'Classic' games you don't understand the hype about

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broton
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Re:

Post by broton » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:26 am

Robbo wrote:
broton wrote:
Robbo wrote: Pap, poo, pants, or just plain censored. Whichever word you choose to apply to Kick Off 2 it still has the same meaning... Kick Off 2 was massively over hyped and an awfully boring funless game, where SWOS was magnificent and still hasn't been bettered in ten years of newer footballing gaming.

"Kick Off Poo" :lol: :wink:
DO I take it you don't like Kick Off 2?
Lots of people who weren't good enough didn't like it either, it's nothing to be ashamed of - and I admit you probably have a point that SWOS was more fun (career mode was the best feature in any footy game). I still prefer KO 2 though.
Robbo wrote:FACT.
Here's a fact for you - your opinions are not fact, though you are completely entitled to them.
:lol: Oh dear oh dear you do seem to be taking my comments rather too seriously don't you?
Yep, it's one of my great talents :lol:
Robbo wrote: I'm sure most people would agree this thread was intended as a bit of a laugh. Nothing more. I mean, how can anyone say GTA's hype wasn't REALLY justified when the game is in fact genius? They'd have to be insane! :wink: (Yes that was a joke by the way!)

As for me not liking Kick Off 2... in fairness I actually played this a lot and was reasonably good at it, but once I came across Sensi I was swayed and in later years ('95 onwards) I discovered the mighty SWOS with it's career mode and Kick Off 2 was history. I'm afraid one of the things about footy games is (at least for me) when you find a better one the old one just isn't worth playing anymore. I have yet to find a footy game more fun to play than SWOS 96/97 and that my friend (at least to me) would be what I would call a FACT. :wink:
Happy to call that a fact (or even a FACT if you prefer :wink:) Like I said, the career mode was awesome, but when I started up a game on it last year I found I couldn't be bothered to set up the tactics all over again (given that I enjoyed the game before, that's clearly a problem with me, not the game)

I'm a bit of a hoarder when it comes to footy games, I like to keep the old ones around - in fact I was playing ISS Pro the other day..now there's a series where, while technically excellent, seems to be getting less fun all the time...

No hard feelings mate

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Randall Flagg
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Post by Randall Flagg » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:34 am

OMG...Where to start???!!!!

Most UPTG games ( Lunar jetman, Knightlore, Underwurlde, Alien8 etc..)

Repton games (acorn computers)

As mentioned frequently - Manic Miner, Jet set willy (I actually thought chuckie egg was ok)

Kick off 2 was ok in multi player mode , difficult but ok, obviously until sensi came along. Sensi did kinda stomp it when it arrived.

Strider i feel neither one way or the other about.
Retrotechy.
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broton
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Re:

Post by broton » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:35 am

Robbo wrote:
psj3809 wrote:Did you ever play Player Manager ? Loved that game and played it forever ! My player was i think 62 (had to keep him playing otherwise you were a manager) and had the speed of a snail but an excellent game.

I was the reverse of you, got into Kick Off II so much , so did my friends, tried Sensi but was never keen on the small sprites and then got addicted to Player Manager
I never played Player Manager but from your description of the game it may be worth a look... I'll keep an eye on eBay methinks (I assume we're talking Amiga here? Will it work on a 600?)
Alas no :cry:
I believe it needs an unexpanded A500
NB Player Manager was based on the original Kick Off

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Robbo
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Re:

Post by Robbo » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:53 am

broton wrote:No hard feelings mate
Never were any bud :wink:
broton wrote:
Robbo wrote:
psj3809 wrote:Did you ever play Player Manager ? Loved that game and played it forever ! My player was i think 62 (had to keep him playing otherwise you were a manager) and had the speed of a snail but an excellent game.

I was the reverse of you, got into Kick Off II so much , so did my friends, tried Sensi but was never keen on the small sprites and then got addicted to Player Manager
I never played Player Manager but from your description of the game it may be worth a look... I'll keep an eye on eBay methinks (I assume we're talking Amiga here? Will it work on a 600?)
Alas no :cry:
I believe it needs an unexpanded A500
NB Player Manager was based on the original Kick Off
I have a relokick disk... maybe that will work. I guess it's worth the risk. :D

psj3809
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Re:

Post by psj3809 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:15 am

Robbo wrote:I never played Player Manager but from your description of the game it may be worth a look... I'll keep an eye on eBay methinks (I assume we're talking Amiga here? Will it work on a 600?)
Once you had a fast centre forward it was brilliant whizzing through scoring goals, if you quickly did down/up you would lob it and there was a particular place where when you lobbed it it would go in most of the time, same with a corner.

Great game back then, one of my old top 10 most played games ever. Nearly was in tears when my saved game didnt load up once !!!

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StarEye
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Re:

Post by StarEye » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:23 am

Opa-Opa wrote: As for bouncing off the cars in TOCA your lying again. If you nudge the cars while racing thats fine, anything harder and not only do you suffer penaltys for dangerous driving you also damage the car so it does not perform and you will lose control of the car at any speed over 50-60mph (100kph) meaning there is no way you will win the race.
You suffer penalty's for dangerous driving in TOCA 2 on the PS1 (and PC). That's the only TOCA where this happens, though I've yet to try TOCA Race Driver 3. Damage, yes, but if you do it the right way, you can get away with very little damage - mostly just visual damage. And you just said every skilled driver could drive into the bend at 60mph with no problems, but now you suddenly say you lose control in TOCA? That's not realistic is it?

And you saying you KNOW you can beat me at any racing game, isn't that kind of juvenile? You don't know me, you don't know if I'm any good, and I could just as well say the same about you. I KNOW I can beat you at any racing game out there. How? I just know it. See how stupid that sounds? You sound like a 14 year old.

Oh, and in GT4, you get a five second 50km/h speed limit penalty when crashing into other cars or walls too hard, in many of the races.

BTW, can you tell me what Doom did to move the genre forwards, did you forget that the genre already existed when Doom came around? It didn't invent ANYTHING. And how can you say GT did very little to move the racing genre forwards when your beloved TOCA have been so heavily influenced by it? And finally, when did your OPINION of the QUALITY of a game have anything to say wether the game was a turning point or not?

But I guess you're one of the people who sees his own opinion as facts. Most of us call those people fanboys.

EDIT: just to make sure, you do know the difference between a driving sim and a racing sim, don't you? Because, Gran Turismo is sold as a driving simulator, not a racing simulator. It's all about the cars, the physics, the handling, the custimization of the tons of parts you can add and then adjust with extreme accuracy. I don't think that GT was even intended as a racing sim. When you drive around town in real life, you're DRIVING, you're not RACING. There's actually a HUGE difference.
Last edited by StarEye on Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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broton
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Re:

Post by broton » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:49 am

psj3809 wrote:
Robbo wrote:I never played Player Manager but from your description of the game it may be worth a look... I'll keep an eye on eBay methinks (I assume we're talking Amiga here? Will it work on a 600?)
Once you had a fast centre forward it was brilliant whizzing through scoring goals, if you quickly did down/up you would lob it and there was a particular place where when you lobbed it it would go in most of the time, same with a corner.
In the awesome Kick Off 2 you could score from the half way line if you pressed fire as you did the lob - *if* it was plastic pitch (boing) and the wind was favourable. I remember one match in the local league, the score was 3-2 after about 15 seconds and only 2 players had touched the ball... 8)

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Opa-Opa
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Re:

Post by Opa-Opa » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:01 am

StarEye wrote:
Opa-Opa wrote: As for bouncing off the cars in TOCA your lying again. If you nudge the cars while racing thats fine, anything harder and not only do you suffer penaltys for dangerous driving you also damage the car so it does not perform and you will lose control of the car at any speed over 50-60mph (100kph) meaning there is no way you will win the race.
You suffer penalty's for dangerous driving in TOCA 2 on the PS1 (and PC). That's the only TOCA where this happens, though I've yet to try TOCA Race Driver 3. Damage, yes, but if you do it the right way, you can get away with very little damage - mostly just visual damage. And you just said every skilled driver could drive into the bend at 60mph with no problems, but now you suddenly say you lose control in TOCA? That's not realistic is it?


EDIT: just to make sure, you do know the difference between a driving sim and a racing sim, don't you? Because, Gran Turismo is sold as a driving simulator, not a racing simulator. It's all about the cars, the physics, the handling, the custimization of the tons of parts you can add and then adjust with extreme accuracy. I don't think that GT was even intended as a racing sim. When you drive around town in real life, you're DRIVING, you're not RACING. There's actually a HUGE difference.
:lol: :lol: It's clear you haven't played TOCA very much, I have and you DO suffer penaltys for dangerous driving in the first game.
I said that if you try ram cars out the way in TOCA you will suffer damage and most likely spin out, not that turning into a bend at 60 would cause you to spin out.. Maybe you should read my post again..?


The physics, the handling and the custimization in GT is all wrong, the cars float about like boats and as I said in a previous post the centre of gravity/balance is way off meaning that your car defys the law of gravity, ignors the point of no return and flips itself back onto its wheels when in real life it would just end up on its roof...

If GT is not ment to be a racing sim why is it set on race tracks, why is there no traffic calming measures and why are there 5 other cars trying to beat you to the finish line...? Why do you install racing parts to make your car go faster if its not a race..?

As for me "forgeting" that DooM wasn't the first FPS, no I didn't but as someone already mentioned it was the game that encouraged people to upgrade their PC to enable them to play it.
It is true though that I have probley forgoten more about games than you will ever know...

I'm sure this must be boring people now so this is my last post on this subject, you are entitled to belive that GT was the best racing/driving sim ever made, your wrong, but still entitled..

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StarEye
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Post by StarEye » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:56 pm

Yes, and you're entitled to think Doom was the best/greatest FPS ever created, you're wrong, but you're entitled to.

And you're right, I've not played TOCA 1 much, but I was a big fan of TOCA 2. I loved World Touring Cars as well, played it to death. But that's the only arcadey TOCA game I ever cared much for. After TOCA 2, the series started dumbing down, and now they just have a huge bunch of different types of cars, from rally to trucks to formula ones and touring cars. It's not really TOCA anymore. It's basically a GT clone, but with a wider selection of car types. With the main problem being, it never really shines at all, because instead of being really good at one thing, it's just okay at everything. But the point is, TOCA hasn't had dangerous driving penalties since TOCA 2. I miss that, actually. But it does have the more obvious penalties, crash your car too much and it'll drive slower. But they still drive like cardboard boxes. In GT, there's at least some weight to them. And cars don't just flip over in real life, they need to crash into something to flip. GT cars doesn't flip at all, but that's all just visual realism you're looking for there.

In fact, I never said it's the best racing/driving game ever created. I never said it was the most realistic either. I'm saying it's pretty accurate in the handling department, but not necessarily the most realistic. And there's more about driving than traffics and other cars. The other cars are there just for show, so you don't get so lonely on the track. But you might as well do time attack, at least that forces you to improve the skills and not just ram your car into barriers and other cars. It forces you to actually drive, and not just race. Today, most people play Gran Turismo to improve lap-times and such. A lot of the tracks are from real life too, and I know a lot of the fanbase also races in real life. I admit though, it's a pretty useless game without a 900 degrees force feedback wheel, but once you get that, and turn off all the newbie features, like TCS and ASM, you DO get a pretty accurate feel of the car.

But all this doesn't matter. What we (at least I) were discussing is wether the game is a huge turning point or not. And you can't deny it's been a huge influence, just like Doom was a huge influence. Gran Turismo is one of the main reasons people wanted a PS1, just like Doom was one of the reasons people upgraded their PCs. Gran Turismo is still one of the main selling points of the Playstations. That's proof right there, that the series has had a pretty big impact on the gaming world. I'm not trying to convince you to like the series.

Oh, and I'd like to hear some examples of games that GT was a clone of. And be sure to name games that came before GT, not after. GT paved the way for a whole new sub-genre withing racing/driving games, and it's still the game every other game in the same genre is compared to.

Next, you'll say nobody will remember Final Fantasy VII for anything else than just another jrpg.

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R. Prime
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Post by R. Prime » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:02 pm

Hey let's all have a big argument about computer games.

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SirClive
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Re:

Post by SirClive » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:02 pm

psj3809 wrote:got into Kick Off II so much , so did my friends, tried Sensi but was never keen on the small sprites and then got addicted to Player Manager
Me too. Loved KOII, but Sensi for me was only good for a quick blast. No longevity.
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StarEye
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Post by StarEye » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:09 pm

Well, no other soccer game has lastesd for 15 years for me, so I wouldn't say it didn't have longevity. You know, you can do a pretty good amount of sick moves in Sensible too, it just takes practice. It's one of the games that's easy to learn but difficult to truly master. Unlike Kick Off 2, which were difficult to learn and even tougher to master.

BTW, I think KO2 is a wonderful game as well. I got pretty good at it back then, playing against my brother. Saved great goals and all, we did some slick moves back then. Used the Final Whistle datadisk too.

SWOS though, was like KO2 and Player Manager together put together. You had a fantastic career mode, simple but extremely addictive. And no other soccer game to this date had the amount of teams that SWOS had. I remember when I tried the FIFA games and everyone hailed the amount of competitions and teams it had and so on, but for me it was like a step backwards as I was used to SWOS.
Last edited by StarEye on Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Last Ginja
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Post by The Last Ginja » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:10 pm

Fifa is much better than KO2 and SWOS combined./SARCASM

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StarEye
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Post by StarEye » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:12 pm

FIFA has gotten better, but it still can't touch Pro Evolution Soccer. If you like, PES is the equivelent of Kick Off 2, while FIFA is the equivelent of Sensible Soccer.

That said, I think both PES and SWOS share the first place for best soccer games ever.

EDIT: hey! You tricked me! :p

thl
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Re:

Post by thl » Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:10 pm

The Last Ginja wrote:Fifa is much better than KO2 and SWOS combined./SARCASM
FIFA isn't as good as ISS.

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