The 8-bit GAME COMPARISON Thread

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oswald
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Post by oswald » Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:13 am

emkay wrote:VIC 2 cannot do midline changes neither use a sprite again at the same scanline.
Even if it (middline changes) was used, you wouldn't see it. On the A8 you can build up to 96 colours per scanline and you can see them.
visible midline changes:

Image

dynamically changing screenmode (!!) midline:

Image

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CraigGrannell
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Post by CraigGrannell » Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:39 am

[announcer]: And now back to our regular programme...
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Post by emkay » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:43 pm

oswald wrote:
emkay wrote:VIC 2 cannot do midline changes neither use a sprite again at the same scanline.
Even if it (middline changes) was used, you wouldn't see it. On the A8 you can build up to 96 colours per scanline and you can see them.
visible midline changes:

Image

dynamically changing screenmode (!!) midline:

Image


[yawn]

I know about the trick with the background. But colour RAM cannot be read midline. Also the Sprite shapes cannot be changed there.
And, still have a look at the images... they only have 16 colours... alike, how much coding techniques you put in.


So the argues go round and round...
On the ATARI you can multiplex ALL GTIA registers, if the CPU speed allows. Which means: all Colours and all PMg and the colour overlays, as far as the cpu limits go. Only the Displaylist (the ANTIC DMA DATA) is fixed to the full scanline. And all this without any timing problems, which was the main cause for my "jump" into this thread again.

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SirClive
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Post by SirClive » Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:21 pm

Look, you have been asked nicely many times to stop going of onto a technical tangent. A tech comparison thread was set up for these discussions. If it continues then the posts will be deleted.
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oswald
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Post by oswald » Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:21 pm

SirClive, if you ask me you may delete all of it (including this one). I have taken it into the other thread.

MOD EDIT: He's talking about this one, folks: click here.

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Post by tssk » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:04 am

Zynaps : Back in the day I couldn't understand the praise this got. Even with my best Wico the inertia of the ship was rubbish. Why play this when a tape marked 'Uridium' is waiting nearby whispering 'pick me.'

The irony of course being that I've played this again on the C64 joystick. And a new playthrough made me think the same thing. 'I could just press reset and be playing Uridium in less than ten seconds.'

As for UN Squad' on the 64. I've never played it as it looked a bit weedy compared to it's SNES cousin. Given how well they did with the Amstrad and Speccy versions there's no excuse.

And again, if you have a C64 why play UN S when you could be playing Uridium?

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Post by Emperor Fossil » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:31 am

tssk wrote:Even with my best Wico the inertia of the ship was rubbish.
I'll say. I've never understood why some shmup developers feel the need to give the player's ship inertia. It's almost as if they're constrained by some idea of making it more 'realistic' but all it does is make the ship less responsive and hence the game less fun. At least I think so… maybe some people like it.

In zynaps, I can tolerate it if I stay at speed level 2 or lower. Anything above that, and it's just way too slippery for my liking. And even at the slow speeds, I'd still prefer no inertia.

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Post by Scapegoat » Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:19 am

tssk wrote:
And again, if you have a C64 why play any other game when you could be playing Uridium?
Fixed

Seriously, although later games were more advanced technically, Uridium and Paradroid were my pinnacle of gaming enjoyment on the C64 (and Zynaps was just bobbins).

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Post by CraigGrannell » Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:42 am

I never really understood the appeal of Uridium—it looks lovely, but it became so regimented: fly to the end of the ship, hang around for a bit and wait to land, repeat. Maybe someone should do a comparison of that game on the various platforms, though. (It was on Speccy, CPC, C64 and Apple II. There's also a NES port, named The Last Starfighter.)
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Post by oswald » Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:55 am

CraigGrannell wrote:I never really understood the appeal of Uridium—it looks lovely, but it became so regimented: fly to the end of the ship, hang around for a bit and wait to land, repeat.
but you did understand R-type appeal fex ? survive until boss, kill boss, repeat. ;) most of the 8 bit games plot could be written thats short. simply you dont like, but I dont see that can be backed up by, that your task iin the game is too simple.

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Post by CraigGrannell » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:17 am

There's a big difference in being engaged in a frantic struggle for survival and just doing the 8-bit digital space-oriented equivalent of hanging around a street corner until the pub opens.
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SirClive
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Post by SirClive » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:53 am

I'm with Craig on this one. It is just a memory test with a lot of dullness added in. I did get some fun out of the Speccy version when I was younger, but when we played it on the 64 in the retroleague I really didn't like it (which is nothing to do with the version as I went back to the Speccy and had the same disappointment).
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Post by Emperor Fossil » Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:03 am

Yup, I've never really taken to Uridium because of the way you have precious little time to react to obstacles, and I don't much like having to memorise the level layouts.

In addition, the way bi-directional shooters like Uridium (and Defender, and Dropzone) require your ship/guy to decelerate before changing direction and accelerating in the new direction means that you have significant inertia on the player, at least in relation to your horizontal movement, and as I've already mentioned, I'm no fan of inertia in shooters. Every time I try to play these kinds of bi-directional shooters, I feel like I can't dodge as well as I'd like. I'd be interested in seeing one that just did an instant speed/scroll reversal when you moved left and right, with none of this deceleration and acceleration malarkey.

oswald
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Post by oswald » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:37 am

SirClive wrote:I'm with Craig on this one. It is just a memory test with a lot of dullness added in. I did get some fun out of the Speccy version when I was younger, but when we played it on the 64 in the retroleague I really didn't like it (which is nothing to do with the version as I went back to the Speccy and had the same disappointment).
like in r-type it doesnt helps to memorize the attack waves / boss attack patterns :) dont think many people can beat r-type without that.

my point against craig is that its not only the plot that makes a game good or bad, r-type is just us repeating kill stuff/kill boss...

look at mario, rush to the left, jump on mushrooms, collect stuff, thats just as repeating ;)

fex. uridium was maximally frustrating for me back in the day but not because of the plot, I remember continuosly swearing when trying to get past the - already memorized, but that fuckn inertia- labyrinth parts.

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Post by paranoid marvin » Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:47 pm

Worst thing in Uridium for me was it could be a real pain in the arse landing
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