Gaming's biggest tool?

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DreamcastRIP
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Re: Gaming's biggest tool?

Post by DreamcastRIP » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:29 am

The suits at Teletext who effectively ruined Digitiser. :x
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thevulture
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Re: Gaming's biggest tool?

Post by thevulture » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:56 am

DreamcastRIP wrote:The suits at Teletext who effectively ruined Digitiser. :x
:wink: Hear Hear. Mind you, they did upset a lot of fan boys over the years.In interview/Article with Edge (Love-Me-Do), Rose laughs about the various letter-writing campains to 'Get Digitiser taken off the air' by Xbox owners( who were in Rose's words:P*ssing him off), Amiga owners, PC owners and the like.Maybe suits got nervous?

Teletext DID actually admit they'd made a mistake by canning the humour, but sadly it was only when Rose annouced his departure.

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thevulture
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Re: Gaming's biggest tool?

Post by thevulture » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:01 am

Darryl Still during the Jaguar Years at Atari.

Wrote a letter to C+VG at the time proclaiming the Jaguar to be (technically)superior to the Saturn and in some areas on Par with Playstation.

Also, hyped 'Attack Of The Mutant Penguins' as THE Killer-App. for the Jaguar.

Appreciate you've got to 'Big-Up' the product, but bally hell.......comes a point where your into realms of fantasy.

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Re: Gaming's biggest tool?

Post by Matt_B » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:34 am

thevulture wrote:
nakamura wrote:Good call there vulture. I remember that. :lol:
It was like watching a car crash in slow-mo.Early DC mags, interviewed Jez, DC=Powerful, great to work with, compares well to upcoming systems yadda yadda....Our next game, Red Dog, all about the fun, classic in the making etc.

Game arrives....Red Dog? more like bloody awful Dog...dissapears for Pre-release work, pops back out, tail wagging etc, yet still a real mutt.

Jez:Wahhhhh DC is awful, under powered, Sega never marketed my game properly, I'm off to the much more capable Sony system etc etc.....
That's a little bit harsh. He might have made a little bit of a fool of himself there but he's also made some great games over the years and I don't think it's quite right to include him here when we're mostly talking about people whose contributions have been overwhelmingly negative.

Let's face it, a lot of otherwise great developers have an overhyped prize turd on their record and there'd be few who weren't tools if that was enough to qualify you.

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Re: Gaming's biggest tool?

Post by The Laird » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:52 am

thevulture wrote:Darryl Still during the Jaguar Years at Atari.

Wrote a letter to C+VG at the time proclaiming the Jaguar to be (technically)superior to the Saturn and in some areas on Par with Playstation.
Erm, if you look at the tech specs you will see that was true. Just because very few games showed it dosn't mean it was a lie.

The Jaguar absolutely destroys the Saturn and PS1 when it comes to 2D graphics and pushing sprites. It also has a lot of effects that can be done with the blitter; for example the pixel shatter in T2K that they were not able to recreate properly in the PS1 and Saturn versions.

The texture mapping is also a lot cleaner than both those machines it just can't do as many polygons. Take a look at Hoverstrike CD and compare it to Krazy Ivan on either machine and it looks far better.

The biggest problem with the Jaguar is that it has a custom chip set with no CPU. Too many programmers treated the M68000 as the CPU when it was mearly there as slave chip to do tasks such as read the controllers and aid with math. You need to be using the 64-bit chips like the GPU, OPL and Blitter if you want to get the most of of the machine and far too few people did that. Even the great Jeff Minter himself admitted that he barely touched them.

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thevulture
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Re: Gaming's biggest tool?

Post by thevulture » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:20 pm

All Daryll achived from that letter was to be mocked in the letters page of the following issue by Jaguar owners (Ex. and then present).Who said it was'nt as good as 32X or 3DO as far as games went.Daryll was claiming the Jaguar to be the best enbtry level machine for the (then) next generation and claimed the CD drive would turn things around as CD was the 1 advantage PS/Saturn had over Jaguar.

If i looked at tech specs? Well as Ex-Jaguar owner well aware of tech specs.Like claimed animation speed of what was it? 850 million pixels a second? Yep true if every part of machine was given task of just animating pixels.

Tech.specs are meaningless, they never reflect in-game performance, Sony used to use them a hellva lot during PS1, PS2 days.

Jeff Minter was 'scolded' by Jaguar hardware designers as he A)used the chips backwards and B)They felt Tempest 2000 made poor use of the system, where as something like Crescent Galaxy did.(Look it up in Edge's making of.....Tempest 2000)

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Re: Gaming's biggest tool?

Post by thevulture » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:27 pm

Matt_B

Sorry, i don't feel i was 'Harsh' on Jez. In various interviews prior to Red Dog being reviewed he was very much keen to sing praises of Sega and the Dreamcast hardware. Soon as game bombs at review and retail-He throws a massive tantrum, refusing to accept his product was'nt upto scratch.

Cliche, but poor workman who blames his tools.Cannot say Red Dog being poor was due to technical limitations of DC hardware-Espically after developer has gone on record to say how great it was.Then to blame Sega for poor marketing, when game appeared on various Cover discs, had full page ad's in magazines, does make you a bit of a tool.

As for his games? Been very Hit n miss: Starglider's great.Birds Of Prey:Over hyped, late, poor.

Creature Shock:All style, little substance.Croc? exactly that.. a croc....That's just off top of my head.

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Re: Gaming's biggest tool?

Post by thevulture » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:31 pm

Jez San's development later went under name of Just Add Monsters, Then Ninja Theory? If so, i'm adding Heavenly Sword to his turkeys.Another hyped game, making of features each month in Edge..game arrives...Technically nice enough, but played like a dog.

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Re: Gaming's biggest tool?

Post by Matt_B » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:35 pm

thevulture wrote:Matt_B

Sorry, i don't feel i was 'Harsh' on Jez. In various interviews prior to Red Dog being reviewed he was very much keen to sing praises of Sega and the Dreamcast hardware. Soon as game bombs at review and retail-He throws a massive tantrum, refusing to accept his product was'nt upto scratch.

Cliche, but poor workman who blames his tools.Cannot say Red Dog being poor was due to technical limitations of DC hardware-Espically after developer has gone on record to say how great it was.Then to blame Sega for poor marketing, when game appeared on various Cover discs, had full page ad's in magazines, does make you a bit of a tool.

As for his games? Been very Hit n miss: Starglider's great.Birds Of Prey:Over hyped, late, poor.

Creature Shock:All style, little substance.Croc? exactly that.. a croc....That's just off top of my head.
Meh. Even his bad games are far from the worst ones around, or even the most over-hyped.

On the whole, I'd think that this all comes down to him having some rather misplaced early enthusiasm for the Dreamcast that subsequently went a bit sour when the game didn't work out. Sure, he was a prima donna about it, but the comments about Sega's marketing definitely ring true.

They were going through the motions with the advertising, etc. but it simply wasn't translating into sales and there were hordes of developers jumping ship when it became obvious that their games weren't going to break even. And that's as true of the ones who made the very best games for it as it is of Jez San.

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thevulture
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Re: Gaming's biggest tool?

Post by thevulture » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:58 pm

For it's time, Birds Of Prey was up there for biggest gap between arriving when promised and delivery what was promised.

Malice Xbox was another not living upto hype and taking an age to appear affair.

But i digress, it was more Jez's Wahhhh DC sucks approach to interviews, just seemed to smack of him having sour grapes that anyone (myself included) who played Red Dog thought it was rubbish.No-one elese to blame but folks who put it together.From technical point of view, it was'nt half bad, just gameplay etc were all over the shop.

What did he want Sega to do via marketing? Create false review scores?, project image of game onto Big Ben or what? To use a phrase-You can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter (but it'll still smell)

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Re: Gaming's biggest tool?

Post by Haabermaaster » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:26 pm

thevulture wrote:To use a phrase-You can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter (but it'll still smell)
Oh you can you know. You really CAN polish a turd... :lol: :lol:

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned John Romero. I know he wasn't anywhere near the censored people thought he was (good job editing Retro Gamer there mate) but for a while at least he really was the censored we all thought he was.

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Re: Gaming's biggest tool?

Post by Matt_B » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:29 pm

thevulture wrote:But i digress, it was more Jez's Wahhhh DC sucks approach to interviews, just seemed to smack of him having sour grapes that anyone (myself included) who played Red Dog thought it was rubbish.No-one elese to blame but folks who put it together.From technical point of view, it was'nt half bad, just gameplay etc were all over the shop.

What did he want Sega to do via marketing? Create false review scores?, project image of game onto Big Ben or what? To use a phrase-You can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter (but it'll still smell)
I expect he just wanted Sega to sell a decent number of games. Sure, it didn't get rave reviews, but that didn't necessarily make it a total write off as many games that aren't brilliant can still sell in decent numbers if well marketed; just look at some of the million-plus sellers on the PS2 and the Wii.

I don't know the exact figures, but perhaps if he'd written a flop for the Playstation it might still sell a couple of hundred thousand units and go some way to covering the costs of its production. However, if a Dreamcast game of similar quality only sold a tenth of that, his studio would go go bust pretty quickly if they kept at it. The developers were certainly leaving in droves, so it wasn't just him.

On the whole, the Dreamcast was already in the process of crashing and burning at the time and anybody bar a Sega fanboy could see it. I don't doubt that there was an element of sour grapes in what he said, but there were some unpalatable home truths too.

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Re: Gaming's biggest tool?

Post by storm_maker » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:54 pm

Red Dog didn't get consistently bad reviews anyway :?

In fact I'd say it got consistently decent reviews, lots of 8s and 7s from what I can remember.
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Re: Gaming's biggest tool?

Post by thevulture » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:22 pm

storm_maker wrote:Red Dog didn't get consistently bad reviews anyway :?

In fact I'd say it got consistently decent reviews, lots of 8s and 7s from what I can remember.
Think IGN gave it a 7.It was slagged, twice in Offical DC mag, but then they were quite harsh on a number of DC games.

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Re: Gaming's biggest tool?

Post by thevulture » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:31 pm

Matt:The DC was pretty much on borrowed time from the start-Soon as PS2 hype-beast awoke, that was it.

But thats a sideline to Jez's rant, he threw a tantrum, plain and simple. Jeff Minter, for all his great works has done similar over the years, lashing out at the media (Zzap 64 then later Xbox 360 media for Space Giraffe).

I fully understand creators being protective of their creations, after all, lot of blood, sweat and tears goes into them, but: It's all part n parcel of the buisness is it not? It's to be expected. Developer submits a game to magazine, for better or for worse it's at the mercy of the reviewer.Game released to general public, Good or bad reviews aside, it's still up to the public to decide IF they want to buy it.Maybe Sega having seen the bigger picture thought it was'nt justified to throw more money away on average title?

Point being:LOT of developers left (Sinking) Ship Dreamcast for Super-Carrier Playstation 2, but how many had benny before jumping?

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