JRPG's Suck

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Rayne
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JRPG's Suck

Post by Rayne » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:45 pm

And here's what they need to do to stop sucking:

1 - Let me Roleplay. Seriously, Endless hours of scrolling text, character monologues and world history are fine and all but I genuinely cannot remember the last time a JRPG actually asked me to make a plot influencing decision. Take a leaf from Bioware and introduce a little choice into things.

2 - Battles should be epic. Turn-Based systems are so old school they send me to sleep. These days a lot of RPG's have real-time action & nice twists (Star Ocean on PS3 being a great example) So stay on that track and stop with the snooze fest of mashing X (or A, B, whatever).

3 - Pick a path and stick with it. JRPG's need to either be balls-out Japanese and be proud of it (much like Disgaea or Trinity Universe where you invade giant dungeons in the shape of Strawberry Shortcake) or they need to make an honest attempt to appeal to Western tastes. There's nothing worse than seeing a game stuck in between both.

4 - No more crazy Trophies. Who honestly wants to synth every item in the game? Reach level 100,000? Find every single piece of lore and be forced to replay the entire game if you miss just one? I'll tell you, no one. Stop making stupid completion trophies/achievements.

5 - Be creative. Let me guess, you're a normal farmer/country boy with integrity, through a random encounter you see a princess in distress/gain a power and suddenly embark on a quest with a 5 year old girl and a moody guy that rarely speaks? Seen it. Do something new.

6 - Graphics aren't a bad thing. We're in a generation that puts graphics in front of gameplay, debate that all you like but you can't argue that a spit and polish does make something a tad more appealing. Why do so many JRPG's look like early PS2 era titles with flat 2D graphics? Take a page from Hyperdimension Neptunia, if you'remaking character portraits talk, at least animate them slightly so they look appealing.

7 - All Killer, No Filler. I may be in the minority with this one but I don't have 80 hours to spend n a single game. At the very most an RPG quest should be 30-40 hours long but with plenty of extra content for those that DO have the time.

Am I right or wrong? Discuss :)
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thevulture
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Re: JRPG's Suck

Post by thevulture » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:57 pm

:oops: I'm ashamed to admit it, but smashed up a Dreamcast whilst playing Skies Of Arcadia-Should'nt really have been playing it, was dog-tired.I just wanted to get from point A-to-point B and those random battles, just F-ed me right off.slamned fist down on top of console.

Stupid, pointless and very out of character, not to mention expensive mistake to make.

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Fightersmegamix
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Re: JRPG's Suck

Post by Fightersmegamix » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:11 pm

You make some fair points, but you're also talking some rubbish :wink:

1) Nonsence. Why do you need to influence things, can't you just enjoy a story? Just because games are interactive doesn't mean the story has to be. I'd rather a more complex story that can only be told through linear progression than a simplified dialogue tree.

2) How many RGP's use turm based battles these days? We need more not less. Is it not enough that almost every other game is action based. What is wrong with having something that involves thought not reactions? Turn based battles offer a slither of variety in a homogenous entertainment form. No more dumming down.

3) Agree with this, they need to be more Japanese.

4) Good point

5) This is argument is sureley better aimed at western rpgs? Orcs, elfs, dragons, star wars rip offs. Bioware use more cliches than any other developer. I don't remember playing as Chopin in a western game. RPG's in general should be more creative, not just Japanese ones, but they are limited by their audience. I'd argue games like persona are a lot more original and better written than most western stuff.

6) Lost oddessy and star ocean looked pretty good to me. This is just a matter of limited budget, I suppose they should be shorter and look better, which leads to

7) Yeah, they do take the p*ss with the length.

There's good stuff out there. Whats most annoyiing is when a game like last story, which looks like a good step in the right direction, won't even get released in the west.

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rolan
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Re: JRPG's Suck

Post by rolan » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:14 pm

thevulture wrote::oops: I'm ashamed to admit it, but smashed up a Dreamcast whilst playing Skies Of Arcadia-Should'nt really have been playing it, was dog-tired.I just wanted to get from point A-to-point B and those random battles, just F-ed me right off.slamned fist down on top of console.

Stupid, pointless and very out of character, not to mention expensive mistake to make.
i had to stop playing it the random battles just got so irritating.... shame because if they fixed that it would be a great game...

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DPrinny
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Re: JRPG's Suck

Post by DPrinny » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:23 pm

Meh.
Needs the word "Most" in the title a the start
Also needs to include almost all Square/soft/enixs RPGs
Final Fantasy games (Bar tactics) are pants.

Still glad there is no SRPG hatred in this thread

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Re: JRPG's Suck

Post by StickHead » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:00 pm

I struggle with JRPGs too; Pokemon Blue is the only one I've completed (I'm not even sure that counts). I'm quite proud that I managed to get half way through the third disc of Final Fantasy XIII before it defeated me - that's a lot of spiky haired philosophy-lite pretentious twaddle for someone like me to take.

My JRPG graveyard includes Eternal Sonata (that's not Chopin, by the way, just some twisted Japanese misinterpretation), Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, Grandia 2, Final Fantasy VII and XIII. A lot of people revere these games, but I just don't see it. They just don't translate well.

As for SRPGs, I played Final Fantasy Tactics Advance to death thanks to the awesome strategy and customization, but still hammered the censored out of the B button during anything resembling a cut-scene or dialogue.
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Haabermaaster
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Re: JRPG's Suck

Post by Haabermaaster » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:16 pm

Rayne wrote:1 - Let me Roleplay. Seriously,
JRPGs have always been about you playing the Designers Character, not your own. Consequently any decisions you have to make are reliant solely upon what he wanted you to make at that point. You have no free will. If he decides your character (secretly himself) wants you to fall in love with the snooty princess then nothing on earth is going to break this.
Rayne wrote:2 - Battles should be epic.
Yes they should be. The only problem is that JRPGs, especially past ones have literally hundreds and hundreds of battles. The Guardian Force/Espers/Demons summons of Final Fantasy are epic, but not after seeing them for fifty times in a row. They get old VERY fast. They should definitely not be snooze-fests though, especially if you can't skip them.
Rayne wrote:3 - Pick a path and stick with it.
I don't agree. The days of impenetrable JRPGs have ended, and they're all the better for it. Japan is no longer a Culturally isolated little Island and so has to accept different influences in order to survive. Going out of their way to directly appeal to Westerners is also pointless as you get people who have no grasp of our culture trying to craft games appealing to our culture. They should just get on with simply making good videogames. Miyamoto got it right.
Rayne wrote:4 - No more crazy Trophies.
Japanese players are traditionally Levellers. If the max level in a JRPG is 100 they will very often simply grind to Lv100 before even embarking on the actual quest itself. It's just how they traditionally play those games. The "collect all McGuffins" is simply an extension of that, along with the Western influence of trying to justify the purchase price of the game by increasing its longevity. Japanese gamers simply abandon the game once complete. Hardly any of them seem to replay titles. They just move on.
Rayne wrote:5 - Be creative.
It was always thus. :cry:
this is the single most annoying thing about JRPGs, in that it's always a 12yr old boy off to defeat the Big Evil. He's always alone (bar the ragtag collection of teens he recruits) and no adult ever bothers to help. Not even to provide free equipment he might need to save their very arses! No, much rather you grind for hours collecting cockroach farts to sell to him for his hideously expensive armour. :roll:
Japanese players like to play safe. They like everything rote. Ice magic for Fire Demons. Cure spells kill the Undead.
Rayne wrote:6 - Graphics aren't a bad thing.
RPGs are a massive development time investment. You can't just use the same brown wall texture over and over again and expect to hit the big numbers. Nearly every location needs to be different and there has to be plenty of them. They often get farmed out to many different artists (FFVII did, and in sections it really really shows) and all those Staff need paying. No wonder the Credits for an RPG last about fifteen minutes. There's hundreds of people to thank!
Rayne wrote:7 - All Killer, No Filler.
I'd pay a tenner for a 10hr RPG. That doesn't mean I'd pay £40 for 40hrs play though. It'd be a pretty brief experience though.
The problem with most RPGs is that the exposition alone (where they try to set up the story) takes hours in itself, so unless it's a pretty easy to get into scenario you're looking at a sizeable time investment. plus how likely is it you'll "bond" with your character if it's all done in a jiffy? Who cares if NPC X dies if you only met them 20 minutes ago?

Games use filler as a way to prolong the game, thus justify the high price. RPGs however often use them to get you to actually give a monkeys about the people you're supposed to be saving.



TL;DR
Japanese RPGs are about playing HIS character in HIS world.
Western RPGs are all about YOU and YOUR world.

Both have their place in my collection. :D

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Rayne
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Re: JRPG's Suck

Post by Rayne » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:48 pm

Both most certainly have their merits :) I'd just love to play a Japanese styled role playing game with western gameplay mechanics.
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Re: JRPG's Suck

Post by llj » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:29 pm

Rayne wrote:Both most certainly have their merits :) I'd just love to play a Japanese styled role playing game with western gameplay mechanics.

Then play a western rpg. Honestly, there is no such thing as "proper" RPG mechanics, developers can make games however they want, and you just play what you like. If you don't like it, then don't play it. I don't see what's so difficult to understand here. There are some genres that don't appeal to me, but I don't think they suck. They're just not for me.

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Rayne
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Re: JRPG's Suck

Post by Rayne » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:42 pm

llj wrote:
Rayne wrote:Both most certainly have their merits :) I'd just love to play a Japanese styled role playing game with western gameplay mechanics.

Then play a western rpg. Honestly, there is no such thing as "proper" RPG mechanics, developers can make games however they want, and you just play what you like. If you don't like it, then don't play it. I don't see what's so difficult to understand here. There are some genres that don't appeal to me, but I don't think they suck. They're just not for me.
Wow, what side of bed did you wake up on this morning? Bitchy?

It's a playful rant at JRPGS. I had fun with Grandia and FF 8 or 9 years ago, it seems like they haven't moved on at all since then
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Crunchy
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Re: JRPG's Suck

Post by Crunchy » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:46 pm

If you want to see a wacky hairdo or two and have a go on a fishing mini-game then a jrpg is most definitely the answer.

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DanWelsh86
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Re: JRPG's Suck

Post by DanWelsh86 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:56 pm

I quite like Breath of Fire 2, but never finished it. Still it was a tidy game.

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Crunchy
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Re: JRPG's Suck

Post by Crunchy » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:59 pm

DanWelsh86 wrote:I quite like Breath of Fire 2, but never finished it. Still it was a tidy game.
Cool.
What's the fishing mini-game like in it? Any good?

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thevulture
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Re: JRPG's Suck

Post by thevulture » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:00 pm

rolan wrote:
thevulture wrote::oops: I'm ashamed to admit it, but smashed up a Dreamcast whilst playing Skies Of Arcadia-Should'nt really have been playing it, was dog-tired.I just wanted to get from point A-to-point B and those random battles, just F-ed me right off.slamned fist down on top of console.

Stupid, pointless and very out of character, not to mention expensive mistake to make.
i had to stop playing it the random battles just got so irritating.... shame because if they fixed that it would be a great game...
:wink: Picked it (and another DC) up soon after-Never tried it though.Did buy it on Gamecube as random battles 'improved', but still never been able to stomach them long enough to get back into it.Real shame as other than that, loved the game.

llj
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Re: JRPG's Suck

Post by llj » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:11 pm

Rayne wrote:
llj wrote:
Rayne wrote:Both most certainly have their merits :) I'd just love to play a Japanese styled role playing game with western gameplay mechanics.

Then play a western rpg. Honestly, there is no such thing as "proper" RPG mechanics, developers can make games however they want, and you just play what you like. If you don't like it, then don't play it. I don't see what's so difficult to understand here. There are some genres that don't appeal to me, but I don't think they suck. They're just not for me.
Wow, what side of bed did you wake up on this morning? Bitchy?
I prefer to be called a jerk or a$$hole. And I'm always either one no matter what day of the year. :)
It's a playful rant at JRPGS. I had fun with Grandia and FF 8 or 9 years ago, it seems like they haven't moved on at all since then
The thing is, this topic has been beaten to death in practically every video game forum online. And if you've been in as many game forums as me, it gets tiresome to see it all the time, along with the FPS rants and the "Japan vs America" topics.

The thing is, RPGs in general haven't really changed that much over the years, in the west or the east. They've gotten prettier graphics and sometimes they've played around with battle systems, but the overall experience is exactly the same. Has any Bioware RPGs in the past few years truly been any more progressive than their Baldur's Gate trilogy which they made about a decade ago? For me, Baldur's Gate 2 was the last word on the D&D-related video game RPG world. Nothing else since has compared for me. JRPGs are the same way. They've gotten prettier and wordier but the mechanics and objectives aren't much different from what they were in the 16 bit...even 8 bit era. I still enjoy thm, but it's more me liking the genre. When I get tired of them I take a break and take something like Killzone out for a spin.

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