'Classic' games you don't understand the hype about

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psj3809
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Post by psj3809 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:35 am

Cant believe people are slating Doom !

Doom was one of those games which made people buy a PC for that game alone ! Bit like Tetris/Super Mario Land on the GB, Vice City for the PSX2

Yeah its so easy to look back now and slate it but imagine it back then, Wolfenstein amazed a lot of people but the vast majority jumped on the PC bandwagon and bought their 66 mhz PC when they first saw Doom

Yeah being free it helped but that wasnt the case for people, it was seeing this amazing game for the first time. Of course there were so many clones afterwards and yeah i hardly play Doom now but still like a quick go as it transports me back to the early 90's instantly.

I know we all have different views but some of the suggestions on this thread just seem to be written to be controversial.

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Post by Opa-Opa » Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:58 am

StarEye wrote: When I took my drivers license, my experience with Gran Turismo actually helped me when I took the slippery surface lessons. Why did it do that? Because, in real life, you don't usually get the chance to really race the car like in Gran Turismo. Drive just as fast as in real life, and Gran Turismo suddenly becomes very realistic. Try racing 100km/h into a turn in real life, and see how it goes? I can guarantee you that the exact same thing would happen in Gran Turismo.
In GT your car ignores gravity and physics and at the point where you would end up on your roof skiding down the track in a pool of your own blood upside down the car suddenly flips back upright and carrys on, at full speed and without any repercussions. Very realistic... :roll:
If you think that playing GT helped you pass your real driving test you are mistaken.

Oh and 100kph is 60mph, even the worst drivers on the racing circuit can turn into a bend on a racing track at 60mph with ease as long as the bend allows such speeds, in GT you can go round as fast you like no matter what the curvature of the bend because you know you will just bounce off another car or the barrier.
Gran Turismo The UNREAL driving simulator...

Enough of this poop, I think Smurf is right.. It's getting boring now...

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Post by psj3809 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:11 am

No wonder there are so many boy racer Suburu (sp) drivers about if they are learning their trade from Gran Turismo !

Heard it all now !

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revgiblet
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Re:

Post by revgiblet » Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:17 am

Smurph wrote:Manic Miner sucks!

Chuckie Egg sucks!

Jet Set Willy sucks!
GIVE THAT MAN A COOKIE
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psj3809
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Post by psj3809 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:33 am

See again i do find this thread confusing, if you are a newcomer and never played Manic Miner/Chuckie Egg/Jet Set Willy and heard people rave on about them (Elite also) then you may think god theyre rubbish.

But if you were a kid of 12 or so and these were some of the first games you ever played, eg Manic Miner then it blew away the games at the time. There were a few decent games, eg JetPac / Trans Am etc but Manic Miner totally blew everything away back then

Same for Knight Lore when it was released. If the thread was called 'games which dont stand the test of time' i could understand a bit more, i mean Elite i hardly play on an emulator now but back then it was incredible.

Jet Set Willy was like Knight Lore, a game you never could complete but you loved finding 'new rooms' !

Chuckie Egg was always playable as anything and was great on the BBC and then later the Speccy/C64 etc

Back in the early 80's hardly anyone slated these games, thats why i find it so difficult people slating them years later. Console fanboys turning up who werent around back in the early 80's i could see their point perhaps but for us oldies these games were brilliant ?

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broton
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Re:

Post by broton » Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:34 am

Robbo wrote:
broton wrote:
Nope. Kick Off 2 was pap. Fact.
If "pap" is defined as "the best ST/Amiga football game" then you are correct.
Pap, poo, pants, or just plain censored. Whichever word you choose to apply to Kick Off 2 it still has the same meaning... Kick Off 2 was massively over hyped and an awfully boring funless game, where SWOS was magnificent and still hasn't been bettered in ten years of newer footballing gaming.

"Kick Off Poo" :lol: :wink:
DO I take it you don't like Kick Off 2?
Lots of people who weren't good enough didn't like it either, it's nothing to be ashamed of - and I admit you probably have a point that SWOS was more fun (career mode was the best feature in any footy game). I still prefer KO 2 though.
Robbo wrote:FACT.
Here's a fact for you - your opinions are not fact, though you are completely entitled to them.

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Post by Smurph » Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:53 am

psj3809 wrote:See again i do find this thread confusing, if you are a newcomer and never played Manic Miner/Chuckie Egg/Jet Set Willy and heard people rave on about them (Elite also) then you may think god theyre rubbish.

But if you were a kid of 12 or so and these were some of the first games you ever played, eg Manic Miner then it blew away the games at the time. There were a few decent games, eg JetPac / Trans Am etc but Manic Miner totally blew everything away back then

Same for Knight Lore when it was released. If the thread was called 'games which dont stand the test of time' i could understand a bit more, i mean Elite i hardly play on an emulator now but back then it was incredible.

Jet Set Willy was like Knight Lore, a game you never could complete but you loved finding 'new rooms' !

Chuckie Egg was always playable as anything and was great on the BBC and then later the Speccy/C64 etc

Back in the early 80's hardly anyone slated these games, thats why i find it so difficult people slating them years later. Console fanboys turning up who werent around back in the early 80's i could see their point perhaps but for us oldies these games were brilliant ?
Not all of the oldies were goodies to us all at the time. I never liked any of the games I've mentioned, and I played them at the time they came out, or slightly after. I just don't see the attraction to those mentioned, especially Manic Miner. How many people actually got past that first screen? When a game is a challenge, I respect that, but when its so bastard hard that you don't see any of it, its a different matter. I agree that some of the games I loved back then are pants now (and some stand up excellently too, of course), but those aren't the ones I'm on about.
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revgiblet
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Re:

Post by revgiblet » Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:17 am

Smurph wrote:Not all of the oldies were goodies to us all at the time. I never liked any of the games I've mentioned, and I played them at the time they came out, or slightly after. I just don't see the attraction to those mentioned, especially Manic Miner. How many people actually got past that first screen? When a game is a challenge, I respect that, but when its so bastard hard that you don't see any of it, its a different matter. I agree that some of the games I loved back then are pants now (and some stand up excellently too, of course), but those aren't the ones I'm on about.
MORE COOKIES VICAR

I agree. I've already vented my spleen against Jet Set Willy on other threads but I can, hand on heart, honestly say that as a 12 year old I thought Manic Miner was average at best. No, worse than average. I loved Elite, Lords of Midnight, Last Ninja 2 and many other games but Jet Set Willy and Manic Miner have never been good games to me. It's not just that they were platformers either. Games like Castlevania: SOTN, Switchblade 2 and Leander are all great platform games. Jet Set Willy and Manic Miner are just poor. I know that's just my opinion, but unlike everybody else my opinion is actually objective fact.
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Post by psj3809 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:21 am

I agree Manic Miner was hard, quite different to have a game with a tough first screen !

Liked seeing how far i could get with that, was quite a challenge but i admit i didnt spend tons of time on that game but did appreciate it.

Jet Set Willy was weird, for some reason i enjoyed the game, just finding new rooms etc but never bothered to try to complete it not that i could anyway.

Elite was a game when you were addicted to it it was just brilliant, when i first saw screenshots i thought it looked rubbish but when i eventually played it wow i was addicted, epic game back then but of course not the type of game you would play on an emulator 20 years later.

Surprised come people didnt like Chuckie Egg, thought that game was great and still love the 'squelch' noise now.

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StarEye
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Re:

Post by StarEye » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:10 am

Opa-Opa wrote:
StarEye wrote: When I took my drivers license, my experience with Gran Turismo actually helped me when I took the slippery surface lessons. Why did it do that? Because, in real life, you don't usually get the chance to really race the car like in Gran Turismo. Drive just as fast as in real life, and Gran Turismo suddenly becomes very realistic. Try racing 100km/h into a turn in real life, and see how it goes? I can guarantee you that the exact same thing would happen in Gran Turismo.
In GT your car ignores gravity and physics and at the point where you would end up on your roof skiding down the track in a pool of your own blood upside down the car suddenly flips back upright and carrys on, at full speed and without any repercussions. Very realistic... :roll:
If you think that playing GT helped you pass your real driving test you are mistaken.

Oh and 100kph is 60mph, even the worst drivers on the racing circuit can turn into a bend on a racing track at 60mph with ease as long as the bend allows such speeds, in GT you can go round as fast you like no matter what the curvature of the bend because you know you will just bounce off another car or the barrier.
Gran Turismo The UNREAL driving simulator...

Enough of this poop, I think Smurf is right.. It's getting boring now...
Oh, my. You really are an ignorant one, aren't you? You know how many tracks have barriers? And what do you do when you're in front? No wonder you don't like the game when you never seem to use the brakes. You can't fault the game for being a bad player. By your definition, Doom sucks, because I suck at it.

And you can also apply the exact same "rule" that you apply to Gran Turismo in TOCA. Use the cars to bounce on. I did it all the time, but that was because I liked seeing glass and pieces of metal fly around me. I still won the race.

And I never said playing GT helped me get the driver's licence, I said the experience in GT kicked in when I took the slippery surface lessons (I don't know what you call it in english) - which are obligatory, but you don't need to "pass" it, you just have to have been through it. But when I did it, I thought immediately, "hey this feels like GT". I'm talking about the actual physics here. First tried with TCS turned on, switching lanes without spinning around and sliding off the road. Then with TCS turned off. I felt the difference, but I managed it just as well, because that's how GT feels too, when driving on snow in rally mode.

Finally, you seem to pretend Gran Turismo is just another racing game that will be forgotten, while ignoring the fact that it's already earned its legendary status. Also, the first game got a 10/10 in Edge, one of the few games to get that. Your sentiments agains Gran Turismo just doesn't remove the fact that Gran Turismo is one of the most important titles ever to have been released. It changed racing games forever, just like Doom kickstarted a genre. Doom itself, was basically a clone of Wolfenstein 3D, wasn't it? So it didn't invent anything really. It just did it better. Just like Gran Turismo did back then. Gran Turismo isn't perfect, but neither is Doom. EVERYONE (with an open mind that is, fanboys can't be helped) acknowledges how much the Gran Turismo series has meant to realistic racing games on console - but you somehow manage to completely ignore that fact.

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Post by Cornelius » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:11 am

will2097 wrote:Look at R4. 8 tracks 321 cars.
Holy cow! Are you serious?! This reinforces an earlier comment I made:

Too much cars, not enough game.

Driving simulations like that are very similar to flight sims or railroad sims. If you aren't into planes, trains or automobiles in real life it's just all extremely tedious. The gameplay is soulless. They're not really what you'd call entertaining. They don't even feel like games.

The trouble is though that the driving simulation genre is just hyped up too flipping much.
Mr Playstation 3 dude at this year's E3 wrote:It's Ridge Racer! Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiidge Racerrrrrrrrr!
It's just the hype. I don't have a problem with them otherwise because I don't go near them. In reality, just like Train sims or Flight sims they have a niche market. It really should be kept that way.

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Robbo
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Re:

Post by Robbo » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:22 am

broton wrote:
Robbo wrote:
broton wrote:If "pap" is defined as "the best ST/Amiga football game" then you are correct.
Pap, poo, pants, or just plain censored. Whichever word you choose to apply to Kick Off 2 it still has the same meaning... Kick Off 2 was massively over hyped and an awfully boring funless game, where SWOS was magnificent and still hasn't been bettered in ten years of newer footballing gaming.

"Kick Off Poo" :lol: :wink:
DO I take it you don't like Kick Off 2?
Lots of people who weren't good enough didn't like it either, it's nothing to be ashamed of - and I admit you probably have a point that SWOS was more fun (career mode was the best feature in any footy game). I still prefer KO 2 though.
Robbo wrote:FACT.
Here's a fact for you - your opinions are not fact, though you are completely entitled to them.
:lol: Oh dear oh dear you do seem to be taking my comments rather too seriously don't you? I'm sure most people would agree this thread was intended as a bit of a laugh. Nothing more. I mean, how can anyone say GTA's hype wasn't REALLY justified when the game is in fact genius? They'd have to be insane! :wink: (Yes that was a joke by the way!)

As for me not liking Kick Off 2... in fairness I actually played this a lot and was reasonably good at it, but once I came across Sensi I was swayed and in later years ('95 onwards) I discovered the mighty SWOS with it's career mode and Kick Off 2 was history. I'm afraid one of the things about footy games is (at least for me) when you find a better one the old one just isn't worth playing anymore. I have yet to find a footy game more fun to play than SWOS 96/97 and that my friend (at least to me) would be what I would call a FACT. :wink:

psj3809
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Post by psj3809 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:27 am

Did you ever play Player Manager ? Loved that game and played it forever ! My player was i think 62 (had to keep him playing otherwise you were a manager) and had the speed of a snail but an excellent game.

I was the reverse of you, got into Kick Off II so much , so did my friends, tried Sensi but was never keen on the small sprites and then got addicted to Player Manager

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Robbo
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Re:

Post by Robbo » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:46 am

psj3809 wrote:Did you ever play Player Manager ? Loved that game and played it forever ! My player was i think 62 (had to keep him playing otherwise you were a manager) and had the speed of a snail but an excellent game.

I was the reverse of you, got into Kick Off II so much , so did my friends, tried Sensi but was never keen on the small sprites and then got addicted to Player Manager
I never played Player Manager but from your description of the game it may be worth a look... I'll keep an eye on eBay methinks (I assume we're talking Amiga here? Will it work on a 600?)

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Re:

Post by Opa-Opa » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:14 am

StarEye wrote:
Oh, my. You really are an ignorant one, aren't you? You know how many tracks have barriers? And what do you do when you're in front? No wonder you don't like the game when you never seem to use the brakes. You can't fault the game for being a bad player. By your definition, Doom sucks, because I suck at it.

And you can also apply the exact same "rule" that you apply to Gran Turismo in TOCA. Use the cars to bounce on. I did it all the time, but that was because I liked seeing glass and pieces of metal fly around me. I still won the race.

And I never said playing GT helped me get the driver's licence

EVERYONE (with an open mind that is, fanboys can't be helped) acknowledges how much the Gran Turismo series has meant to realistic racing games on console - but you somehow manage to completely ignore that fact.
Oh my you really are a silly little boy aren't you..!!!
Yes I know that not all the race tracks have barriers and yes I know what to do when I am out in front. The thing is in GT I dont need to do anything at all when out in front, on some tracks you dont even need to steer, just bounce of the wall, how is that "real" or a "simulator"..?

Where did you get the idea I was a bad player from..? I know I could beat you at any racing game you care to mention, not boasting, not "biging myself" up, I just am that good.. I know there are people here who could beat me, there is always a bigger fish as a Jedi once said, but you would be no problem.
I never said GT was a bad game because I can't play it, I said it was a bad game because of all the faults and the fact Sony lied when they sold it to me.
It is NOT a "real driving sim"

You did say that playing GT helped you with your test.
StarEye wrote:When I took my drivers license, my experience with Gran Turismo actually helped me when I took the slippery surface lessons.
As for bouncing off the cars in TOCA your lying again. If you nudge the cars while racing thats fine, anything harder and not only do you suffer penaltys for dangerous driving you also damage the car so it does not perform and you will lose control of the car at any speed over 50-60mph (100kph) meaning there is no way you will win the race.

Saying EVERYONE acknowledges how much the Gran Turismo series has meant to realistic racing games on consoles is a very sweeping statement, I'm sure I'm not the only person who thinks there is very little realisim in GT and it has done very little to move the racing genre foward.

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