The 8-bit GAME COMPARISON Thread

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SirClive
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Post by SirClive » Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:15 pm

Well that is a very different comparison. Nice one :)
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Emperor Fossil
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Post by Emperor Fossil » Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:07 pm

TMR wrote:
Emperor Fossil wrote:Do you know if you can software multiplex alongside the hardware multiplex on the NES? eg: have 64 sprites in the top half of the screen, then a split, and 64 in the bottom half?
Might be possible with a memory mapping system of some kind, but considering the eight sprites per scanline limitation, odds are having 128 sprites in two zones will end up with more of them disappearing than displayed since they'll be so close together!
I see yeah. I was wondering how suitable the NES sprites were for large end of level baddies. Relying on the hardware mux, the boss would be limited to 128px high, so I was curious to see if that height could be extended to cover the remaining 96px of the screen height. But clearly the real problem is the small width of the sprites. If they are only 8px wide, then in a typical hori shmup I expect you'd need to reserve about 3 for the player ship and another 2 (at the least) for the player bullets, resulting in a boss that can only be 24px wide (assuming they want it flicker free). Mind you, I guess bullet flickering could be used, but that would probably be best employed in allowing more bullets.

I've noticed that a number of NES shmups I've tried do the trick of using bosses made out of background tiles placed on a plain black screen that the game then scrolls around to create the boss movement, so I'm guessing this width limitation on the sprites is the the main reason.
SirClive wrote:I give up.
But... but... It's not like there is any axe-grinding or arguing going on here. Are you saying that you simply dislike seeing any discussion of the technical details behind some of these comparisons? Sometimes it's fun to learn a bit of crap about how old games are made, regardless of how useless it may be in today's world.
Celebaglar wrote:OK, so let's break the trend and go for something different:
Heroes of Karn from Interceptor Micros. Illustrated text adventure by Ian Gray, released for C64, Spectrum and Amstrad CPC.
Nice one!! I've not played many adventures on the 8-bits and don't have time to explore them now, so I find it interesting to learn a bit about these games in the form of a review/comparison.

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Post by paranoid marvin » Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:25 pm

Emperor Fossil wrote:
TMR wrote:
Emperor Fossil wrote:Do you know if you can software multiplex alongside the hardware multiplex on the NES? eg: have 64 sprites in the top half of the screen, then a split, and 64 in the bottom half?
Might be possible with a memory mapping system of some kind, but considering the eight sprites per scanline limitation, odds are having 128 sprites in two zones will end up with more of them disappearing than displayed since they'll be so close together!
I see yeah. I was wondering how suitable the NES sprites were for large end of level baddies. Relying on the hardware mux, the boss would be limited to 128px high, so I was curious to see if that height could be extended to cover the remaining 96px of the screen height. But clearly the real problem is the small width of the sprites. If they are only 8px wide, then in a typical hori shmup I expect you'd need to reserve about 3 for the player ship and another 2 (at the least) for the player bullets, resulting in a boss that can only be 24px wide (assuming they want it flicker free). Mind you, I guess bullet flickering could be used, but that would probably be best employed in allowing more bullets.

I've noticed that a number of NES shmups I've tried do the trick of using bosses made out of background tiles placed on a plain black screen that the game then scrolls around to create the boss movement, so I'm guessing this width limitation on the sprites is the the main reason.
SirClive wrote:I give up.
But... but... It's not like there is any axe-grinding or arguing going on here. Are you saying that you just hate seeing any discussion of the technical details behind some of these comparisons? Sometimes it's fun to learn a bit of crap about how old games are made, regardless of how useless it may be in today's world.
Celebaglar wrote:OK, so let's break the trend and go for something different:
Heroes of Karn from Interceptor Micros. Illustrated text adventure by Ian Gray, released for C64, Spectrum and Amstrad CPC.
Nice one!! I've not played many adventures on the 8-bits and don't have time to explore them now, so I find it interesting to learn a bit about these games in the form of a review/comparison.
It's just been a little TOO in-depth re technical detail . A basic explanation as to why graphics may look better on one system over another is fine , but I'm guessig much of what's being discussed is over most people's heads.

If you want to go all techy I guess the majority of readers can skip those posts - however some of the stuff you're talking about is interesting , but tbh I , and probably others , can't be bothered to search through the techno-babble to find the good stuff.
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Post by SirClive » Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:49 am

I am saying that we are comparing games, not the technicalities of hardware. Can't we just have a nice little comparison thread that is made up of reviews of GAMES and a little chatter without it being taken over by tech-talk?
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TMR
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Post by TMR » Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:00 am

SirClive wrote:I am saying that we are comparing games, not the technicalities of hardware. Can't we just have a nice little comparison thread that is made up of reviews of GAMES and a little chatter without it being taken over by tech-talk?
For some of us, this is a "little chatter". Sorry you're so offended though, i'll keep out of the thread in future...

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Post by CraigGrannell » Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:35 am

To clarify, a little chatter about the games in question is fine. It's when it deviates into a discussion about hardware in general that it becomes a problem. Please do NOT stay out of this thread. However, if you want to start an in-depth discussion about the merits of a platform, or if within a few posts and replies it becomes apparent that's what's happening, just start a new thread and link to it from this one.

We're not usually so militant about moderation—in fact, I like the way threads evolve. However, exceptions are made for certain threads that have very specific aims, and this is one of them.
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SirClive
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Post by SirClive » Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:44 am

TMR wrote:
SirClive wrote:I am saying that we are comparing games, not the technicalities of hardware. Can't we just have a nice little comparison thread that is made up of reviews of GAMES and a little chatter without it being taken over by tech-talk?
For some of us, this is a "little chatter". Sorry you're so offended though, i'll keep out of the thread in future...
Didn't say I was offended. I am just disappointed that another light hearted thread has turned into a detailed technical debate. That is my view as a forum member, not a moderator.
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Post by oswald » Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:36 am

I fail to understand why is it better to have this thread in a form of 1 comparison each week or month and then no activity at all, instead of technical or whatever debates inbetween ? this is the most heavily moderated forum I've ever seen (RG) feels like 1984. "no technical debates dude! - big bro is watching!"

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Post by Celebaglar » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:15 pm

oswald wrote:I fail to understand why is it better to have this thread in a form of 1 comparison each week or month and then no activity at all, instead of technical or whatever debates inbetween ? this is the most heavily moderated forum I've ever seen (RG) feels like 1984. "no technical debates dude! - big bro is watching!"
I think what they mean is:

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...which is a valid point. Nothing wrong with discussing hardware technical points, but there is a tendency for a lot of threads to degenerate into that area, which is a right pain for those of who couldn't care less. It's no fun having to trawl through four or five pages of technobabble to find a comparison review worth reading.

Remember people, this is about the games. There's plenty of room to start hardware debates on dedicated threads. I'm with the mods here - on the forum I administer the "thread hijacked" smiley would have been wheeled out a long time ago.

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Post by CraigGrannell » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:17 pm

The problem is that so many threads have ended up in a techie pissing contest, and that, with few exceptions, descends into pointless bitching and axe-grinding. Elsewhere, that's one thing, but not in this thread. (And it's not like I'm saying no technical stuff, but if it goes on for a bit, it should clearly have its own thread, rather than 'hijacking' this one.

As for 'heavily moderated', hardly. I've maybe deleted a dozen non-spam things (and things, not entire posts) in the 18 months or so I've been moderating this place.
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Post by SirClive » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:36 pm

Here, here (or is it hear, hear? that always confuses me).

No one is suggesting that tech talk shouldn't be part of the RG forum. Just stay on topic or create your own thread and make it on topic.
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Post by oswald » Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:30 pm

I think its inevitable in a game comparing thread to compare the machines in a techie way aswell.

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Post by SirClive » Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:42 pm

Well it didn't happen in the first 25 pages.
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Post by Antiriad2097 » Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:46 pm

I think there are limits. I think in the comparisons its fine to discuss that the C64 has better scrolling than the Amstrad and that affects gameplay for example, but its really not necessary to go into depth about why that's the case.
Last edited by Antiriad2097 on Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by LeeT » Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:57 pm

Has to be said that I agree with Sir Clive and Craig - most of these techy posts are enough to put off casual members and it only seems to be a few people who are involved with it.

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