Why Isn't Emulation Good Enough??

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Weekend_Warrior
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Why Isn't Emulation Good Enough??

Post by Weekend_Warrior » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:04 am

How is it that I can have all these classic old arcade games on my computer and never feel like playing them. Yet.. if I were to walk into actual arcade room and see all these games, I'd probably think I died and went to Heaven?

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sscott
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Re: Why Isn't Emulation Good Enough??

Post by sscott » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:38 am

For about a hundred reasons which are all fairly obvious such as atmosphere, nostalgia etc... Do get yourself a decent arcade stick for MAME though, improves the experience a lot.
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Re: Why Isn't Emulation Good Enough??

Post by Liamh1982 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:31 am

If you're able to, hook up your PC to your TV - that might help a bit, does so for me.

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Re: Why Isn't Emulation Good Enough??

Post by psj3809 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:02 am

Weekend_Warrior wrote:How is it that I can have all these classic old arcade games on my computer and never feel like playing them. Yet.. if I were to walk into actual arcade room and see all these games, I'd probably think I died and went to Heaven?
Thats one negative about emulation. Because you've got access to soooo many games you tend to dip in and out and not stick with one for a long time. In an arcade you would pump more money in to try and get past that frustrating level, at home you think 'ahhh sod it' and move onto the next game.

I now try and limit myself to one retro game to play non stop to try to complete it (even with infinite continues) rather than just switching to the next one.

But i cant talk, i've got an ipod and have 300+ games on it. I should really have 5 or so, play each one to death and complete them (and de-install) then move onto the others but just like emulators i seem to love dipping in and out of so many games.

If you were in the 80's and said 'one day in the future you can have a small device with emulators on so you can have 10000's of games are your disposal' it would seem like a dream !

Agree with sscott, a proper joystick helps a ton or do what other people do, create a small MAME arcade cabinet to home a PC, makes playing those games so much better

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Re: Why Isn't Emulation Good Enough??

Post by delbert_trout » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:30 am

True - despite having thousands of ROMs there's only a small handful of games on each system I ever seem to play on a regular basis. Played several fantastic old arcade cabs at a retro event recently which I'm ashamed to say I probably wouldn't have stuck with for more than a few minutes at home - certainly can't beat the atmosphere of the real thing. I'm also really enjoying getting involved in competing in the 'Retro League' for the highest score for one week per game, which has been opening my eyes to several more gems which again I probably wouldn't have bothered with much otherwise.

An utterly amazing thing to be able to do though.
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Re: Why Isn't Emulation Good Enough??

Post by Scooby1970 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:35 am

My MAME is via my Dreamcast and hooked up to my 50" Plasma, so it really does feel arcadey. I use it much more than I use emulation on my laptop or PC.

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Re: Why Isn't Emulation Good Enough??

Post by Lord Innit » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:40 am

sscott wrote:For about a hundred reasons which are all fairly obvious such as atmosphere, nostalgia etc... Do get yourself a decent arcade stick for MAME though, improves the experience a lot.
Definately the atmosphere being a large part of the experience.The arcade stick certainly helps.If possible,why not convert a disused cabinet.A friend of mine has and it really does the trick.I think that a lot of these games just feel better when you're standing up .
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Re: Why Isn't Emulation Good Enough??

Post by Fred83 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:00 am

Nostalgia factor.Saying that,rather emulate c64/speccy than sit through loading times.
Last edited by Fred83 on Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why Isn't Emulation Good Enough??

Post by FatTrucker » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:12 am

There's no substitute for playing an arcade game on an arcade machine. Its cheap and easy nowadays to Mame an old jamma cab.

TBH I prefer playing old console games via emulation when using an LCDTV.

The main thing is managing the game lists. I only tend to fire stuff up when there's a game I want to play rather than looking through the lists trying to pick a game to play. Too many games to choose from means you end up endlessly browsing through lists rather than playing.

Set up with authentic controllers though, if I'm honest the actual 'play' aspect is just as accurate via emulation in most cases. Just goes to show really that nostalgia is such a big part of playing old games, where people don't enjoy them quite as much through emulation even though the game and gameplay is exactly the same.
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Re: Why Isn't Emulation Good Enough??

Post by Fred83 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:16 am

FatTrucker wrote:if I'm honest the actual 'play' aspect is just as accurate via emulation in most cases. Just goes to show really that nostalgia is such a big part of playing old games, where people don't enjoy them quite as much through emulation even though the game and gameplay is exactly the same.
I think people are going to be forced into it,i often see cases now of people having dead c64/speccies because the chips have finally burnt out.

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Re: Why Isn't Emulation Good Enough??

Post by FatTrucker » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:36 am

Fred83 wrote:
FatTrucker wrote:if I'm honest the actual 'play' aspect is just as accurate via emulation in most cases. Just goes to show really that nostalgia is such a big part of playing old games, where people don't enjoy them quite as much through emulation even though the game and gameplay is exactly the same.
I think people are going to be forced into it,i often see cases now of people having dead c64/speccies because the chips have finally burnt out.
In all honesty, in most cases (particularly where 8 bit hardware and other early hardware is concerned) they look better on a modern display via emulation because the PC and in some cases various filter options compensate for the mismatch in technology, ironically giving a more authentic (or at least original looking) image than when trying to hook up the original hardware.

It just surprises me, just how many people advocate how much better old games are compared to new stuff, but claim the play experience isn't as good via emulation even where the emulation is 1:1.
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Re: Why Isn't Emulation Good Enough??

Post by Antiriad2097 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:15 pm

FatTrucker wrote:The main thing is managing the game lists. I only tend to fire stuff up when there's a game I want to play rather than looking through the lists trying to pick a game to play. Too many games to choose from means you end up endlessly browsing through lists rather than playing.
Participating in something like the Retro League helps with that - you've got a focus so you can stick with a single game for the week.
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Re: Why Isn't Emulation Good Enough??

Post by C=Style » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:52 pm

I used to feel like this and could never work it out. I just put it down to greed and having too many games to choose from. However I learned a few years later it was simply because I was doing it wrong. For a start emulating on a PC monitor (or HD panel) kills the experience for me. Once console emulation caught up with the PC (notably with the Xbox) it changed everything, as I was able to play these classic games, as they were back then, on my CRT TV in RGB. As time has moved on you can now emulate these classic machines on the Wii in RGB at true 240p which is indistinguishable from the real thing in most cases.

There's no difference between having shelves upon shelves full of retail games or having a large ROM list. It can jade you in exactly the same way. So for me, these days emulation is "good enough", but I never used to feel like that because I was doing it wrong (but to another person that may be right).

In terms of anything above 16-bit (ie. N64/PS1/Saturn) I do not emulate. Using the real hardware and flashcards are the only way to fully enjoy them for me, and again it doesn't jade me that I have access to every game made. When I've tried to emulate them in the past I would only ever play a few games but they never felt the same, or ran at the same speed. There's just too many complications with 32-bit/64-bit emulation, PS1 excluded.
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Re: Why Isn't Emulation Good Enough??

Post by FatTrucker » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:07 pm

C=Style wrote:I used to feel like this and could never work it out. I just put it down to greed and having too many games to choose from. However I learned a few years later it was simply because I was doing it wrong. For a start emulating on a PC monitor (or HD panel) kills the experience for me. Once console emulation caught up with the PC (notably with the Xbox) it changed everything, as I was able to play these classic games, as they were back then, on my CRT TV in RGB. As time has moved on you can now emulate these classic machines on the Wii in RGB at true 240p which is indistinguishable from the real thing in most cases.

There's no difference between having shelves upon shelves full of retail games or having a large ROM list. It can jade you in exactly the same way. So for me, these days emulation is "good enough", but I never used to feel like that because I was doing it wrong (but to another person that may be right).

In terms of anything above 16-bit (ie. N64/PS1/Saturn) I do not emulate. Using the real hardware and flashcards are the only way to fully enjoy them for me, and again it doesn't jade me that I have access to every game made. When I've tried to emulate them in the past I would only ever play a few games but they never felt the same, or ran at the same speed. There's just too many complications with 32-bit/64-bit emulation, PS1 excluded.
I agree mostly, PS1 emulation is pretty much 1:1 now with the excellent PSX emulator, if I'm honest I find it no different from playing the original machine. I played through FFVII and VIII recently on a 40" LCD via the emulation rig (with proper Sony Dual Shock 2's) and it looked better than it did back in the day on a CRT, using a simple bilinear video filter, however while N64 is perfectly playable, its nowhere near in terms of getting an authentic look from the video on many titles and Saturn is the same with the emulation in particular being nowhere near 100% in terms of game compatibility.

In terms of other emulators, they look and run perfectly authentic on an LCD display if you set the emulator video up correctly and you don't need to resort to using scanline filters or those silly eagle/sai filters that smear the pixels all over the place.

Systems like the N64, Saturn, DC and PS2 are so cheap to buy and collect for, considering you can get a fairly decent collection for the same price as a couple of TB Hard Drives which you would need to store all the disk images on anyway.
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Re: Why Isn't Emulation Good Enough??

Post by C=Style » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:24 pm

Yeah sure, if I was to use an HD panel for emulation then the scanline filter is the only way to go. It looks very good actually, but a little too good for my tastes, too clinical. There's noting wrong with a little bit of blur, if I was to emulate the C64 on HDTV then Bilinear filtering coupled with scanlines would be a must.

PS1 is emulated very well, pretty funny how bad playing a PS1 on the PS3 looks, you either play full screen in lego land vision or with added texture filtering which is really blurry, alternatively you can use a tiny little box in the middle of the screen which looks better, but is far from ideal. PC emulation of the PS1 is far superior, it's surprising just how good PS1 games look.
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