that's the one that just IRKED me the most.

There's the "acid" section... you'll know THAT when you see it... which is annoying enough in and of itself... but then there's the BACKWARDS section.

Hint, bring SOME sort of weapon that can fire backwards (or Options that you can hold behind you at least somewhat). I seem to remember one specific spot where there are things in the way, as you are flying backwards, and you HAVE to destroy at least a couple of them to move forward (er, backward...) without crashing. The game though does not tell you any of this... and of course if you've just respawned and have no weapons, you *will* die here. That type of design... I never liked it. There's a couple of spots like that in the game, the "you sorta have to know about it in advance to pass it" bits. Other games in the series have done this as well though, it's not just a Treasure thing.

This is all after the annoying of stage 5, which is asteroid hell.

In all honesty I just dont really have the patience for the Gradius games half of the time. They're not BAD, just... feh, not as good as I used to think they were.

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AlleyKat
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Re: Gradius V

Post by AlleyKat » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:17 pm

Misery wrote: Stage 6 in particular. I think that's the one that just IRKED me the most.

There's the "acid" section... you'll know THAT when you see it... which is annoying enough in and of itself... but then there's the BACKWARDS section...

...In all honesty I just dont really have the patience for the Gradius games half of the time. They're not BAD, just... feh, not as good as I used to think they were.
I didnt enjoy the acid/gas bits at all, I'm pretty sure thats as far as I got on 1c (on easy, admittedly). I think the game would've been better if the devs had dropped level 6 and, given how overlong it is, divided the first stage into two levels. I just always found that one game of GV would be enough in a session- its just too much of a slog, as I mentioned earlier.

For me, Gaiden and ReBirth are far more balanced and snappier Gradius updates. And they both have Maoi levels, which was something 5 lacked.
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Misery
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Re: Gradius V

Post by Misery » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:27 pm

AlleyKat wrote:
Misery wrote: Stage 6 in particular. I think that's the one that just IRKED me the most.

There's the "acid" section... you'll know THAT when you see it... which is annoying enough in and of itself... but then there's the BACKWARDS section...

...In all honesty I just dont really have the patience for the Gradius games half of the time. They're not BAD, just... feh, not as good as I used to think they were.
I didnt enjoy the acid/gas bits at all, I'm pretty sure thats as far as I got on 1c (on easy, admittedly). I think the game would've been better if it'd dropped level 6 and, given how overlong it is, divided the first stage into two levels. I just always found that one game of GV would be enough in a session- its just too much of a slog, as I mentioned earlier.

For me, Gaiden and ReBirth are more balanced and snappier Gradius updates. And they both have Maoi levels, which was something 5 lacked.
While I'm not a huge fan of the Gradius series in general, I have to say I agree with this.

Stage 6 was a mistake indeed (and believe me, it's even MORE obnoxious on the default difficult as opposed to Easy)... though the second boss parade, which I *believe* comes right after that, was pretty cool... but the stage itself was bloody awful. It's not the worst shmup level I can think of... that distinction goes to Futari's first stage for a number of reasons... but it's definitely up there in terms of suckage.

Stage 5 is ANNOYING, but at least annoying is ALL it is. You do not, for instance, need to know to bring backwards-capable weaponry in advance, or something like that.

And yeah, the game is too long. Alot of shmups tend to be right around 5 levels, and many of them hit pretty much the same length...any more and they become too long, and any less and they're too short. Kinda hard to get it exactly right, I think, with this genre.

....and just like other Gradius titles, there really is no real final boss. You get to the end, the final section after stage 7, go through what is actually a very cool section, and then you.... well, I wont spoil it for those that havent gotten there... it's a cool scene, actually... but there's no boss at the very end. That part always kinda bothered me. Shmups SHOULD contain epic boss fights at the end!

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Re: Gradius V

Post by nakamura » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:33 pm

I find most shooters are miles too short now. That is part of the reason that bullet hell genre bores me. I want more variety and longevity in the gameplay first, then the score chasing.
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Misery
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Re: Gradius V

Post by Misery » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:13 pm

nakamura wrote:I find most shooters are miles too short now. That is part of the reason that bullet hell genre bores me. I want more variety and longevity in the gameplay first, then the score chasing.
Direct opposite for me.

A longer game means it takes that much longer to make a run at it... and often I prefer to get in multiple runs in one go for practice.

Even alot of danmakus are a bit on the long side. Particularly Cave's games... you'll have 4 normal-ish sized levels, and then one REALLY LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG one that's more like 2 or three levels in length (Akai Katana is the main one that comes to mind. A full run takes bloody forever. 6 stages, the last 2 of which are LOOOOOOOONG, and then a 7th "stage" which is the end boss. Deathsmiles ALSO takes bloody forever. The final area just keeps going... and going.... and going... and going... and going...) Not to mention that even when you beat them... you may not have BEAT them. Something like Dodonpachi or Ketsui cant be completely beaten unless you defeat BOTH loops and access the true final boss. Never been a fan of the whole "loop" idea, myself.

In some cases longer also means it takes longer to get INTERESTING, which I definitely found was the case with Gradius V. It didnt really get all that challenging for me till stage 5. Stages 1 and 2 in particular were boring, could have done without them entirely.


Though in reality I dont care TOO much how long the shmup is... I usually just want two things: 1, challenge/difficulty, and 2, a scoring system that does not blow. There are plenty of "traditional" shmups that I definitely enjoy.... Alpha Mission 1 and 2, Gaiares, the entire Star Soldier series, and various others... but I'll usually do more of the danmakus as a rule because the scoring can get really interesting. Whereas those, they HAVE scoring, but it's pretty mindless.

EDIT: That, and when I think about it, the danmakus tend to have alternate modes... that's another appeal for me. ...why dont more traditional shmups have that? When I think about it, it's kinda odd. A shmup doesnt HAVE to be a danmaku to have more than one game mode, it's not like there's a law of programming that says so...

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Re: Gradius V

Post by AlleyKat » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:21 pm

Misery wrote: ....You get to the end, the final section after stage 7, go through what is actually a very cool section, and then you.... well, I wont spoil it for those that havent gotten there... it's a cool scene, actually... but there's no boss at the very end.
I think I know of the scene you refer to -very cool idea and makes the fan service cutscene & sequence early in the game make sense.
nakamura wrote:I find most shooters are miles too short now. That is part of the reason that bullet hell genre bores me. I want more variety and longevity in the gameplay first, then the score chasing.
Havent arcade shooters always tended towards 5-6 levels that you can see the back of in a 30-40 minute session if played from start to finish? Surely its the score chasing and its subtleties that provide the longevity. And maybe varied power ups, which to be fair, you dont tend to get in bullet hell.

I suspect (having not completed it) that Gradius 5 pushes an hour from start to finish, which is just faaar too long when taken with that drawn out first level. As FMM mentioned earlier, its partly a matter of stamina.
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Re: Gradius V

Post by weakboson » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:00 pm

1CC of Gradius V in a week is pretty impressive. To be honest I never got far enough for the length to be an issue but it does put me off coming back to it. For me 25-30 minutes is ideal. You're in the thick of the action sooner but also if you need to restart then it's not such a big deal. I generally like how Cave games are paced. The overall length is usually just right and a ridiculously long final stage makes it all the more epic. Gradius V seems over the top. I think even two loops of DDP ends up being shorter. Part of me wants to get back into this game, but it's funny Misery should mention the backwards scrolling section because that was what made give up on it on the first place. I was just trying to unlock all the stages but my skills should have improved since. That said I should probably wait until I can 1CC Sexy Parodius.

Also I know exactly what I don't like about Ikaruga and Radiant Silvergun: the scoring system means you have to wait to kill enemies and leave them swarming around on the screen while you pick at them to keep your chain. It was always too much for my brain to handle, I just wanted to shoot everything. I keep toying with the idea of coming back to Ikaruga because the polarity mechanic is cool, but sadly there's no way to avoid chaining in RSG. My favourite Treasure shmup is actually Sin and Punishment 2, that game is ace, though it takes the biscuit for length - 3 hours for an ALL score!

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Edwards80
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Re: Gradius V

Post by Edwards80 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:29 pm

Gradius V was why I picked up a PS2 :) It is also the reason I couldn't get on the PS2 due to the missus playing it all the time.

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Re: Gradius V

Post by SJ_Sathanas » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:20 pm

On a good day I can reach stage 4 without a death. Actually, if I can finish the boss rush of stg2 without dying then I'm having a good day. I was never able to beat stg4 though. As I stated earlier, death at the point and it's basically game over.

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