What is the most underrated console...

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Matt_B
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Re: What is the most underrated console...

Post by Matt_B » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:29 am

AlleyKat wrote:Yeah, I'd agree with that. The epic Saturn thread we had on here a while ago showed that a lot of people that dismiss it tend to do so out of stubbonness and not acually knowing what the machine has to offer, going as far as to disqualify most of its best games for being 2D/Import only.

It should be remembered that it did decent business in Japan and fared better against the PS1 & N64 than the Megadrive did against the Nes/Snes and PC Engine.
The "big in Japan" argument doesn't really work in the Saturn's favour though. Rather its saying that there was at least one major commercial market where it was very highly rated. Sure, it was comparatively underrated in the UK since it didn't sell as well here, but you could say the same for a whole bunch of other machines even including the NES.

On the whole, I'd think that any console that managed to shift 10 million units globally can't have been that underrated.

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Re: What is the most underrated console...

Post by C=Style » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:30 am

oli_lar wrote:I think the Windows PC is a true example. For example people bang on about shooters on the saturn, PC Engine all of which are harder/more expensive to emulate or track down etc than doujin PC shooters. Most of these doujin have english menus and many are free! Presumeably because people have been using Windows PCs for a good chunk of their life and I guess familiarity breeds contempt?
I think that's a bit different as that is just way too niche. I think it's born out of ignorance than anything else. But to be fair the topic was directed at consoles.
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Re: What is the most underrated console...

Post by will2097 » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:18 am

So, the five critera for underrated-ness are as follows?

1) Official support
2) Unofficial support
3) Lifetime sales.
4) Modern Perception.
5) Niche Perception.

And that's all I can think of. And no matter how you weight them, the Sega Saturn just isn't. I think calling into play the modern perception as a metric for underratedness doesn't work, because most systems pre-PS2 enter into the public perception realm of: 'A what?' and even if we could poll the general gaming public, statistically initial sales of the Saturn will reflect it's modern perception compared to the Playstation. i.e. anyone who actually owned a saturn will remember it fondly, if they didn't then they won't, largely because they read the Official Playstation magazine or something. However, ask that same person (while they are trying desperately to remember what a Saturn/PS1 was) what a CDi was or a CD32 or even a 3DO and you will get staticstially speaking, a lot of blank faces. So, if you were to ask a theoretical 100 people about the consoles, the chances are 1 ~ 5% will remember 3DO, while probably, 20 ~ 30% will remember the saturn. Using the other weights, there is no way on earth, that the Saturn can be construed as the most under rated console -- it's statistcially impossible. It was a good console, it sold well, people loved it, it had some cracking games and relative to that people will remember it fondly. What's underrated?

Which is a long way of saying, I am right, you are wrong, the 3DO is the most underrated console. ;)

(...and you have to understand I will keep arguing until my fingers bleed from typing on this...)

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Re: What is the most underrated console...

Post by C=Style » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:15 am

will2097 wrote:So, the five critera for underrated-ness are as follows?

1) Official support
2) Unofficial support
3) Lifetime sales.
4) Modern Perception.
5) Niche Perception.

And that's all I can think of. And no matter how you weight them, the Sega Saturn just isn't. I think calling into play the modern perception as a metric for underratedness doesn't work, because most systems pre-PS2 enter into the public perception realm of: 'A what?' and even if we could poll the general gaming public, statistically initial sales of the Saturn will reflect it's modern perception compared to the Playstation. i.e. anyone who actually owned a saturn will remember it fondly, if they didn't then they won't, largely because they read the Official Playstation magazine or something.
I'm not going to narrow down what the exact criteria is for underrated, but unless I'm missing something here, public perception plays a large part of it. If you don't think the Saturn is the winner here that's fine, but you're saying it shoudn't even be considered as underrated, I completely disagree. The majority of gamers dislike it and when it's directly compared to the Playstation (which is fair enough to an extent) it has a horrible reputation.

I do however know that one of the criteria of being underrated (and quite an important one) is that it has to have some redeeming features for it to be underrated in the first place, well the Saturn has plenty of these reasons, many many games that were never given the recognition they deserved. the 3D0 much less so.
will2097 wrote: It was a good console, it sold well, people loved it, it had some cracking games and relative to that people will remember it fondly. What's underrated?
You don't really think that though Will do you? All I've ever seen from you regarding the Saturn is you slagging it off, and I'm fine with that as you're far from the only one. But don't try and change your personal opinions just to suit the topic.

It didn't sell well over in the West at all, it was a incredible flop! It died a premature death, many top games never made it over to the West due to financial reasons and eventually the PS stamped all over it. Does that sound like a recipe for success? It's an underdog console, not many people play on it today and there is no BC on any machine that allows it to live on today.

I've already stated why I think it's underrated, lets just agree to disagree then.
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Re: What is the most underrated console...

Post by will2097 » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:09 pm

Eh? When did i censored it off? I was always staggered that hardest-of-all-hardcore fans never mention my favourite Sega Saturn console games: Clockwork Knight, Virtua cop, Virtua cop 2 and house of the dead but my main gripe is with the rose-tinted love of rubbish like Nights, the over-rating of Sega Rally (it's good but...) and the rubbish Daytona conversion. The big is mind you, the general rabid Saturn fanboy collective, and their amazing ability to ignore the blatantly obvious: the Saturn was inferior to the Playstation in almost every conceivable way. Saturn console was alright though. No problem with it at all. Actually quite liked some of the games. Used to play at Sega World a lot see, so I liked the arcade conversions the Saturn got.

And the only reason you don't wish to narrow down what the exact criteria for underrated is, because you know I'm right, and your argument wouldn't stand up to the obvious.

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Re: What is the most underrated console...

Post by C=Style » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:21 pm

will2097 wrote: And the only reason you don't wish to narrow down what the exact criteria for underrated is, because you know I'm right, and your argument wouldn't stand up to the obvious.
You're in a dream world if you honestly think I believe that.
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Re: What is the most underrated console...

Post by will2097 » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:35 pm

C=Style wrote:
will2097 wrote: And the only reason you don't wish to narrow down what the exact criteria for underrated is, because you know I'm right, and your argument wouldn't stand up to the obvious.
You're in a dream world if you honestly think I believe that.
You miss understand, I want to use a rudimentary scientific basis and create a formula based on statistical data, and you're dreaming. Just so we're clear ;) Of cause, you can prove anything with facts (and mathematics) so i appreciate you may choose not to accept. And that's understandable. A person in your position.

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Re: What is the most underrated console...

Post by Havantgottaclue » Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:32 pm

As a console with 1/3 of the CPU power of the PS1 and 2 1/2 times the price tag, the 3DO does appear to have been a console for someone with more money than sense ... of course, the CPU speed is only part of the story because both machines have very powerful graphics co-processors which bring them closer together. Nevertheless, I think when discussing whether old machines are over-rated or under-rated, you have to look at the decision the consumer was making at the time. The PS1 managed similar or better performance at a fraction of the cost of the 3DO, and it sold in higher numbers. Sounds fair enough to me, it strikes me as being neither over-rated nor under-rated - it's just a machine that couldn't compete given its specification and price tag.
Soon you will have forgotten all things: soon all things will have forgotten you. (Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 7)

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Re: What is the most underrated console...

Post by will2097 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:48 pm

Havantgottaclue wrote:As a console with 1/3 of the CPU power of the PS1 and 2 1/2 times the price tag, the 3DO does appear to have been a console for someone with more money than sense ... of course, the CPU speed is only part of the story because both machines have very powerful graphics co-processors which bring them closer together. Nevertheless, I think when discussing whether old machines are over-rated or under-rated, you have to look at the decision the consumer was making at the time. The PS1 managed similar or better performance at a fraction of the cost of the 3DO, and it sold in higher numbers. Sounds fair enough to me, it strikes me as being neither over-rated nor under-rated - it's just a machine that couldn't compete given its specification and price tag.
I actually agree. Things were moving pretty fast in 1990 ~ 1996. The 3DO was impressive. I mean, technically, compared to anything, even if money was immaterial, you could not spend money to get a better a console at the time. In 1993 an import 3DO was £700 which is $1200 ~ $1400 but by 1995 you could buy a Playstation for £299. I really, honestly, love that whole era: Atari Jag, Saturn, FM Towns, Playstation, CD32, Neo Geo, the legend that was the Ultra 64, it was an amazing time. In 50 years, the early 90s will be a legendary time in computing. All fanboyism aside, it was an amazing time. I don't really play games too much, but i do love the technology. It was such a leap in technology. 8Bit was barely dead, the 16Bit was merely a stop-gap, but by 32bit, CDROM, GPUs, parallel processing, 3D, interactive movies and the Net, it was an amazing flood gate. EVen today, right now, stand and look at Sega M2 or Namco System 21 and it's absolutely staggering. It's like the time that computers came alive, they lived. In my minds eye it's like the movie a 2001, all the apes staring at the monolith. It's like being dragged out of the jungle and faced with an iTouch and loving it. It's like, for me, being Leonardo Da Vinci staring at F14 Tomcat, and going, "That is f*cking awesome". The Sega and Namco computing boards are just jarring, almost alien. No technology, no game, no games console, no nothing really has ever impressed me that much. I was a good programmer, i could write fast and efficient code, I was a hobbiest, not a product-academic-coder, but, when I looked at Daytona running in a Sega World near Birmingham, I remember thinking to myself: How the F**k did they do that. Daytona plays like a sack of s**t, but as a spectacle it's really amazing. I love it. The same for any 3D game of that era, and any console. Custom hardware you see, regardless, is aces. It just depends how it is utilized.

As far as I am concerned anything produced between 1993 and 1997 is under-rated, under utilised and under appreciated:

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Re: What is the most underrated console...

Post by AlleyKat » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:47 pm

will2097 wrote:
In 50 years, the early 90s will be a legendary time in computing. All fanboyism aside, it was an amazing time. I don't really play games too much, but i do love the technology. It was such a leap in technology. 8Bit was barely dead, the 16Bit was merely a stop-gap, but by 32bit, CDROM, GPUs, parallel processing, 3D, interactive movies and the Net, it was an amazing flood gate. EVen today, right now, stand and look at Sega M2 or Namco System 21 and it's absolutely staggering.
This.
will2097 wrote: In my minds eye it's like the movie a 2001, all the apes staring at the monolith. It's like being dragged out of the jungle and faced with an iTouch and loving it. It's like, for me, being Leonardo Da Vinci staring at F14 Tomcat, and going, "That is f*cking awesome".
:lol:
speed/missile/double/laser/option/?

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Re: What is the most underrated console...

Post by Katzkatz » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:46 pm

I probably plump for the N64 as well. My favourites on were Goldeneye(you knew it would be on the list, but hey they did invent the sniper mode for FPS), Mario Kart, try out Mickey's Speedway USA as well, and Diddy Kong Racing. The N64 could output in S Video as well, so it might improve some people's displays if they are still using it. The Project 64 emulator for it is excellent though, try it out if you can.

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Re: What is the most underrated console...

Post by retrogamerdude » Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:15 pm

Underrated consoles for me are:

Dreamcast
Gamecube
N64
Retro Gamer For Life <3

Lately been playing:
Splatoon 2 (Nintendo Switch)

Last Purchase - Super Mario Odyssey (NS)

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Re: What is the most underrated console...

Post by The Laird » Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:26 pm

Without doubt its the Jaguar. Not nearly as bad as the sheeple like to make out.

I couldn't really consider a machine underated if it was successful.

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Re: What is the most underrated console...

Post by kiwimike » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:25 am

paranoid marvin wrote:Yeah , but the question was 'most underrated console ...amongst retro gamers' - the very fact that so many have in the past - and in this very thread - acknowledged it as a great console syrely discounts the 3Do?
3DO doesn't get nearly as much recognition as other consoles...which is why it probably gets my vote in this topic

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Re: What is the most underrated console...

Post by greenberet79 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:05 am

Neither of these were mentioned - and I've just read all six pages!

Game Gear - yes the batteries, yes some screen blurring blah blah blah. But at the time, wow, what a machine! Made my mate's Game Boys look like relics of the 70s. It can play COLOUR games! And the graphics were really something. I always liked the d-pad (was I the only one?). Games like Monaco GP, Shinobi 1 and 2, World Class Leaderboard, Kick Off, Castle of Illusion, the Sonics.

Game Boy Micro - ok, fair enough, mainly SNES imports, but so what? As if that's a bad thing! A huge library of games, and seemingly endless battery life.
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